Why church is so dangerous !!!

[The_Fire]

No one gets a free ride here. No one. Not me, not Hokulele, not Bjorn Toulouse, not Foster Zygote, not RandFan, not Randi, not anyone! Not even Your Illustrious Self. It's too bad for You that You expect one. Tantrum Your temper at will - no one will be swayed by appeals to pity or force here, nor will Your ad hominems earn any respect here. We understand with absolute clarity that the arguments are more important than the person making them.

As for flippant, is there any other way to treat the fluffy nonsense You promote - there is certainly nothing to be taken seriously in it. Any attempt to conduct a serious inquiry into Your meaningless stuff has repeatedly met with blank silence because You have no answers, or else with vitriol or pompous condescension. It would seem You have nothing else to offer. There is no discourse occuring here, because You simply are not an active participant. Sadly, for You, that is not the stuff of which knowledge is made.

We have met your claims head-on and conducted critical inquiries of them. You have failed to address the critiques at every possible opportunity. Failed opportunities, every one of them. You will ignore this again because it is all You can do. You have nothing to offer. You seem to think You are above such petty concerns as being consistent, coherent and accountable for your errors. You are discovering the hard way that we will hold You accountable and no amount of expressed irritation, however sactimonious, is going to alter that.

It seems You just don't get it. The purpose of argument is not to win. This is not an exercise in simple, ego-driven rhetoric. The purpose of argument is to arrive at the truth. Until You are prepared to meet critiques, You simply will not be taken seriously. Period. So cut the crap and start answering in good faith, because otherwise, You appear as disingenuous and manipulative and no one is going to to consider Your viewpoint until You start dealing with the critiques in an honest, forthright manner.

If everywhere else You go, they mindlessly accept Your drivel without the simplest of inquiries, then we must do their work for them. So be it. As You can see, we are ready and willing to accept that challenge, even if it annoys Your Illustrious Self.

You claim a direct hotline to God. We ask for proof. You fail.
You claim the predictive power of prophesy. We ask You why You change your dates. You fail.
You claim to be a higher moral authority, David"it's-not-a-sin-if-I-like-it"JayJordan. We ask for the basis of this authority. You fail.

We are "foolish" because we don't, without careful critique, just take Your miscellaneous stuff as given? We aren't "True Skeptics" (whatever that means!) because we don't deny what You deny? Any other meaningless terms from Your private, little lexicon You'd like to vomit at us in lieu of meaningful argument?

The most cursory and casual of examinations finds Your ideas wanting of evidence and perfectly superficial.

Why in the world would anyone, ANYONE!, take Your ideas seriously?

Nominated. And just for reference: I've been to several neo-pagan/witchcraft boards as well. And DJJ would have been torn a new one there as well.

 

[The_Fire]

Oh, And I still haven't been hit by lightning despite a properly predicted* thunderstorm last night.

*You know, through science.

 

[Elizabeth I]

For all I know, your name is really Mark. But I've been meaning to tell you how much I like your avatar. One of my favorites. That thing dogs do when they kind of drag their bums across the floor! and the expression: priceless!

My husband's name is really Mark.

Thank you for your kind remarks about my avatar. Possibly the silliest dog on the face of the earth and well worth the $50 adoption, spaying and immunization fee, simply in terms of pure entertainment value. My son happened to snap her picture when she was yawning and it came out looking (as you could tell if the picture were larger) like a terrifying snarl. Except that even in her dreams she could not be terrifying - see "silliest," above.

She also does a really funny run when she's excited - kind of tucks her rump under and tears around in circles.

Should I post a recipe now? Or has the thread not reached that point yet?

 

[RandFan]

No one gets a free ride here. No one. Not me, not Hokulele, not Bjorn Toulouse, not Foster Zygote, not RandFan, not Randi, not anyone!

Yep, I've had to eat crow a number of times. Some of my closest associates have taken me to task on this forum. It can sting a bit but I wouldn't want it anyother way.

If you can't take the heat then peddle your propaganda someplace else (I don't mean you dglas).

 

[Davidjayjordan]

Words from an old book written by men are not evidence of a god. Just evidence of men's desire for a higher power.

