Moderated The NYPD and Molten Concrete

[Rollex]

What is your point. The report says high temperature.

No. It says "extremely high temperatures during the collapse" and that " caused lead to....volatilize"

Do you not see those words in the paper? Please answer my question as to what temperature does lead volatilize at?

Stop tap dancing, stop the gish gallop, stop moving the goal posts. Come out and state your theory on this subject.

I find a lot of things unsettling about 9/11 and I have a personal mission to get to as close to the real truth as possible; wherever it may lead...not wallow in the mire of denial. Reports from the basements sub level 4 and 3 of explosions before the plane impacts. First responders attesting to molten metal "flowing like lava" (FDNY Capt.) and of course the third building really bugs me; however, I believe in a just God, and if all of these things did happen it means the world as I know it is not as I know it. I don't know if I want to know.

Did concrete melt.

According to the NYPD it did.

Maybe you could look up how lead could be on stuff... Maybe not.
How do you know Spenelli did it? Is that Beth related to Beth Spinelli? Which one did it?

I've tried and was stonewalled. She left to have kids and I can't locate her. No facebook. Nothing.

 

[Kid Eager]

How so?...and its not my logic; its RJ Lee's. Are you smarter than RJ Lee?

False equivalency:

1. "Smartness" is not synonymous with "accuracy"
2. A quote mine being called illogical is not equivalent to the source of the quote being illogical.

 

[Kid Eager]

No. It says "extremely high temperatures during the collapse" and that " caused lead to....volatilize"

Do you not see those words in the paper? Please answer my question as to what temperature does lead volatilize at?



I find a lot of things unsettling about 9/11 and I have a personal mission to get to as close to the real truth as possible; wherever it may lead...not wallow in the mire of denial. Reports from the basements sub level 4 and 3 of explosions before the plane impacts. First responders attesting to molten metal "flowing like lava" (FDNY Capt.) and of course the third building really bugs me; however, I believe in a just God, and if all of these things did happen it means the world as I know it is not as I know it. I don't know if I want to know.




According to the NYPD it did.




I've tried and was stonewalled. She left to have kids and I can't locate her. No facebook. Nothing.

Why on earth are you asking questions here that with 15 seconds of Googling you could find the answers for?

 

[ozeco41]

False equivalency:

1. "Smartness" is not synonymous with "accuracy"
2. A quote mine being called illogical is not equivalent to the source of the quote being illogical.

That's part of it.

Actually I was referring to his logic. I said "Your" and I meant "your".

...and I decided not to spoon feed the obvious.

And beachnut has raised a lot more relevant points

 

[beachnut]

How so?...and its not my logic; its RJ Lee's. Are you smarter than RJ Lee?

RJ Lee never mentioned the temperatures (numbers) you posted. There were tons of lead in the WTC, the big source might be, or was battery back up for computers; acid and lead, what a mess, thousands of them. Industrial back up systems for wall street. Lead was in stuff. Did you read the RJ Lee report?
You posted temperatures not in the report. Where did you get them from? Google?

RJ Lee found no thermite. RJ Lee is a dead-end for the silly thermite fantasy.
Note: RJ Lee study on dust was in one building, and was conducted after the WTC clean up.

No. It says "extremely high temperatures during the collapse" and that " caused lead to....volatilize"

Office fires are extremely high temperatures. High temperatures are 110 degrees in the desert, or 115 in Saudi Arabia. Fire is extremely high temperature. It is relative.

Do you not see those words in the paper? Please answer my question as to what temperature does lead volatilize at?

Lead does not have to boil to be volatilized - did you miss the office fires, and E=mgh was released. The office fires had more heat than 2,500 TONS of thermite; the silly fantasy of themite made up by nuts in 911 truth. Rockwool had lead in it back in the 70s, did you look up how rock-wool is made? Like finding food in my refrigerator, and being surprised, unsettling...

