General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[LSSBB]

Maybe the Holocaustics could tell us about the Jewish doctors in the camps and how they looked the other way while millions of Jewish children, women, and men were allegedly being murdered in gas chambers. Where are their testimonies?

Viktor Frankl. And he didn't look the other way.

 

[floghammer]

I think it's fairly well established that Einsatzgruppe Aegypten would have killed Jews in Palestine if things had gone differently at el Alamein.

What evidence can you display that fairly well establishes that einsatzgruppen aegypten would have killed jews in palestine if things had gone differently at el alamein? Do we have copies of orders to the eitsatzgruppen in afrika to kill jews like we have for einsatzgruppen in russia?

 

[Humanzee]

This might be a good start;
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3237529,00.html

 

[SnakeTongue]

Same places yours are.

You did see where that part of the article is titled "Organisatorischer Aufbau nach dem Geschäftsverteilungsplan vom März 1941", right? Tell me...was March 1941 before or after May 1942?

From May 1940 to May 1941 I was in the German navy. From September 1941 to May 1942 I was in Prague

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/2348-ps.asp

Did you notice that is a gap between May 1941 and September 1941?

In the first months of 1941 I was called back to Berlin. As they told me, Heydrich himself had requested me from Raeder. I now became head of division II D at the RSHA. In this division all technical matters were regulated. The division II D (technology) consisted of 6 or 7 sections.

It is June 1941 after "Organisatorischer Aufbau nach dem Geschäftsverteilungsplan vom März 1941"?

If his assignment was with Heydrich in Prague, why do you think he kept going back to Berlin so often?

Homesickness?

When Heydrich went to Prague as a Protector I accompanied him there to organize the local news network. (...)

http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/r/rauff.walter/Rauff-deposition-translation

See above for why that deposition completely torpedoes your argument.

Where?

You're not doing a very good job.

The "special cars" were gas vans.

Try to keep up.

Only in the dictionary of your imagination...

Sonder... special

http://germandeutsch.org/wort/sonder.../

der Wagen {m} car ; vehicle ; cart ; carriage ; trolley ; wagon, covered wagon ; wain ; bandwagon ; carriage ; coach

http://germandeutsch.org/wort/wagen/

Which is why the letter has nothing to do with the doctor, save for providing gas vans to the doctor's concentration camp. Which was Rauff's job.

You are affirming that the letter prove that Walter Rauff was responsible for "providing gas vans to the doctor's concentration camp" in Mauthausen?

Why would Walter Rauff provide a van for a concentration camp in Austria if he admitted that the supposedly "gas vans" were only operating in Russia?

https://maps.google.com/maps/place?...ed=0CA0Q-gswAA&sa=X&ei=1bGHT8bSEYLAyQTznOjeAg

In so far as I am aware these vans only operated in Russia.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/2348-ps.asp

Yes, the different offices of the RSHA often talked to each other. That's kind of what happens when you assign each office a separate area of responsibility...they then have to do things like coordinate with each other to get things done.

The "Standortarztes" of the "K.L. Mauthausen" ask the "Amt III (Deutsche Lebensgebiete – SD-Inland)" which ask the "Amt V (Verbrechensbekämpfung – Reichskriminalpolizeiamt)" which ask the "Amt II (Organisation, Verwaltung und Recht)" to produce "Sonderwagen"...

"In other words", the garrison doctor of the Mauthausen concentration camp ask the Office III (German spheres of life - domestic SD) which ask the V Office (Crime - Criminal Police) which ask the Office II (organization, management and law) to produce special vehicles...

What efficient and secret way to "coordinate with each other to get things done"!

A from B ask C ask D ask E to produce G...

Because he's not "addressing" them. He's referring to them in a single brief sentence, and then spending the rest of the letter talking about the specific things his office is responsible for.

Who is "them"? The "V D (Kriminaltechnisches Institut der Sicherheitspolizei)"?

Are you affirming that the author is not addressing the "V D (Kriminaltechnisches Institut der Sicherheitspolizei)"? If not, for who is the report "about the specific things his office is responsible for"?

So I'm wondering why you think citing a source which says Rauff was head of both Amt II D and Amt VI F in March of 1941 supports your claim that he wasn't head of Amt II D until more than a year later and couldn't have been in charge of II D in Berlin at the same time he was in VI F in Prague.

