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General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

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Clayton Moore said:
Elizabeth Dole, president of the American Red Cross, and wife of former Sen. Bob Dole, said that the official death records from Auschwitz from Soviet Archives listed 70,000 deaths from all causes.
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When did she say this? How did she obtain the figure? Whose deaths do you think were recorded?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Reitlinger's book, The Final Solution.
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That is not a source document. I can read denier websites as well as you. I want to know about Himmler's document or the document that records Himmler's categorical order. I want to be able to read the whole document. Where can I do that?


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Edited for Rule 0.
 
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You do realize that the gassed were never incarcerated as prisoners. The were selected as soon as they got off the trains and gassed immediately. Those that were left were kept alive as a forced labor workforce. i could see that Himmler would be getting a bit concerned about their slave labor dying at too high a rate.
 
LogicFail said:
You do realize that the gassed were never incarcerated as prisoners. The were selected as soon as they got off the trains and gassed immediately. Those that were left were kept alive as a forced labor workforce. i could see that Himmler would be getting a bit concerned about their slave labor dying at too high a rate.
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Indeed, in the concentration camp system - as opposed to the death camps - between September 1942 and April 1943 the number of prisoners doubled, from 110,000 to 203,000. This followed Himmler's agreement with Thierak concerning the liquidation of the asocials through work in Himmler's camp system and Himmler's increasing focus on using the prison population for labor. (Longerich, Heinrich Himmler, p 687) Pohl had revamped his organization into the WVHA in spring 1942, "To ensure better utilization in the camps" for which he was responsible (Hilberg, p 924), which included Auschwitz and Majdanek, directly under the Camps Inspectorate (Glucks' organization) but not Chelmno (established by Reichsstatthalter Greiser) and the AR camps (subordinate to Globocnik reporting directly to Himmler). (Pohl's apparatus, however, claimed jurisdiction over the loot taken in the AR camps from victims.) "The exploitation of the inmate labor supply," wrote Hilberg (p 925), "now became the very reason for the existence of the concentration camps." A serious labor shortage in the middle of 1942 prompted this new policy; "The labor shortage became a crisis in the second half of 1942" (Blatman, The Death Marches, p35) as the number of available German workers shrank, Soviet POWs were killed in massive numbers, and the Germans undertook a series of actions, including forced labor for foreign workers, to increase the labor force.

Thus, the Nazis sought to expand the labor force through Sauckel's "recruitment" and forced labor programs effort especially in the occupied territories (Sauckel's appointment as plenipotentiary for labor came also in 1942, in March) and expansion of captive labor programs under Himmler, all these labor-focused efforts during 1942, the time of the quotation attributed to Himmler.

The concentration camps were an increasingly important source of labor beginning in 1942 and then massively so after that, and the authorities took steps to ensure that the inmates were available for work. They not only increased the inmate population as noted, but they also tried to go a bit easier on inmates thereby making those in the camps reasonable facsimiles of productive workers. In a circular issued by Glucks to all camp doctors on 28 December1942, during this period of increasing prisoner population, Glucks explained clearly the purpose for "relaxation" of conditions and the goal of reducing deaths: "The best doctor is the one who maintains the capacity of inmates to work at the highest possible level. Now more than ever before, camp doctors must keep tabs on the diet of the prisoners. . . ." (quoted in Sofsky, The Order of Terror, p 321) On 20 January 1943, Glucks issued another circular on the topic, "I hereby make all camp commandants and directors of camp administration personally responsible for maintaining the working capacity of the prisoners." (quoted in Sofsky, p 322)

I know what deniers want to say and how they try to use this quotation, conflating concentration camps and death camps - Himmler decided to stop killing so many inmates, they say, presto no Final Solution - but there was no conflict between the policy of reducing deaths in the concentration camps, to expand the labor force, and the Final Solution, to exterminate other prisoners as Jews. The prisoners referenced in Glucks' circulars, for example, were those in the camp system, not those selected for extermination. That said, the labor policy extended to some Jews as well as to the concentration camp prisoners, in Goebbels famous formula whereby about sixty percent of the Jews were to be liquidated and "only forty percent can be put to work," for the time being.
 
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Some of the Holocaust as usual lies.


Robert Faurisson observes,

"Elie Wiesel won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1986. He is generally accepted as a witness to the Jewish ‘Holocaust,’ and, more specifically, as a witness to the legendary Nazi extermination gas chambers...."

