General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[SnakeTongue]

Perhaps I'm being obtuse, but what does all this have to do with the claim that Hitler gassed mostly political prisoners?

That is part of a debate about a forged letter which ANTPogo had insisted to support as primary evidence of a mass extermination plan executed with mobile gas chambers.

 

[OCaptain]

An interesting question.

I have been wondering how the Jews were identified and captured.

Same way your ilk identifies them now when you want to trot out your "the Jews control Hollywood" meme - their names end in -stein, -berg, -baum, etc.

 

[LemmyCaution]

An interesting question.

I have been wondering how the Jews were identified and captured.

Seriously?

 

[Mudcat]

Same way your ilk identifies them now when you want to trot out your "the Jews control Hollywood" meme - their names end in -stein, -berg, -baum, etc.

My maternal grandfather's name was Aumann and my mom claims he was Jewish. But trust me, the religious Jews aren't that hard to distinguish from the normal population (at least I don't think so, now I've lived in a Jewish community for nearly a year now).

 

[BaaBaa]

That is part of a debate about a forged letter which ANTPogo had insisted to support as primary evidence of a mass extermination plan executed with mobile gas chambers.

Your allegation that it was forged was trumped by evidence that it was not. Until you can provide greater detail on *how* it was forged, it remains an allegation.

 

[tsig]

I'm guessing that only a fuhrerbefehl, signed, notarized, witnessed and said signing photographed will satisfy them.

But It won't count because there's no motion picture footage.

Teh answer would be "We know Hitler didn't work that way", followed by a defense of Hitler because there's no written order.

 

[tsig]

Hi all,

I'm not an expert, but is SnakeTongue giving lessons in JAQing off?

360 degree ones.

 

[A'isha]

Where are you references?

Same places yours are.

http://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichssicherheitshauptamt#section_2

You did see where that part of the article is titled "Organisatorischer Aufbau nach dem Geschäftsverteilungsplan vom März 1941", right? Tell me...was March 1941 before or after May 1942?

Walter Rauff only admitted that he travelled back to Berlin, not that he was still chief of the section.

If his assignment was with Heydrich in Prague, why do you think he kept going back to Berlin so often?

Homesickness?

http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/r/rauff.walter/Rauff-deposition-translation

See above for why that deposition completely torpedoes your argument.

I am not here pleading you "to be taken seriously".

I am here to expose you.

You're not doing a very good job.

You said "gas vans"? The document text address "special cars", not "gas vans".

The "special cars" were gas vans.

Try to keep up.

Still, Walter Rauff office have nothing to do with the garrison doctor...

Which is why the letter has nothing to do with the doctor, save for providing gas vans to the doctor's concentration camp. Which was Rauff's job.

Did you even notice that the letter is supposedly directed to the "V D (Kriminaltechnisches Institut der Sicherheitspolizei)".

Yes, the different offices of the RSHA often talked to each other. That's kind of what happens when you assign each office a separate area of responsibility...they then have to do things like coordinate with each other to get things done.

Which amazing fictional tale you have to explain why would Walter Rauff address procedures of a garrison doctor and report to an office which is not responsible for the garrison doctor?

Because he's not "addressing" them. He's referring to them in a single brief sentence, and then spending the rest of the letter talking about the specific things his office is responsible for.

So?

So I'm wondering why you think citing a source which says Rauff was head of both Amt II D and Amt VI F in March of 1941 supports your claim that he wasn't head of Amt II D until more than a year later and couldn't have been in charge of II D in Berlin at the same time he was in VI F in Prague.

My turn?

I pass.

You turn now.

So, you expect me to produce documents every time you ask, but refuse to provide me with any documents in return?

How utterly typical for a denier.

Ok.

I will gather the documents to show you.

Gather them? Didn't you do that when you made the "comparison" in your analysis? And why couldn't you describe what the "correct" office code should look like despite my repeated requests, if you were comparing the letter to all these other documents which had proper office codes?

 

[tsig]

Yet, not one single reference to a primary evidence to support your fictional explanation for a forgery.

I supposed most of them died from diseases.

I am asking for primary evidence, not giving lessons...

Similar to the one-line argument with no references which you often do...

 

[tsig]

Quite nicely, too.

As to the mass gassing of millions of political prisoners, it is a truly silly discussion point, so far from reality is SnakeTongue's gaffe - and at this point I too find myself struggling to understand what SnakeTongue is going on about.

Apparently, among his other fine qualities, SnakeTongue is unable to admit an error when he makes one. And when referred to primary evidence, he will say no one has shown him any primary sources OR he will claim that a primary source is a secondary work.

Probably heard the term 'primary sources' and now uses is as a term of distraction.

 

[A'isha]

Ooops, SnakeTongue!

I found out where you cribbed the notion that Rauff's 1945 affidavit proves that all the documents about his role in the creation and use of gas vans are forgeries from.