The source was cited only to prove that Walter Rauff was part of the "AII D (Technische Angelegenheiten)". The source itself do not prove the exactly period which Walter Rauff occupied both duties, but a cross reference of the data does:

From May 1940 to May 1941 I was in the German navy. From September 1941 to May 1942 I was in Prague. (...)

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/2348-ps.asp

From the beginning of 1940 onward I thus was with the navy for at least a year, clearing mines in the Channel. In the first months of 1941 I was called back to Berlin.

http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/r/rauff.walter/Rauff-deposition-translation

So, you expect me to produce documents every time you ask, but refuse to provide me with any documents in return?

How utterly typical for a denier.

Gather them? Didn't you do that when you made the "comparison" in your analysis? And why couldn't you describe what the "correct" office code should look like despite my repeated requests, if you were comparing the letter to all these other documents which had proper office codes?

There is not "correct" office code in forgeries...

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

I will try to guess:

(a) They migrated to Israel.
(c) They migrated to North-America.
(b) They migrated to Iran.

Now, explain how do you know that by "the end of the war there were six million Jews who disappeared from Europe".

Because that is how many of them showed up in Israel, North America and/or Iran from Europe, obviously.

So, why do you still have to guess about something that just about every single one of your opponents has identified as the most convincing evidence for the possible veracity of your claims?

Obviously the borrowed objection to headers on office documents isn't working for you. Why not explore another route? One that not a single Holocaust denier has walked us through to the end. Like the one that led to Israel, North-America and/or Iran for x amount of Jews out of the total of migrants that ended in a, b and/or c - though not necessarily in that order.

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

Maybe the Holocaustics could tell us about the Jewish doctors in the camps and how they looked the other way while millions of Jewish children, women, and men were allegedly being murdered in gas chambers. Where are their testimonies?

Where are their relatives? That is indeed a relevant question.

In local repetition. Much the same. No news from the East.

Only 1052 (1.75%) people are known to have survived from among the Jews who were deported from the Netherlands to Auschwitz (Including 181 survivors of the 3540 men between the ages of 15 and 50 selected at Kosel).
18 (0.05%) of the Jews survived deportation from the Netherlands to Sobibor.

That's what Auschwitz surviving Doctor Elie Aron Cohen wrote in his book "De negentien treinen naar Sobibor". That's what Sobibor surviving printer Jules Schelvis wrote in his "Vernietigingskamp Sobibor". They and many others compiled the records that you prefer to over-simplify.

"En als iemand het dan nog niet wil geloven, vraag ik hem doodeenvoudig waar dan mijn moeder is en mijn vader , mijn broers en de tienduizenden anderen."
That's from surviving doctor Eduard de Wind's book "Eindstation Auschwitz" written in 1945. Dr. de Wind went to Westerbork voluntarily. To assist in providing medical care for the inmates. Did you read about how he ended up on a deportation train?

Not all the deported people are known by name or place of birth but the vast majority is registered with such data. One of the exceptions. A mentally ill woman listed among the deported on the April 20, 1943 train to Sobibor, today still only known as "Eine Frau, Mietje, Geisteskrank" from that entry. Did the merciful nazis lose her case file for them not to know her last name and date of birth? Was her doctor with her on the train? Why were such mentally ill people on the train again? Were they going to build roads? Warm beds awaiting them at Sobibor? What kind of medical facilities could people like Dr. Tobias Soubice (Sobibor October 15, 1943) or Dr. Benjamin Nink (Unknown location November 30, 1943) offer people like "Mietje" on arrival? (Besides some medicinal Nederwiet)

The vast majority of the patients and medical staff of Apeldoornse Bos appear to have fallen of the charts at the other end as well. "A fine example of National Socialist health care" was the sarcastic reaction from Medisch Contact after Aus der Fuenten and his orderlies assisted in the speedy clearance of the facilities and arranged transportation for the patients. What was the reason why they couldn't just stay where they were, again, at that purpose built institution? The NSB had already publicly complained about the scandalously pleasant way the mentally ill were treated in the Netherlands, in deadly seriousness. Did they envision what would happen next?