I find a lot of things unsettling about 9/11 and I have a personal mission to get to as close to the real truth as possible; wherever it may lead...not wallow in the mire of denial. Reports from the basements sub level 4 and 3 of explosions before the plane impacts. First responders attesting to molten metal "flowing like lava" (FDNY Capt.) and of course the third building really bugs me; however, I believe in a just God, and if all of these things did happen it means the world as I know it is not as I know it. I don't know if I want to know.

Denial? lol, you think concrete melted. What does it mean, a museum made a mistake. Not unsettling, it is called human, a mistake.

No explosives; don't be confused by simile.

No melted steel, but other metals melt in office fires.

The unsettling stuff, murder of thousands by 19 idiots mislead by a spoiled rick kid, UBL. ...

According to the NYPD it did.

NYPD? No, according to a museum. A museum, not NYPD.

911 truth - 19 terrorists did an end run to be murderers. Cutting throats, and killing to take planes, killing with our planes. Terrorism on the cheap - faking hijackings to steal weapons; KE weapons, and 66,000 pounds of jet fuel to start the most intense office fires.

11 years, the answer is 19 terrorists did 911.
Practice cutting throats - 72 goats
Flight training - thousands of dollars (but what the whole world does, come to the USA for the best flight training)
Room/Board/Tickets - thousands of dollars
Killing aircrew to steal 440 million dollars worth of Aircraft - evil
Crashing and killing many - extra credit evil
Finding 19 idiots to do 911... where do find people almost as dumb as those who fall for 911 truth claims?

The OP was a rant about NYPD; the melted concrete mistake was not the main theme for Yankee451. http://yankee451.com/2012/07/15/963/
Do you have comments on this web page which was the original OP? Are you on the no-plane wagon? Most the OP, once removed, was off topic anti-police nonsense.

I find a lot of things unsettling about 9/11 and I have a personal mission to get to as close to the real truth as possible; wherever it may lead...not wallow in the mire of denial. ...

The record for figuring out 911, minutes; done by the Passengers on Flight 93. 11 years gone, 911 truth can't get anything right about 911.

 

[abaddon]

No. It says "extremely high temperatures during the collapse" and that " caused lead to....volatilize"

Do you not see those words in the paper? Please answer my question as to what temperature does lead volatilize at?

As low as below 700 degrees. Did you miss it the first time? Or are you ignoring it in order to bolster your fantasy?

 

[ozeco41]

As low as below 700 degrees. Did you miss it the first time? Or are you ignoring it in order to bolster your fantasy?

That is exactly where his logic is wrong as per my previous posts.

 

[Rollex]

You posted temperatures not in the report.

No. I posted a quote from the paper. No, there is no temperature in numerical form; but, it says lead volatilized. I figured the rest out myself. Here is something I found:

Substance Lead


Boiling Point - Vaporization - Temperature- t -(oC) 1,750 C

engineeringtoolbox.com/melting-boiling-temperatures-d_392.html

Fire is extremely high temperature. It is relative.

Are you saying that a normal office fire can volatilize lead?

Lead does not have to boil to be volatilized

According to Websters everything that volatilized passes off in vapor; which means it has to come to a boiling point first. (The degree of BP is reached at some point.) merriam-webster.com/dictionary/volatilize

fantasy of themite

You're the one who keeps bringing up thermite. I haven't said a word about it.

you think concrete melted.

I don't know what to think yet. That's why I joined up.

No explosives; don't be confused by simile.

The thing that bothers me about the accusations of explosives is that there were so many reports of them on the first day by the media FDNY, NYPD. I have also read the NIST reports (Both on the TT and WTC7) and in there final draft on wtc7 they admit a 2.25 second free fall period.....that bothers me. Plus the way they were to come to find the error, is very suspect to me.

NYPD? No, according to a museum. A museum, not NYPD.

Yes a museum in the name of the NYPD.

Do you have comments on this web page which was the original OP?

I had questions about temperatures which could have melted concrete. I found a quote in the RJ Lee paper that concerned me. Thought this would be a good forum to ask.

Are you on the no-plane wagon?

Definitely not. I have spoken to people who were there and saw them.

