What is paranormal in Homeopathy

[Ashles]

Thank you Syed, but if I want to test my response to Placebo or effects of my own immune system then I can visit the homeopathy forums.

That's why we have double blind tests - our ability to judge our own healing is a very imprecise measure which appears to keep homeopaths in business.

Why don't you apply for the Million Dollar Challenge to demonstrate homeopathy works, and win yourself lots of money as a by-product?

Edited to add: And I am stil awaiting your explanation of how homeopathy works in this thread I set up for you.

 

[Psiload]

Re: Beware

Did someone say he is going to take Anacardium-200 TDS for 10 days here ?

Oh my...

Please do not do it.. It may cause harm...! and its not easily anti-doted either.

We can discuss it out here....than puting anybody on trial...

I propose another better way...
Lets have a case that needs treatment...Lets have case on Rhinitis or Coryza or Allergy and I take a case here in front of all of you guys...!

So ... who is Sick ???

What is TDS? Is that Total Dissolved Solids? What does a 200 TDS equate to in homeopathic terms? Would that be greater than Avogardo?

 

[Darat]

Re: Beware

Did someone say he is going to take Anacardium-200 TDS for 10 days here ?

Oh my...

Please do not do it.. It may cause harm...! and its not easily anti-doted either.

We can discuss it out here....than puting anybody on trial...

I propose another better way...
Lets have a case that needs treatment...Lets have case on Rhinitis or Coryza or Allergy and I take a case here in front of all of you guys...!

So ... who is Sick ???

Spondylitis do you? Happy to take whatever you recommend.

 

[steenkh]

Re: Beware

Did someone say he is going to take Anacardium-200 TDS for 10 days here ?

Oh my...

Please do not do it.. It may cause harm...! and its not easily anti-doted either.

I also would not mind taking it for months on end, but my confidence in homoeopaths is very low, so I would not trust that their watery solutions had not been spiked with something more potent. Consequently I would need some kind of trustworthy controlling body to ensure that what I drink is water and nothing but water. Especially now that Kumar has brought up the theory that the non-existing effect of homoeopathy is caused by using the same dirty glass for all the solutions!

 

[Psiload]

I just found these "directions" on a homeopathic website:

http://www.truestarhealth.com/Notes/2228002.html

Homeopathy Dosage Directions

Select the remedy that most closely matches the symptoms. In conditions where self-treatment is appropriate, unless otherwise directed by a physician, a lower potency (6X, 6C, 12X, 12C, 30X, or 30C) should be used. In addition, instructions for use are usually printed on the label.

Many homeopathic physicians suggest that remedies be used as follows: Take one dose and wait for a response. If improvement is seen, continue to wait and let the remedy work. If improvement lags significantly or has clearly stopped, another dose may be taken. The frequency of dosage varies with the condition and the individual. Sometimes a dose may be required several times an hour; other times a dose may be indicated several times a day; and in some situations, one dose per day (or less) can be sufficient.

If no response is seen within a reasonable amount of time, select a different remedy.

Mind you... no fewer than 9 "remedies" are listed.

Factor in all of the different symptoms, potencies, dosages, remedies, and waiting time and you've got a sure fire cure for seasonal allergies(Hay Fever). By the time winter rolls around, you're bound to find the one that works!

I love homeopathy... it's just so danged silly.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Re: Beware

Did someone say he is going to take Anacardium-200 TDS for 10 days here ?

Oh my...

Please do not do it.. It may cause harm...! and its not easily anti-doted either.

We can discuss it out here....than puting anybody on trial...

I propose another better way...
Lets have a case that needs treatment...Lets have case on Rhinitis or Coryza or Allergy and I take a case here in front of all of you guys...!

So ... who is Sick ???

Oh, what the heck!
This is like hazing the freshman, right?

Helios sell Anacardium. What is the difference between Anacardium occ. and Anacardium OR?

(TDS, I assume is 3 times daily)

 

[Rolfe]

Re: Re: Beware

Helios sell Anacardium. What is the difference between Anacardium occ. and Anacardium OR?