In the NSB paper "Volk en Vaderland" from July 1942 these nazi collaborating publishers wrote that deportations had commenced and that they expected that deportations could be concluded by the first of June 1943. It was noted by Edwin Klijn that these collaborators were well informed about the scope of the deportations and he adds that these sources give indications about people's knowledge about the persecution of the Jews at that time.

600 registered Jewish doctors in the Netherlands. 400 survive. 200 perish. How many of their mentally ill patients returned from the East?

We know the journey of the survivors. (Binnen de Poorten, Verklaringen ... ) You're indeed not telling us anything we don't already know. In fact I can get my own copy of Butz to get the full serving of the denial you're feeding us piece-meal. Not a very nutritious meal even when digested in one chunk. Which, in a way, brings us back to Raul Hilberg and Dr. Elie Aron Cohen,
His mother:
Jetje Cohen-Behr, Groningen, 26 November 1883 - Auschwitz, December 3, 1942
His father:
Aron Cohen, Groningen October 27, 1879 - Auschwitz December 3, 1942
His sister:
Bertha Cohen-Cohen, Groningen, August 14, 1914 - Auschwitz September 3, 1942
His mother in law
Klaartje van der Woude-de Vries, Groningen June 22, 1878 - Auschwitz September 15, 1943
Father in Law:
Jacob Joachim Joseph van der Woude Leeuwarden May 9, 1872 - Auschwitz September 15, 1943
His wife
Aaltje Cohen-van der Woude, Groningen, October 8, 1912 - Auschwitz September 16, 1943
and their son
Aron Elie Cohen, Aduard, June 20, 1939 - Auschwitz, September, 16, 1943

We know some of these people were with him when he left Westerbork. We know they were no longer with him when he went from Auschwitz to Mauthausen nor when he continued his slow repatriation via Melk back to the Netherlands. As Butz wrote "He never saw these family members again."
If all the historians are wrong and you're right ... Where did they go? Tell us something we don't know. Why isn't Butz able to inform his readers about the fate of E.A. Cohen's relatives? What does Butz add to what E.A. Cohen et al already told us in considerably more detail?

We know that Dr. E.A. Cohen was arrested for independently trying to resettle himself to Sweden (Too far north? Not far enough East?). Butz called it "attempted to leave the Netherlands without authority" so we know that nazis frowned upon travel arrangements that didn't include some of their tour guides. They left after the February 10, 1942 Rademacher notification to the Bielefeld branch of the nazi travel agency and therefore we know Madagascar wasn't their final destination.

I know I called him Elias Alex Cohen before but that's because I mixed him up with one of his few surviving relatives (Elias Isak Alex Cohen: Sobibor, Maidanek, Skarzisko-Kamienna, Tjentochow, Buchenwald, Schlieben, Theresienstadt according to 1946 records - cited by a.o. L. de Jong and J. Schelvis). Their initials are -almost- the same so I'm sure any phone book searches weren't hampered by my unfortunate temporary mix up any more than a stenographer's transcript prevents people from finding Josef Buhle after reading Professor Browning's comments from the Lipstandt defense of history. Was I right in my deduction, ClaytonMoore? Kageki decided not to offer his correction or confirmation.

Dr. E.A. Cohen passed away in Arnhem in 1993 but perhaps you can locate his first son, A.E. Cohen? Or his cousin Abraham. His father, Elias Isak Alex Cohen, returned to the Netherlands. In 1947 he lived Cortingstraat 2 in Groningen for a while. Do you know what happened to his wife? Dr. de Jong references his statement as well in Encounter but leaves out that Dhr, Cohen would have preferred not to have been selected. In hindsight he said that he regrets surviving. Because almost his entire family was murdered he would have preferred to joint them. Can you arrange for a reunification of his relatives?

If not listed in the Dutch phone books they might have an unregistered land line, or only a mobile phone or … there might be some other "reasonable" alternative explanation for the absence from public records of certain Cohens residing undetected in the Netherlands. "The difference easily explained by immigration to South Africa, Americas and the UK." as was suggested by another Holocaust denier who -although fond of reviving old threads and dead Jews- has remained silent on the request for current and specific addresses of these unaccounted for survivors ever since. Miami beach was offered in an other thread here but when pressed for specifics the white noise faded.