I answered my own question. Lead volatilizes at 1750C. That means that RJ Lee is saying that this temperature, was the extremely high temperature, which passed lead off in vapor. Their words seem clear to me. "caused lead to volatilize".

Somewhere I recall you said the fires got to 1000C.

 

[abaddon]

No. I posted a quote from the paper. No, there is no temperature in numerical form; but, it says lead volatilized. I figured the rest out myself. Here is something I found:

Substance Lead


Boiling Point - Vaporization - Temperature- t -(oC) 1,750 C

engineeringtoolbox.com/melting-boiling-temperatures-d_392.html

Lovely. Except the boiling point is not the topic, so why bring it up?

Are you saying that a normal office fire can volatilize lead?

Indeed they can.

According to Websters everything that volatilized passes off in vapor; which means it has to come to a boiling point first. (The degree of BP is reached at some point.) merriam-webster.com/dictionary/volatilize

False. If this were true, then simple water could not evaporate unless it was boiling.

You're the one who keeps bringing up thermite. I haven't said a word about it.

See that you continue to avoid that thermite woo for your own sake.

I don't know what to think yet. That's why I joined up.

I cannot tell you what to think, but I can present facts.

The thing that bothers me about the accusations of explosives is that there were so many reports of them on the first day by the media FDNY, NYPD. I have also read the NIST reports (Both on the TT and WTC7) and in there final draft on wtc7 they admit a 2.25 second free fall period.....that bothers me. Plus the way they were to come to find the error, is very suspect to me.

That's a "seems to me" type argument. Eg. It seems to me that David Copperfield can chop a woman in half, then reassemble her. My evidence is seeing it happen on TV and live.

Yes a museum in the name of the NYPD.

As we all know, museums never, ever mislabel anything, ever.

I had questions about temperatures which could have melted concrete. I found a quote in the RJ Lee paper that concerned me. Thought this would be a good forum to ask.

Yet, when given the answer that lead can volatalise under 700C you simply ignored it. Why is that?

Definitely not. I have spoken to people who were there and saw them.

I am relieved you are not a no-planer.

I answered my own question. Lead volatilizes at 1750C. That means that RJ Lee is saying that this temperature, was the extremely high temperature, which passed lead off in vapor. Their words seem clear to me. "caused lead to volatilize".

Wrong. Lead can volatilise below 700C. Why do you ignore this?

Somewhere I recall you said the fires got to 1000C.

Which is plenty hot to volatilise lead. And?

 

[Tolls]

Which is plenty hot to volatilise lead. And?

It's not only plenty hot, but it's also around the point (slightly above I think) that the amount of lead fumes coming off the molten metal would be considered, in other situations, to be a health hazard.

 

[Sunstealer]

63/37 tin lead solder will melt at the eutectic point of 183°C. Once a material is liquid then a degree of volatilisation will occur due to evaporation.

Volatilisation occurs in two forms, evaporation and boiling.

So there is no need to quote the boiling point of pure Pb in order to claim that this temperature must be reached for volatilisation to occur.

I suspect this fact will be ignored.

 

[GlennB]

63/37 tin lead solder will melt at the eutectic point of 183°C. Once a material is liquid then a degree of volatilisation will occur due to evaporation.

Volatilisation occurs in two forms, evaporation and boiling.

Phew! I'm mighty relieved. This might explain how my breath condenses on a cold surface without my lungs reaching boiling-point.

So there is no need to quote the boiling point of pure Pb in order to claim that this temperature must be reached for volatilisation to occur.

I suspect this fact will be ignored.

I'll bet good money that this turns out to be true.

 

[Sabretooth]

No. It says "extremely high temperatures during the collapse" and that " caused lead to....volatilize"

Do you not see those words in the paper? Please answer my question as to what temperature does lead volatilize at?



I find a lot of things unsettling about 9/11 and I have a personal mission to get to as close to the real truth as possible; wherever it may lead...not wallow in the mire of denial. Reports from the basements sub level 4 and 3 of explosions before the plane impacts. First responders attesting to molten metal "flowing like lava" (FDNY Capt.) and of course the third building really bugs me; however, I believe in a just God, and if all of these things did happen it means the world as I know it is not as I know it. I don't know if I want to know.