It's a major point in denier Ingrid Weckert's nonsense book "The Gas Vans: A Critical Assessment of the Evidence," pp. 14/34 and Section 3.1 "Nuremberg Document PS-501":

Moreover, Rauff says:

"I was chief of this technical section [at the RSHA, Group II D] from February 1940 to March 1940. From May 1940 to May 1941 I was in the German Navy. September 41 to May 1942 I was in Prague. I then became chief of the section again from May 1942 to June 1942."

In other words, during his entire time of service at the RSHA he was chief of the technical section twice, each time for only one or two months: from February to March 1940 and from May to June 1942. Therefore he cannot possibly have played the role attributed to him in supplying the 'gas vans'. According to the literature supporting the Holocaust, Rauff had worked to supply the 'gas vans' as of autumn 1941, in other words at a time when he was not even in Berlin.

And, like you, Weckert completely ignores Rauff's later deposition made in Chile, in which Rauff describes a very different involvement in Amt II D and the creation and deployment of the gas vans than he described in 1945.

 

[SnakeTongue]

SnakeTongue, at the end of the war there were six million Jews who disappeared from Europe. What happened to them?

I will try to guess:

(a) They migrated to Israel.
(c) They migrated to North-America.
(b) They migrated to Iran.

Now, explain how do you know that by "the end of the war there were six million Jews who disappeared from Europe".

 

[SnakeTongue]

In other words, Rauff was not telling the whole story about his RSHA service in his 1945 statement, and elaborated quite a bit in his later deposition...including the full details of just how long he was involved in Amt II D!

You are proposing that Walter Rauff was in more credible position to report his duty years after his original affidavit.

Let's compare the dates:

TRANSLATION OF DOCUMENT 2348-PS

Statement of Standarten Fuehrer Walther Rauff made on 19 October 1945

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/imt/2348-ps.asp

Embassy Of the Federal Republic of German

Santiago

Santiago, 28 June 1972
RK Sk 1600

Interrogation Protocol

http://nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/r/rauff.walter/Rauff-deposition-translation

The affidavit was produced in the same year which the second world war finished.

The interrogation protocol was produced 27 years after the end of the second world war and do not have one single phrase of Walter Rauff affirming that he played a double role while under the command of Reinhard Heydrich.

"In other words", Walter Rauff was in more credible position to provide accurate information in his affidavit of 1945 than in his interrogation of 1972.

I've just been rubbing her face in the documentary evidence for the forgery, and enjoying watching her flee from simple observations.

 

[SnakeTongue]

Is four million dead not still a Holocaust? I don't get it.

How do you know that I am addressing the "Holocaust" if I never cited that word in the artwork.

Do not answer me. Think.

That is art.

 

[SnakeTongue]

Ooops, SnakeTongue!

I found out where you cribbed the notion that Rauff's 1945 affidavit proves that all the documents about his role in the creation and use of gas vans are forgeries from.

It's a major point in denier Ingrid Weckert's nonsense book "The Gas Vans: A Critical Assessment of the Evidence," pp. 14/34 and Section 3.1 "Nuremberg Document PS-501":

And, like you, Weckert completely ignores Rauff's later deposition made in Chile, in which Rauff describes a very different involvement in Amt II D and the creation and deployment of the gas vans than he described in 1945.

What do you think you will prove by guessing I "cribbed the notion" from Ingrid Weckert?

I myself did the cross examination of the data. I even translated the letter word by word.

I guess you do not know that the translation provided by Gordon McFree is missing important words. Do you?

Do not waste your time trying to prove that I "cribbed the notion" about the forgery. I know every detail of that letter.

 

[SnakeTongue]

Same way your ilk identifies them now when you want to trot out your "the Jews control Hollywood" meme - their names end in -stein, -berg, -baum, etc.

Excuse me, but where in the JREF Forum I made a statement where I mentioned the "the Jews control Hollywood" meme?

I am not aware that I had a debate about such idea.

 

[SnakeTongue]

Seriously?

Yes.

How the Jews were identified? What procedures the supposedly persecutors used to identify who was Jew and who was not?

There was any kind of a "Manual to Recognize Jews" utilized by the SS personnel?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Excuse me, but where in the JREF Forum I made a statement where I mentioned the "the Jews control Hollywood" meme?

I am not aware that I had a debate about such idea.

You gotta love how this is trotted out as if it is antisemetic to speak the truth about Hollywood. There's a multitude of Jewish sites that state/brag about the dominance Jews have in America.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Maybe the Holocaustics could tell us about the Jewish doctors in the camps and how they looked the other way while millions of Jewish children, women, and men were allegedly being murdered in gas chambers. Where are their testimonies?

 

[SnakeTongue]

Your allegation that it was forged was trumped by evidence that it was not. Until you can provide greater detail on *how* it was forged, it remains an allegation.

"Trumped by" what?

"Evidence"?

Which "evidence"?

Not "evidence" from you, of course, which did not offered one single piece of reference to prove the forgery is not a forgery...