Robert Cohen (another well known Auschwitz survivor, a photo of his arm with camp tattoo can be seen on his website) had a brother Freddy Cohen who also remains listed among the dead. Including on his personal card in the archives of the city of Amsterdam where it says: "Overleden te: Sobibor Op: 2 Apr. 43 Akte No.: A6 fol. 33v. This to the detriment of Iwan Demjanjuk, now convicted of being an accomplice in his murder. Can you really not see how finding them is in your own interest as well as theirs?

So, tell me, where did all these Cohens live who never returned to the Netherlands? Do you share the idea of MaGZ and SnakeTongue (Smallish edit for the TagTeam) … South Afrika? Miami Beach? Israel, Iran? Can you give me their addresses eventhough they can't - in spite of trying furiously to find them when they think no one is looking?

I know with absolute certainty that you can't answer. I know with absolute certainty that Denierbud offered nothing new. It is a load of bollocks. A re-packaging in a new format of the same old canards that failed to change the history books. Not because people like me aren't skeptical enough but because his conclusions don't follow from the evidence. They didn't when Butz put them in print the first time and they didn't when Denierbud got the ugly voice to blurt it out as narration to a series of videos.

Do you remember any of this, C. Moore?

 

[dafydd]

An interesting question.

I have been wondering how the Jews were identified and captured.

I don't believe you are serious. I used to live in the Jewish quarter in Antwerp and they weren't hard to identify.






http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/nazioccupation/jewishpersecution.html

 

[LemmyCaution]

Yes.

How the Jews were identified? What procedures the supposedly persecutors used to identify who was Jew and who was not?

There was any kind of a "Manual to Recognize Jews" utilized by the SS personnel?

In the fantasy world which SnakeTongue inhabits, first there was no legislation anywhere in Europe enacted in the 1930s and 1940s concerning who was or was not Jewish, nor were there any genealogical tests (e.g., on marriage) to determine one's "racial" status in the Reich. Members of the SS did not have to prove Aryan heritage back to great-great grandparents. There was no obligation for civil employees to show their lack of Jewish heritage by means of anything resembling an Ariernachweis. German children were not subjected to books and pamphlets warning them about Jews and their pernicious characteristics and influence - and they were encouraged to mingle and play with their Jewish schoolmates, who just happened to be shoved out of their schools, but that is only a minor detail. In this strange world, inhabited only by revisionists and SnakeTongue, who is not a revisionist, the war years happened, without any prior history, in a sort of Heideggerian thrownness, people just turning up on the scene: without histories or documents or connections. There were no Jewish congregations, for instance, and no Jewish community with membership lists. Jewish civic and charitable organizations did not exist - and if they did, they did not have members, and if they had members no lists of members were kept. It was not required of Jews to register their property - and no Jewish property was taken, and not a single hair on the head of a single Jew was ever hurt by any of the National Socialists or their chums. Neighbors in those days did not know one another, and if they did "Aryans" always protected their Jewish compatriots from denunciation or harm as shown in Jebwadne in Poland and at Lietukis garage in Kovno, Lithuania. Indeed, in SnakeTongue's world, in Eastern Europe every Jew was assimilated, and there were no Jewish neighborhoods and no Jewish culture. Eichmann's organization never existed, and if it did there was no postwar discovery of it and how it worked. At that time, there was no Jewish Question - and thus no one even thought about who might be Jewish - and Jews certainly hid their identity, always. When the Nazis decided to do something about the almost non-existent Jews, they did it suddenly, without any buildup - no anti-Semitic laws, no citizenship or marriage law, no Aryanization, no Kristallnacht, no emigration or expulsion schemes. No nothing. Just tabula rasa and complete blethering idiocy. Those are the conditions which prevailed in the time of WWII. There was no way for the National Socialists to so much as guess who might be Jewish - and certainly no way for SnakeTongue to have a clue. He doesn't, he's said, discuss secondary sources, you see, and so he is almost completely ignorant - and cannot think of a single way to remedy his condition. In fact, one might ask, who after all was Himmler?

 

[LemmyCaution]

Viktor Frankl. And he didn't look the other way.

