What is paranormal in Homeopathy

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

?
Got a link to that? Sounds like an amusing read

I've really been wanting to ask this for a long time.

Dr. MAS, were you serious in claiming this;

http://www.pbase.com/8w/8thwonder

http://www.otherhealth.com/showthread.php?t=55

to be a wonderful device that challenged the understanding of all who saw it?

It looks like a fairly straightforward ship-in-a-bottle trick to me.

If you are happy to confirm that was just a piece of fun done for entertainment then I can take seriously your desire to enquire into the view that homeopathy is paranormal.

But, if you claim that your "8th wonder" is itself a miracle then there is no need to take this thread any further, you will have made our point for us.

p.s. I love this line from one of the links;

"The people who visited the exhibition saw the magic glass bottle frame with great enthouism and strange eyes. This credits also goes to a Creative Mind Homeopath."

 

[Donks]

Errr, small blinking lights that work with 220V and no flashing circuit? I put those on my christmas tree...

ETA: Looking more closely at one of the picks, they are freaking christmas tree lights. What the hell is so wonderful about that?

 

[MRC_Hans]

*snip* What the hell is so wonderful about that?

It sure beats sugar pills .

Hans

 

[Kumar]

Note to self. Remember, Kumar is a TROLL. No one who breathes, including a poorly educated asian labourer with access to a computer, could possibly have such a closed mind and such a fertile imagination for anything that might at the wildest chance support his preconceived beliefs.

Now, you'll believe a molecule can fly.

Stop feeding the troll.

Rolfe.

Are you really feeding? Can you really feed? No food from you in two recent topics relevant to you in science forum.

Why it can't be possible? We discussed previously about 'smell'. Is smell is not by molecules? Don't you feel/finds smell in BAR etc.? Is it not by somewhat flying molecules?

Smell is one of the chemical senses, the other being taste. They are so called because they sense chemicals, and smells are, of course, chemicals. With these senses we sample our environment for information. We are continuously testing the quality of the air we breathe (this will alert us to potential dangers, e.g. smoke) as well as using this sense to inform us of other relevant information, such as the presence of food or another individual. The chemicals detected by our sensory systems need to have certain properties. For instance, odour molecules must be small enough to be volatile (less than 300-400 relative molecular mass) so that they can vapourise, reach the nose and then dissolve in the mucus.http://www.cf.ac.uk/biosi/staff/jacob/teaching/sensory/olfact1.html

Why we smell alcohol not the sugar--as flying molecules?

 

[Jocce]

Why we smell alcohol not the sugar--as flying molecules?

Yeah, that's a tricky question. Must be one of those misses and weaknesses. Or maybe one part of the answer is in the quote you supply? Starts with a "v", ends in olatile?

 

[MRC_Hans]

Are you really feeding? Can you really feed? No food from you in two recent topics relevant to you in science forum.

This is because nobody can feed a closed mouth, Kumar. You have mentioned that yourself. If you actually read Rolfe's posts, and actually tried to understand them, you would find tons of nourishment there. Ask a sensible question, and Rolfe will ALWAYS give you a good answer. But feeding you information is trying to sow on stone ground. The little you actually absorb you misinterpret and misunderstand.

Why it can't be possible? We discussed previously about 'smell'. Is smell is not by molecules? Don't you feel/finds smell in BAR etc.? Is it not by somewhat flying molecules?



Why we smell alcohol not the sugar--as flying molecules?

Look up this word, Kumar: Evaporation .

Hans

 

[TheBoyPaj]

I said, the picture in the avatar is of Dr. MAS but I "Dr. MAS 100 posts" is not that Dr. MAS, but my name is Dr. MAS. I think, it is much clear now.

Yes, that is very clear. You claim that you are not THE Dr MAS, the loon who claims to be a homepath and who put a frame in a bottle to the amazement of some easily-pleased dignitaries, but rather you are "A" Dr MAS, a loon who simply claims to be a homeopath.

An amazing coincidence. Two loons, with identical names, both claiming to be experts in a bogus field.

And, to make matters more interesting, you look identical. So, I'm assuming he is your twin brother. Correct?

Think quickly.

 

[Jocce]

Think quickly.

..and correctly. But that might be too much to ask. Empirical evidence suggests that it takes at least 200 years for homeopaths to do that, and we're still waiting.

 

[Zep]

Dr MAS? (ANY Dr MAS will do - I don't care about you possible multiple personalities or your avatar). Care to step forward and continue what you said you would do for us, namely teach us the simple arithmetic of homeopathy?

No?

Any other homeopath care to teach us this arithmetic?

Hello! I'm still waiting...

Excellent! In which case I will set up an initial problem for you, the master, and you will take us all through the homeopathic operation of preparing a simple 30C sodium chloride remedy. And you will do the arithmetic as we go along so we can all follow. And everyone will be nice and polite so we can see the master at work, won't we!

Very well, master. Here's the starting situation.