But in what respect is Elie Wiesel a witness to the alleged gas chambers? By what right does he ask us to believe in that means of extermination? In an autobiographical book that supposedly describes his experiences at Auschwitz and Buchenwald, he nowhere mentions the gas chambers. He does indeed say that the Germans executed Jews, but...by fire; by throwing them alive into flaming ditches, before the very eyes of the deportees! No less than that! Here Wiesel the false witness had some bad luck.

Forced to choose from among several Allied war propaganda lies, he chose to defend the fire lie instead of the boiling water, gassing, or electrocution lies. In 1956, when he published his testimony in Yiddish, the fire lie was still alive in certain circles. This lie is the origin of the term Holocaust. Today there is no longer a single historian who believes that Jews were burned alive. The myths of the boiling water and of electrocution have also disappeared. Only the gas remains.
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http://www.israelect.com/reference/WillieMartin/HOLOHOAX.htm
 
Clayton Moore said:
That's because they view and deal with all non Jews as sub human. The rules of social and legal fairness that non Jews lived by in Germany were out the window as far as German Jews were concerned. That's why Germany wanted them out of Europe.

An relatively recent day example of this type fleecing goes would be when Ted Turner married Jane Fonda and got involved with the sharks at Time Warner. Teddy Goyim never had a chance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Turner#Time_Warner_merger




That's the way Jews flimflamed to virtually control Germany in the 1930s.
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Even today Jews are licensed to spew hate and disdain for non Jews because of the Holocaust.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35ixBASYA9c
 
Can you take a break from slamming Jews and post a reference to the Himmler document you tried to use?
 
LemmyCaution said:
Can you take a break from slamming Jews and post a reference to the Himmler document you tried to use?
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I'm not slamming Jews I'm slamming liars who happen to be Jewish.

You should stop prefixing or suffixing everything with you hate Jews. It's so lame. After all you're the one who thinks Jewish people were stupid since they didn't catch on that millions were being gassed in the camps and kept going to the camps by the millions.
 
Clayton Moore said:
I'm not slamming Jews I'm slamming liars who happen to be Jewish.

You should stop prefixing or suffixing everything with you hate Jews. It's so lame. After all you're the one who thinks Jewish people were stupid since they didn't catch on that millions were being gassed in the camps and kept going to the camps by the millions.
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I don't prefix or suffix everything with "you hate Jews." I generally get a good laugh out of the ignorance and antics of deniers - and state my views on the history.

That aside, anyone who generalizes back from some gobbing ultra-Orthodox loonies to German Jews needs to take a long, serious look at himself in the, uh, mirror.

And, of course, and I've posted about this enough times in the JREF threads, I don't think Jews were stupid, I think they were overpowered. Those are different concepts, unless you think crime victims are invariably stupid. But we digress.

The reference, please, the reference.
 
LogicFail said:
You do realize that the gassed were never incarcerated as prisoners. The were selected as soon as they got off the trains and gassed immediately.
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That's just a fabrication. Kinda like explaining to little children when they wake up that the Easter Bunny was here and left.
 
Clayton Moore said:
I'm not slamming Jews I'm slamming liars who happen to be Jewish.

You should stop prefixing or suffixing everything with you hate Jews. It's so lame. After all you're the one who thinks Jewish people were stupid since they didn't catch on that millions were being gassed in the camps and kept going to the camps by the millions.
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Oh, Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick: This again?
 
Clayton Moore said:
I'm not slamming Jews I'm slamming liars who happen to be Jewish.
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But *only* liars who happen to be Jews.

While ignoring liars such as yourself who *about* the Jews.

For example, you *still* have yet to point out a single lie on the THHP website.

Or bothered to support your lie that "Most, way above 90%, died of disease."

You even posted Faurisson's lie that "Elie Wiesel ... is generally accepted as a witness to ... the legendary Nazi extermination gas chambers...." when Buna, the camp he was in, has never been said to have gas chambers.

Not to mention your most recent tap dance that "The rules of social and legal fairness that non Jews lived by in Germany were out the window as far as German Jews were concerned."

Yes, you *are* slamming Jews with these lies, and pretending that it's okay for you to do so, since they are only untermenschen who happen to control the world...
 
Clayton Moore said:
That's just a fabrication. Kinda like explaining to little children when they wake up that the Easter Bunny was here and left.
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Then you should be able to document where they all went. That they were shipped to the death camps is more than amply documented, why not after that?

BTW, yet another question you ducked: Which specific "rules of social and legal fairness" did Anne Frank "throw out the window"? Korczak and his kids?

Or owned up to your lie that "even historians ... had to admit that no ... mass exterminations took place in the German camps on German soil"
 
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