Janusz Korczak. Oh, whoops, he and the children from his orphanage only got to spend an hour or so at Treblinka before being murdered by the Nazis there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janusz_Korczak

 

[dafydd]

Janusz Korczak. Oh, whoops, he and the children from his orphanage only got to spend an hour or so at Treblinka before being murdered by the Nazis there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janusz_Korczak

Well, the orphans should not have been so politically active. They posed a real threat to Hitler.

 

[tsig]

Where are you references?

I will put again what I have already provided to highlight how you like to support a forgery by producing deceptive explanations:



http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/2348-ps.asp



http://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichssicherheitshauptamt#section_2



Walter Rauff only admitted that he travelled back to Berlin, not that he was still chief of the section.



http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/r/rauff.walter/Rauff-deposition-translation



I am not here pleading you "to be taken seriously".

I am here to expose you.



You said "gas vans"? The document text address "special cars", not "gas vans".



Still, Walter Rauff office have nothing to do with the garrison doctor...

Did you even notice that the letter is supposedly directed to the "V D (Kriminaltechnisches Institut der Sicherheitspolizei)".



http://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichssicherheitshauptamt#section_2

Which amazing fictional tale you have to explain why would Walter Rauff address procedures of a garrison doctor and report to an office which is not responsible for the garrison doctor?



So?



My turn?

I pass.
You turn now.



You are trying to revert on me your failure to present the document which proves the promotion of Friedrich Pradel...



Ok.

I will gather the documents to show you.



I glad you enjoyed.

Right.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Well, the orphans should not have been so politically active. They posed a real threat to Hitler.

There was a denier who posted at RODOH before its demise and who at one point argued that Jewish children were dangerous as Vietcong, as he put it, and took more or less Himmler's stance on exterminating "enemy" children as a war-time necessity. Since SnakeTongue has yet to figure out who Himmler might be, this discussion is over the head of that particular non-revisionist, and I apologize for that. But this was Clayton's line of silliness, wasn't it?

 

[A'isha]

What do you think you will prove by guessing I "cribbed the notion" from Ingrid Weckert?

That, contrary to your claims, you haven't examined anything for yourself. You've merely gone and looked at what other deniers have said,

I myself did the cross examination of the data. I even translated the letter word by word.

No you didn't. You ran it through Google Translate.

I guess you do not know that the translation provided by Gordon McFree is missing important words. Do you?

Such as?

You are proposing that Walter Rauff was in more credible position to report his duty years after his original affidavit.

No, it's more credible because it's more detailed. His 1945 statement doesn't talk about events, places, names, dates, and duties he carried out as head of II D, which his Chile deposition does. For example, the role of his office and his subordinate in II D, Pradel, in the Barbarossa campaign in June 1941. His 1945 statement doesn't even say a single thing about what he was doing in the entire period from May to September 1941 - almost half a year!

The interrogation protocol was produced 27 years after the end of the second world war and do not have one single phrase of Walter Rauff affirming that he played a double role while under the command of Reinhard Heydrich.

Sure it does. He says he was assigned to II D as soon as he returned to the RSHA from the Navy in early 1941, and was head of II D all the way up until a few months after June 1942 (when Heydrich died), and during the period from September 1941 to May 1942, he also continued to assist with the technical department of the foreign intelligence office in Prague, dividing his time between Berlin and Prague.

I've just been rubbing her face in the documentary evidence for the forgery, and enjoying watching her flee from simple observations.

You haven't shown me a single document. In fact, when I asked you most recently, you passed on the opportunity!

Though I certainly agree that your observations are "simple", SnakeTongue.

 

[A'isha]

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/2348-ps.asp

Did you notice that is a gap between May 1941 and September 1941?

Yes, I do. So what do you think Rauff was doing during that time? What was his assignment? What were his duties? Who was head of Amt II D and Amt VI F during that time, if it wasn't Rauff?

It is June 1941 after "Organisatorischer Aufbau nach dem Geschäftsverteilungsplan vom März 1941"?

Yes. Which means that if your source says Rauff was head of II D in March 1941, he was probably also head of II D in June 1941 as well.

What does Rauff say he was doing in June 1941, in that 1945 statement? Oh, right...he doesn't.