(TDS, I assume is 3 times daily)

BSM, I'm lazy (and busy and stuff), but if you can get exactly the preparation Syed is so convinced makes people ill and care to share, send me some and I'll take it too.

It will be interesting to see if it does even less than the Belladonna 30C did. Oh yes that did nothing at all, right.

Rolfe.

 

[flume]

One site says it is antidoted by coffee, by the way.

What will Syed or any other homeopath conclude if you take it and have no proving symptoms? Will they be in any way convinced that the stuff is unable to have any effect? Or will they conclude that the person trying it actually has the conditions it is supposed to treat? (In the case of Anacardium orientale, that includes some unpleasant mental characteristics. I haven't looked up his alternate suggestion, China.)

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

One site says it is antidoted by coffee, by the way.

Syed, you think it is guaranteed to have an effect aren't you? I'm not doing this unless you are sure.

You still need to answer your Phys Chem question, by the way.

 

[Ashles]

Thank you Syed, but if I want to test my response to Placebo or effects of my own immune system then I can visit the homeopathy forums.

Edited to add: And I am stil awaiting your explanation of how homeopathy works in this thread I set up for you.

Sorry, I've just read through the last God knows how many pages and realised that this is supposed to make me ill.

So I'm presuming from a like-cures-like basis that Anacardium normally makes you feel great then?

A quick check reveals that this is the cashew.
From Wikipedia:

Anacardiaceae is a family of flowering plants bearing fruits that are drupes. Some species produce the irritant urushiol. The type genus is Anacardium, the cashew. Other species included in this family are mango, poison ivy, sumac, smoke tree, and pistachio. The latter is sometimes placed in its own family: the Pistaciaceae.

What exactly will I be taking? Because I've eaten cashew, mango and pistachio before.
What is in the homeopathic remedy Anacardium?

 

[Mojo]

When a single drop from 1st potency (which was prepared according to the ratio 1/99) was taken into 2nd bottle for preparing 2nd dilution, can you confirm that the exact ratio of "starting material" in the drop was transfered in 2nd diltution?

Remember, 1st potency was prepared with the ratio 1/99 i.e one drop of starting material was taken and 99 drops of fresh pure any solvent (alcohol) was added and then it was jerked 10 times. The "lonly" drop of 1st starting material was got mixed and now you have to take one drop from the previous potency as "new starting material" for preparing 2nd potency. Clear?

Can you confirm that this new drop which was taken as new starting material contains 1/99 ratio of 1st starting material (Refer to probablity law)?

Remember, according to probality law, it is quite possible that the 2nd starting material "drop" may not contain any molecule of 1st starting material (because that drop was picked up blindly from the 1st bottle) and it may or may not contain 50% of the 1st starting material or may contain 99% of the starting material. Hence, avogadro's law can be applied in the same manner as it was demonstrated by you (member) earlier.

You have pinpointed the fatal weakness in your argument yourself, in that last paragraph. Although there is a (vanishingly small) possibility that there is significantly more of the original solution in the sample taken to make the next dilution than in the whole preparation, there is also the (also vanishingly small) possibility that there is significantly less. Over the course of a few dilutions these are bound to average out. Remember that we are talking about astronomical numbers of molecules here.

Once you go beyond Avogadro's limit, there are, on average, bound to be no molecules of the original tincture left. Even if a molecule or two could be found in a particular sample, the average number in a sample would still be close to zero.

Unless the remedy has been prepared incompetently, of course. Is this how you achieve it?

 

[Zep]

Excellent! In which case I will set up an initial problem for you, the master, and you will take us all through the homeopathic operation of preparing a simple 30C sodium chloride remedy. And you will do the arithmetic as we go along so we can all follow. And everyone will be nice and polite so we can see the master at work, won't we!

Very well, master. Here's the starting situation.

NUMBER OF MOLECULES IN 1ml (1 drop) of PURE WATER is approximately 33,460,000,000,000,000,000,000.

We are using sodium chloride (NaCl), which for this first exercise we will agree disperses instantly and completely at each level of potentising.