NUMBER OF MOLECULES IN 1ml (1 drop) of PURE WATER is approximately 33,460,000,000,000,000,000,000.

We are using sodium chloride (NaCl), which for this first exercise we will agree disperses instantly and completely at each level of potentising.

We will agree for thesake of argument that the "mother tincture" of sodium chloride is pure, and that one ml contains the same number of molecules as water.

We will use the classic Hanhemennian potentising method as described here on your own organisation's website by Dr. Muhammad Akram Khan, B.Sc (Hons), M.Sc (PHE), DHMS, RHMP: http://www.nchpakistan.com/articles.htm

So we begin:

What is the first step, and please show us the arithmetic using the above numbers. And remember, you agreed to do this for us.

 

[juninho]

Yes, that is very clear. You claim that you are not THE Dr MAS, the loon who claims to be a homepath and who put a frame in a bottle to the amazement of some easily-pleased dignitaries, but rather you are "A" Dr MAS, a loon who simply claims to be a homeopath.

An amazing coincidence. Two loons, with identical names, both claiming to be experts in a bogus field.

And, to make matters more interesting, you look identical. So, I'm assuming he is your twin brother. Correct?

Think quickly.

After wading through pages of this rubbish, I am now positively convinced that Dr MAS is a troll. Not only is he trolling us, but he is also trolling the homeopaths over at the otherhealth boards. A rather interesting snippet can be found here

 

[Ashles]

After wading through pages of this rubbish, I am now positively convinced that Dr MAS is a troll. Not only is he trolling us, but he is also trolling the homeopaths over at the otherhealth boards. A rather interesting snippet can be found here

It's looking very much like juninho is right.

No clear answers, poor understanding of basic chemistry, no understanding of any of the other subjects he claims to have qualifications in, constant irrelevancies and deliberate confusion about his ID and avatar, persistent refusal to explain homeopathy in this thread (despite claiming he would explain it all to us), illogical Million Rupee challenge, requests for personal informatin including phone numbers...

Yes there's little doubt I'm afraid.

Dr Mas, consider yourself 'outed'
You don't like people who trap trap trap on your bridge
You are a 'friend of Mayday'
You have cave relatives who try to kill Frodo with a trident

Need I spell it out? Starts with a 'T' and an 'R' ...

 

[Zep]

You mean...he's NOT going to teach me the basic arithmetic of homeopathy???

*sniff*

OH, I FEEL SO LET DOWN!!! THIS IS SO UNEXPECTED!! *sob*





heh heh - not.

 

[Rolfe]

After wading through pages of this rubbish, I am now positively convinced that Dr MAS is a troll. Not only is he trolling us, but he is also trolling the homeopaths over at the otherhealth boards. A rather interesting snippet can be found here

That's an interesting thread, and for several reasons. One is that it is more than four years old. Another is that Dr. Mas's avatar in that thread is of someone quite unlike all the pictures he has posted or referred to here. Of course he doesn't claim that that avatar is of himself either, but it's still odd. Another is that he seems in the middle of the conversation to admit that he's trolling, by posting in an Indian or Pakistani dialect words which were subsequently translated as

"Oh U are a friend(because belonging to same cast and country I suppose). Then why are U favouring these people. I am just trying to annoy these people. U should be on my side

Oh No Oh Yes Oh Woh"

And finally, the thread features Anna Bryant, the same homoeopath who, some time in 2003 or 2004, was close to going for the JREF challenge, but backed off ostensibly because she'd have to "make herself ill" (prove) multiple times.

If this is nothing but a trolling exercise, well, get a life. In a way, I hope it is.

The problem is that Dr. Mas is making no sense. He posts nonsensical or meaningless questions, and repeatedly demands an answer while refusing to respond to requests for clarification. He makes assertions that wildly improbable things, things so improbable as to be impossible within any reasonable definition of the word, are "possible", and invites us to agree with him without brooking any qualification regarding the probability (although he actually frames the question in terms of probability).

He isn't going to get sensible replies to nonsensical questions. However, I'm concerned that to his "students" (if they exist) or other homoeopaths, the questions may seem reasonable, and he might actually be able to make some capital among the barely numerate by presenting this as our being unable to answer his penetrating logic.

On the other hand, this latest "it's not me it's Dr. Mas, and I'm a different Dr. Mas" is so surreal that I have to incline towards the verdict of "deliberate troll", same as with Kumar when he starts speculating about active material clinging to glass (and nobody in the science community having noticed that all these years....) or homoeopaths deliberately preparing the sequential glassware with a coating of the remedy substance, and now flying molecules.

Just give me a homoeopath who will either

1. Just take the challenge and so demonstrate that it really does "work"
2. Post a rational, understandable explanation of how they think it works.[/list=1]All this tedious empty speculation and unsubstantiated assertion gets wearing after a while.
   