According to the NYPD it did.




I've tried and was stonewalled. She left to have kids and I can't locate her. No facebook. Nothing.

 

[Redwood]

Lead does not have to boil to be volatilized

According to Websters everything that volatilized passes off in vapor; which means it has to come to a boiling point first. (The degree of BP is reached at some point.) merriam-webster.com/dictionary/volatilize

You need to learn about phase diagrams. It's part of thermodynamics. I've tried teaching Jtl, currently on suspension, a little bit about it, but so far my efforts have been futile.

Briefly, when lead is molten, there is lead vapor present, too. The same principle applies as to how water vapor is present in the atmosphere even though it's nowhere near the boiling point. It's also why being constantly in the presence of large quantities of liquid mercury is very unhealthy.

 

[Axxman300]

That contradicts what the NYPD curator at the time, one Beth Spenelli had put on the plaque. It says "fire temperatures were so intense that concrete melted like lava around anything in it's path"

One would think that the people responsible for respecting those who perished on 9/11 would do their homework before asserting such a thing.

Do you know what a Brontosaurus is? Do you know that there is no such thing as a Brontosaurus?

Do you know why?

Because they stuck the wrong skull on an Apatasaurus. It took a few DECADES to figure that out.

Let help you out...

You've seen the footage of each tower going down, right, and those huge dust clouds that chased people down the street, right? That dust was concrete. Most of that dust concentrated in "The Pile" at Ground Zero. The Pile continued to burn for many days after the collapse, and fire hoses sprayed water onto the pile almost the entire time.

With me so far?

Concrete dusk mixed with that water, combined with the heat from the water, and was under THOUSANDS OF TONS OF PRESSURE from the weight of the debris.

What you see in the museum piece didn't take much heat at all, and pressure did most of the work.

It's really that simple.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Do you know what a Brontosaurus is? Do you know that there is no such thing as a Brontosaurus?

Do you know why?

Because they stuck the wrong skull on an Apatasaurus. It took a few DECADES to figure that out.

Let help you out...

You've seen the footage of each tower going down, right, and those huge dust clouds that chased people down the street, right? That dust was concrete. Most of that dust concentrated in "The Pile" at Ground Zero. The Pile continued to burn for many days after the collapse, and fire hoses sprayed water onto the pile almost the entire time.

With me so far?

Concrete dusk mixed with that water, combined with the heat from the water, and was under THOUSANDS OF TONS OF PRESSURE from the weight of the debris.

What you see in the museum piece didn't take much heat at all, and pressure did most of the work.

It's really that simple.

Using the Logic we have seen from some of the truthers, that would make Dinosaurs a hoax.

 

[beachnut]

451 agrees; No Melted Concrete

... I had questions about temperatures which could have melted concrete. I found a quote in the RJ Lee paper that concerned me. Thought this would be a good forum to ask. ...

http://yankee451.com/2012/07/15/963/

The original opening post, was nonsense.

Yankee451, a no plane pusher of nonsense, got this one right.

A quick evaluation of the images shows the concrete aggregate is still visible, which proves it did not turn to “lava”. This appears to be simply waterlogged (from firehoses), concrete and gypsum dust mixed with construction slag and then compressed under the building debris, but one thing’s for sure, it ain’t melted and then solidified concrete; you see steel melts at between 1452-1540 C. but the guns didn’t melt. Had the concrete turned to lava, the guns would have been turned to liquid first, or are we to believe the guns “re-solidified” as well?

Yankee451 rational side on 911; he can see this one, but can't see debris of Flight 93, or 175, RADAR, etc.

 

[NoahFence]

Looks like our new friend has nothing more to day. Cool.

 

[Sabretooth]

Air Cannon vs. Van...FWIW

 

[Redwood]

Air Cannon vs. Van...FWIW

[qimg]https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6488421888/h139B63AE/[/qimg]

My inner 12-year old just got a tingle.