Your veiled threats by saying it is our choice, decision and responsibility are just very amusing. These threats may work on believers, may keep them cowed, may keep them frightened enough to keep believing. That is however, a very sad existence. Also, it does not say much for the belief system if you must hold threats over people to keep them believing. And I am talking about YOU, DJJ, not your strange definition of "church".

A life lived in fear is a life half lived.

Sorry to hear that you think the principles of choice and responsibility, bring FEAR and trembling into your heart. K.

They were meant to make you an individual and determine principles and life itself for yourself. But if you choose to look at choice and responsibility as a fearful thing, so be it. Nothing anyone can do about it but you. Hope you make it, but it doesn't look good at this point

 

[Davidjayjordan]

Welcome to reality. You've been hiding from it so long, it's a wonder you finally stumbled across it.

JSFisher,

Yes, I know its the most foolish discussion board I have ever been on, but still it is messmerizing to try and figure out why such seeemingly intelligent people can so lose control and rationality and be so motivated by their congregational setting HERE.

Amazing

 

[RandFan]

Sorry to hear that you think the principles of choice and responsibility, bring FEAR and trembling into your heart.

I'll put a gun to your head. You will have choice and responsibility. If you choose to do what I say then you will enjoy the blessing of life. If you choose not to do what I say then you must take responsibility for your actions.

Nice.

 

[Davidjayjordan]

Again watch your language. Rand ... and insinuations.

The Lord gives life and time for any and all to choose. That's why they are responsible for their choices. No one gets forced. The Lordis not putting a gun to anyone's head, by saying all have to choose and take responsibility for their actions.

Its a given, we all must deal with. We all have to become mature and take responsibility for our choices.

 

[RandFan]

Again watch your language. Rand ... and insinuations.

There is no insinuation. It's called a thought experiment.

The Lord gives life and time for any and all to choose.

And if I put a gun to someone's head I will give them time to choose.

No one gets forced.

Of course not. A gun to the head is not force either.

The Lordis not putting a gun to anyone's head, by saying all have to choose and take responsibility for their actions.

A bullet to the brain is nothing compared to eternity of pain and suffering.

Its a given, we all must deal with. We all have to become mature and take responsibility for our choices.

Which has nothing whatsoever to do with the point at hand.

 

[jsfisher]

DavidJayJordan,

Based on a recent study out of Germany relating sexual activity with laziness, I think I'm good on that whole sloth question. Now, could you please just let us know how intently you like food, then we can wrap up on all seven of those deadly sins.

Would Jesus really approve, though?

 

[kitakaze]

To show us your sincerity and honesty with yourself in your quest for honest, truthful answerers could you answer a few simple questions for me?

1. Have you corrected, or are you correcting, the many computational errors in the math that you've based many of your claims on?

2. Have you amended your website with the correct distance to the moon?

3. Have you honestly acknowledged to yourself that you prophesied events that failed to occur so you changed the dates to move the events from the past to the future once more?

DJJ, I was wondering if you had any intention to address the questions above.

 

[bruto]

Again watch your language. Rand ... and insinuations.

The Lord gives life and time for any and all to choose. That's why they are responsible for their choices. No one gets forced. The Lordis not putting a gun to anyone's head, by saying all have to choose and take responsibility for their actions.

Its a given, we all must deal with. We all have to become mature and take responsibility for our choices.

Nonsense and total bushwit. In your usual way you are dynamically redefining everything to the point of incoherence. What your presumed lord is doing is exactly "putting a gun to the head" by threatening eternal punishment for guessing the rules wrong, and eternal salvation for doing what he demands. You redefine this as maturity and responsibility, while saying that those who base their conduct on reason and conscience without regard to the ambiguous commands of an imagined deity, as expounded in an ancient and corrupt text, are somehow evading responsibility for their actions.

Can you give any coherent explanation for this anomalous redefinition of "responsibility," or are you just mangling words and creating new meanings as you go along, as usual.

 

[Davidjayjordan]

Nonsense and total bushwit. In your usual way you are dynamically redefining everything to the point of incoherence. What your presumed lord is doing is exactly "putting a gun to the head" by threatening eternal punishment for guessing the rules wrong, and eternal salvation for doing what he demands. You redefine this as maturity and responsibility, while saying that those who base their conduct on reason and conscience without regard to the ambiguous commands of an imagined deity, as expounded in an ancient and corrupt text, are somehow evading responsibility for their actions.