   Rolfe.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

That's an interesting thread, and for several reasons. One is that it is more than four years old. Another is that Dr. Mas's avatar in that thread is of someone quite unlike all the pictures he has posted or referred to here. Of course he doesn't claim that that avatar is of himself either, but it's still odd. Another is that he seems in the middle of the conversation to admit that he's trolling, by posting in an Indian or Pakistani dialect words which were subsequently translated asAnd finally, the thread features Anna Bryant, the same homoeopath who, some time in 2003 or 2004, was close to going for the JREF challenge, but backed off ostensibly because she'd have to "make herself ill" (prove) multiple times.

If this is nothing but a trolling exercise, well, get a life. In a way, I hope it is.

The problem is that Dr. Mas is making no sense. He posts nonsensical or meaningless questions, and repeatedly demands an answer while refusing to respond to requests for clarification. He makes assertions that wildly improbable things, things so improbable as to be impossible within any reasonable definition of the word, are "possible", and invites us to agree with him without brooking any qualification regarding the probability (although he actually frames the question in terms of probability).

He isn't going to get sensible replies to nonsensical questions. However, I'm concerned that to his "students" (if they exist) or other homoeopaths, the questions may seem reasonable, and he might actually be able to make some capital among the barely numerate by presenting this as our being unable to answer his penetrating logic.

On the other hand, this latest "it's not me it's Dr. Mas, and I'm a different Dr. Mas" is so surreal that I have to incline towards the verdict of "deliberate troll", same as with Kumar when he starts speculating about active material clinging to glass (and nobody in the science community having noticed that all these years....) or homoeopahts deliberately preparing the sequential glassware with a coating of the remedy substance, and now flying molecules.

Just give me a homoeopath who will either

1. Just take the challenge and so demonstrate that it really does "work"
2. Post a rational, understandable explanation of how they think it works.[/list=1]All this tedious empty speculation and unsubstantiated assertion gets wearing after a while.
   
   Rolfe.

1. 
   
   The other odd thing is that as an exercise in deliberate trolling they can't even do that very well. My various forays into the world of the woo have had the intent of trapping them into logical holes out of which they cannot dig, and mostly I have beaten them. Dr MAS has only generated posts that point out he is an idiot. If he just wants attention, he is succeeding, but if he wants to beat us at this game, he cannot, because fundamentally he is arguing in favour of an erroneous belief, so has no bedrock of truth against which to rest, whereas good old Reality will always ride to our rescue.

 

[Zep]

Maybe we need to issue something like a Learner Driver's License for new homeopaths on this forum. They would have to abide by some ground rules of behaviour for a period of time before they are taken seriously.

I agree this may be perceived to be discriminatory, but I feel it is actually for the benefit of genuine homeopaths (!!) who actually want to partake in "sane conversations" here. And by "sane conversations" I mean neither "completely fruit-loop woo-woo-woo ole phtang biscuit-barrel batty-as-you-please" random word arrangements, nor "I'm smarter than you" trolling.

And I'm surprised to say that Barbrae is actually an outstanding example of a homeopath who DOES meet these requirements!

 

[Bronze Dog]

Re: Beware

Older post I feel like bringing back up:

All of you have started to amuse me now....! You have hijacked Hans too...! Some of you are willing to TRY anything to disapprove of Homeopathy...! Here is the test dose for those who are ill and want to know what homeoapthy can do.

If any of the debaters develop sneezing spells or rhinitis...and wants to prove that homeopthy does not work. Forget about all the laws and take Cina-30 1 drop in a tablespoon of water. Not for childern under 5 years of age like BSM and Rolfe. But flume, majo, Ashles and Steenkh may take it. One such dose would stop the sneezings and watering eyes of our poolry seeing posters here.

Do not repeat it ....! without my consultation!

PS. I have started to love you guys....***

People like us have been asking for large, randomized, double-blind control studies for years (over a century?), and you ask us to do an uncontrolled, unblinded study of one subject, and expect that to prove it to us? How are we supposed to know that any results aren't due to placebo effect, spontaneous remission, other treatments, or other hypothetical causes? Do you think our perceptions are infallible? Do you think your perceptions are infallible?

 

[steenkh]

Please notice that Dr. MAS answers question on his identity (although incoherently) but he will not answer questions on his pet theories.

 

[flume]

I'd like to know why the "MAS" is all in caps. Initials? Some tradition? Individuality? (although less individual if there are many Dr. MASes.)

 

[Rolfe]

Are you really feeding? Can you really feed? No food from you in two recent topics relevant to you in science forum.

Remember, Kumar, you have rudely spat out everything I've tried to "feed" you. Spitting in my face, with insults.

Every time I've taken the trouble to explain something to you, you've ignored my explanations, come back demanding that I give a different explanation, or simply insulted me. There's no way I'm going to waste any more of my time trying to educate someone who is as wilfully ignorant as you.

Rolfe.

 

[geni]

I'd like to know why the "MAS" is all in caps. Initials? Some tradition? Individuality? (although less individual if there are many Dr. MASes.)

Initials (I used to know what they stood for but that was about a year ago).