Do you even know where the information in that Wiki page about the organization of the RSHA came from? It came from a document sent out by the head of Amt II (Organization, Administration, and Law) of the RSHA, Dr. Hans Nockemann, in Berlin, on March 1, 1941 to everyone from the Reichsminister of the Interior to Heydrich to the heads of the offices and Referaten on down to the heads of the security police forces in Paris and Brussels.

The document was a Geschaeftsverteilungsplan des Reichssicherheitshauptamtes, or Organization and Office Distribution Plan for the Reich Main Security Office, and was intended to represent as closely as possible the organization and command structure of the RSHA as of that date, March 1, 1941.

It can be found as Nuremberg Document 185-L, in volume XXXVIII of the Trial of the Major War Criminals before the International Military Tribunal (aka the "Blue Series" that was the official record of the Nuremberg Trials).

In this chart written in March of 1941, talking about the organization of the RSHA in March of 1941, SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Walter Rauff is listed as the Gruppenleiter of Gruppe II D, Technische Angelegenheiten. Underneath him, at Referat II D 3a, Kraftfahrwesen der Sicherheitspolizei, is "SS-Hstuf. Hptm.d.Schutzpol. Pradel" (ie, in March 1941, he was still a captain).

In this chart written in March of 1941, it also lists SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Walter Rauff as the Gruppenleiter of Gruppe VI F, Technische Hilfsmittel fuer den Nachrichtendienst im Ausland, meaning he held both positions long before September 1941 (when Heydrich went to Prague) and May 1942 (when he claimed to have been made head of II D in his 1945 statement).

That volume of documents used by the IMT, incidentally, also includes 219-L, a revised Geschaeftsverteilungsplan des Reichssicherheitshauptamtes sent out on October 1, 1943, and describing the RSHA's organization as of that date.

In it, we learn that after Rauff left II D to go shoot Jews in North Africa, that office was reorganized and renamed. Technische Angelegenheiten is now II C, and is under SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Hafke.

However, Friedrich Pradel is still in the technical office's motor pool (now renamed II C 3, Kraftfahrwesen). Only now, Pradel is listed as "SS-Stubaf. Maj.d.Sch.Pradel". In other words, he was promoted to Major between March 1941 and October 1943.

(The October 1943 document also reveals that SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Joerner is still the head of VI F, after taking over from Rauff when Rauff left for Africa)

http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/r/rauff.walter/Rauff-deposition-translation

I didn't ask you why he went to Prague in the first place. I'm asking you why he kept going back to Berlin, if his job was only in Prague.

Where?

Here.

Only in the dictionary of your imagination...

http://germandeutsch.org/wort/sonder.../

http://germandeutsch.org/wort/wagen/

Yes, they were "special vehicles". And what made them so "special" is that they were gas vans.

You are affirming that the letter prove that Walter Rauff was responsible for "providing gas vans to the doctor's concentration camp" in Mauthausen?

Why would Walter Rauff provide a van for a concentration camp in Austria if he admitted that the supposedly "gas vans" were only operating in Russia?

A) The letter never said that a gas van was operating in Mauthausen. It says that all available vans are currently in use, and Rauff will possibly see if one can be sent to Mauthausen after more vans are constructed, and advises in the meantime that the camp use bottled carbon monoxide to carry out any needed Jew-murdering.

B) As seen above, Rauff was less than forthcoming with full details in his 1945 statement.

The "Standortarztes" of the "K.L. Mauthausen" ask the "Amt III (Deutsche Lebensgebiete – SD-Inland)" which ask the "Amt V (Verbrechensbekämpfung – Reichskriminalpolizeiamt)" which ask the "Amt II (Organisation, Verwaltung und Recht)" to produce "Sonderwagen"...

"In other words", the garrison doctor of the Mauthausen concentration camp ask the Office III (German spheres of life - domestic SD) which ask the V Office (Crime - Criminal Police) which ask the Office II (organization, management and law) to produce special vehicles...

What efficient and secret way to "coordinate with each other to get things done"!

A from B ask C ask D ask E to produce G...

Yes. That's why historians, like Gerald Reitlinger, have commented about the bloated, inefficient, overly complex bureaucracy of the RSHA.