Can you give any coherent explanation for this anomalous redefinition of "responsibility," or are you just mangling words and creating new meanings as you go along, as usual.

Now BRUTO, don't get heated up, learn to count to ten, or in your case maybe a hundred before posting...

the Lord never punishes anyone for anything they don't deserve. people choose and get what they deserve and the Lord doesn;t break their rights and priviledges to do so. People just simply reap what they sow. What they send around, comes back to them.

If people don't want the Lord and His LOVE, they can go elsewhere, no problem.

So if you can;t understand love, learn what love is, and stop your tirades about what you obviously don't understand.

Go beyond the law that was created for lawbreakers, to the spirit that controls our lifes. OUR MOTIVATIONS. When you understand yourself, then you can start to understand others, and then start to understand what spirit or principles have to be in our hearts to work together for good.

But just because you are messed up spiritually and incoherant, in no way reflects on the Lord's PRINCIPLES.

Rand, it would take sooooo long to straighten you out. But at least you have dropped your head to the gun parallel..... as that is the way governments work to put fear and tembling into their citizenry so they will believe the lies told them and just follow the status quo.

SEE True Skeptics thread on the Conspiracy Board

 

[Davidjayjordan]

PS, Dear ALL, we reap what we sow. We must take responsiblity for our actions as adults. We therefore must not depend on others to make our decisions for us, or think our churches or politicians, or our favorite discussion board will negate us of our personal responsibilities, we can NOT blame others for our way of thinking. We must learn to become individual and stop thinking like groupies.

 

[RandFan]

PS, Dear ALL, we reap what we sow. We must take responsiblity for our actions as adults. We therefore must not depend on others to make our decisions for us, or think our churches or politicians, or our favorite discussion board will negate us of our personal responsibilities, we can NOT blame others for our way of thinking. We must learn to become individual and stop thinking like groupies.

We are not groupies. I have debated many of those here. We are not monolithic. Follow your own advise and attack the arguments and not the people.

Now here you are with your faith
And your Peter Pan advice
--Billy Joel

 

[joobz]

PS, Dear ALL, we reap what we sow. We must take responsiblity for our actions as adults.

Fully agree.

 

[Kochanski]

Sorry to hear that you think the principles of choice and responsibility, bring FEAR and trembling into your heart. K.

They were meant to make you an individual and determine principles and life itself for yourself. But if you choose to look at choice and responsibility as a fearful thing, so be it. Nothing anyone can do about it but you. Hope you make it, but it doesn't look good at this point

I see no principles of choice and responsiblity in the bible. I see words by men describing the supposed actions of a petulant, arrogant, jealous, and heartless god. I see people attempting to use this as a way to get people to believe (including you), to believe out of fear of retribution and torture by this insane god.

I have individual principles that I live by and need no moldy old book written by men to give them to me.

And I do not need your veiled threats once again that I am somehow doomed by not following this dangerous old nonsense.

"Repent for the time is at hand" doesn't work on me. It just makes me laugh. It inspires no fear in me. What I resent is your attempt (and the attempt of many religions) to use this to control my actions and life. I resent that you think me so stupid that I would be cowed by this.

 

[jsfisher]

PS, Dear ALL, we reap what we sow. We must take responsiblity for our actions as adults.

So, tell me, how does Jesus view liars, arrogant hypocrites, and false prophets? Do they get to reap the good stuff or the bad stuff?

Just wondering....

 

[strathmeyer]

As mentioned I have never ever been on such a foolish discussion board as this. Never !!! Ive been on church boards, science boards, witchcraft boards, humanist boards, sex boards, and every manner of discussion board, but never have I ever seen grown people being so foolish and flippant. Never.

You're assertions are always so absurd, but this one will be easy to prove.

Davidjayjordan, please list the discussion boards of the types above that you have participated in. The list is very exact and concise so it should be easy for you to remember.

Or where you lying? It seems very likely, since you don't seem to think that lying to people is wrong.

 

[neon]

If people don't want the Lord and His LOVE, they can go elsewhere, no problem.

Did anybody else just picture a scene from Fatal Attraction?