We will agree for thesake of argument that the "mother tincture" of sodium chloride is pure, and that one ml contains the same number of molecules as water.

We will use the classic Hanhemennian potentising method as described here on your own organisation's website by Dr. Muhammad Akram Khan, B.Sc (Hons), M.Sc (PHE), DHMS, RHMP: http://www.nchpakistan.com/articles.htm

So we begin:

What is the first step, and please show us the arithmetic using the above numbers. And remember, you agreed to do this for us.

Still waiting...

If you decide you don't want to do this for us after all, Dr MAS, if you decide to run away, you realise you have proven in writing that we, the skeptics, know more about homeopathy than you, the homeopaths, do. And we can prove it.

So, we wait...

 

[flume]

Originally posted by Dr. MAS: Remember, according to probality law, it is quite possible that the 2nd starting material "drop" may not contain any molecule of 1st starting material (because that drop was picked up blindly from the 1st bottle) and it may or may not contain 50% of the 1st starting material or may contain 99% of the starting material.

I'm bored tonight and hope Dr. MAS will finally post his mathematical explanation and reasoning for this idea.

 

[Metullus]

15 pages - and nothing of substance from Dr. MAS. Mayday in drag?

 

[MRC_Hans]

Wrong. No other can/will write in my language & style.

I know, goodness can be nailed as per current age entitlements.

I was commenting on the frequent and obvious changes in Kumar's writing style, from nicely and correctly crafted sentences (some of which are unlikely to be cut and pasted from others), to total gibberish, and we get the reply above, heheh.

First of all, he is not addressing the issue at all, secondly, he is wrong, since I have a language award to prove that I can indeed imitate his writing style, and finally, the post itself is a nice demonstration of my point: One sentence is clear and understandable (if slightly Kumaresh, with the / and &), the other is totally impenetrable.

You can't make this guy up .

Hans

 

[Homeopath Syed]

Beware

All of you have started to amuse me now....! You have hijacked Hans too...! Some of you are willing to TRY anything to disapprove of Homeopathy...! Here is the test dose for those who are ill and want to know what homeoapthy can do.

If any of the debaters develop sneezing spells or rhinitis...and wants to prove that homeopthy does not work. Forget about all the laws and take Cina-30 1 drop in a tablespoon of water. Not for childern under 5 years of age like BSM and Rolfe. But flume, majo, Ashles and Steenkh may take it. One such dose would stop the sneezings and watering eyes of our poolry seeing posters here.

Do not repeat it ....! without my consultation!

PS. I have started to love you guys....***

 

[MRC_Hans]

Re: Beware

All of you have started to amuse me now....! You have hijacked Hans too...! Some of you are willing to TRY anything to disapprove of Homeopathy...! Here is the test dose for those who are ill and want to know what homeoapthy can do.

If any of the debaters develop sneezing spells or rhinitis...and wants to prove that homeopthy does not work. Forget about all the laws and take Cina-30 1 drop in a tablespoon of water. Not for childern under 5 years of age like BSM and Rolfe. But flume, majo, Ashles and Steenkh may take it. One such dose would stop the sneezings and watering eyes of our poolry seeing posters here.

Do not repeat it ....! without my consultation!

PS. I have started to love you guys....***

*sigh* Another idiot. You know, the number of village idiots in homepathy is amazing.

Syed, dear, do you know what we think about people who keep making testable claims, yet don't apply for the Randi million? Or get a Nobel prize?

You are not even practicing real homepathy.



Hans

 

[Homeopath Syed]

Beware

Please dont mind if I call you the idiot.!

Thanks

 

[MRC_Hans]

You can call me anything you like, but people will note who is making the silly, unfounded claims.



Hans

 

[Zep]

Homeopath Syed, how's your arithmetic? Would YOU like to take up the teaching process now that it appears that Dr MAS has failed to proceed?

If you do, please read above for the description of what we would like you to explain to us: Creating a 30C remedy of sodium Chloride using the classic homeopathic method.

So how about it? You "love us guys" so much...why don't you teach us something, OK?