Who is "them"? The "V D (Kriminaltechnisches Institut der Sicherheitspolizei)"?

"Them" is the procedures of the camp doctor that Rauff refers the recipient of the letter to.

The source was cited only to prove that Walter Rauff was part of the "AII D (Technische Angelegenheiten)". The source itself do not prove the exactly period which Walter Rauff occupied both duties, but a cross reference of the data does:

And, as I have been showing you, every single other document and statement (even those made by Rauff himself!) contradicts the 1945 description of Rauff's duties and assignments.

This is standard "denier scholarship". If a single brief, incomplete sentence in a single statement is contradicted by other statements made by other people, other statements made by the same person, and multiple primary documents from a variety of sources, then obviously that means the brief, incomplete sentence is totally true and accurate and it's everything else that's wrong (and a forgery, to boot).

And that's why no one takes deniers seriously.

There is not "correct" office code in forgeries...

Yes, but you said you knew the office code in the March 26 1942 letter was wrong because "a quick comparison with official documents from the Third Reich demonstrate that sending code is completely wrong".

So describe the codes that are in those other "official documents". Tell me what about the codes on those documents differs from the one on the March 26 1942 letter.

 

[floghammer]

This might be a good start;
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3237529,00.html

Humanzee: do you have more supporting sources than an old Ynet article that says this fact has been uncovered by two historians who found something nobody had found yet?

 

[Wroclaw]

Viktor Frankl. And he didn't look the other way.

Funny, I was watching a YouTube video the other day. It was Ahmed Tibi, MD, who has been a member of the Knesset in Israel for around a decade,* maybe more, and he was addressing the Knesset on Yom ha-Shoah and telling the story of a woman who survived Auschwitz because, although she had been "chosen" by Mengele at the ramp when she got to Birkenau, one of Mengele's assistants, a Jew, prevented her from being killed by fudging her files. She was sent for labor instead. When they encountered each other years later in Israel, she hated the doctor for being a collaborator; it was only then that she found out he's saved her life. They got married.**

He too did not look the other way.

Others, like Myklos Nyszli (sp?) collaborated more or less, but under the threat of death, which evokes the question (yet again) of whether Clayton has ever had a gun to his head.




*To the chagrin of our resident Jew-haters, Israel remains among a small minority of countries with Arab populations of 20% or more in which those Arabs can actually vote and be represented in the government.

** After the video, Tibi was interviewed by Yair Lapid (who may go on to be PM of Israel someday), and he discussed the need for Palestinians to appreciate what the Jews have been through as a people to understand why they are so invested in Israel, noting as well two things: (1) It is wrong to compare what the Palestinians have been through to the Holocaust, as the Holocaust was infinitely worse; and (2) Nevertheless, it is the duty of the Israelis to appreciate what they have put the Palestinians through, as it's the only way to achieve peace. Tibi is a good, good man, of inestimable character. There should be more Israelis, Jews and Arabs both, like him.

 

[Wroclaw]

Humanzee: do you have more supporting sources than an old Ynet article that says this fact has been uncovered by two historians who found something nobody had found yet?

Egads! Historians doing what their job is!!

 

[Wroclaw]

Presumably, BTW, they used more than one source:

http://www.amazon.com/Nazi-Palestine-Plans-Extermination-Jews/dp/1929631936

(see pp. 226-242)

 

[Spui]

** After the video, Tibi was interviewed by Yair Lapid (who may go on to be PM of Israel someday), and he discussed the need for Palestinians to appreciate what the Jews have been through as a people to understand why they are so invested in Israel, noting as well two things: (1) It is wrong to compare what the Palestinians have been through to the Holocaust, as the Holocaust was infinitely worse; and (2) Nevertheless, it is the duty of the Israelis to appreciate what they have put the Palestinians through, as it's the only way to achieve peace. Tibi is a good, good man, of inestimable character. There should be more Israelis, Jews and Arabs both, like him.

That's very interesting- I remember an Israeli professor giving a lecture at my student associaion a few years back and he told us he would take Palestinians on a tour of Auschwitz and Israelis on a tour of a refugee camp, to make both sides empathise with each other.

 

[Wroclaw]

Yeah, it's all about having each side understand the other's narrative.