What is paranormal in Homeopathy

[Dr. MAS]

It would matter to all the sick people in the world --- it would show that homeopathy works.

Dr. MAS: First of all tell me, would you able to understand my demonstration or not? You have to pass my preliminary test. I want to check my audience whether you are able to understand what I will demonstrate or it would be of having wastage of time at the end. Obviously if I will demonstrate the experiment in front of child (who has no idea of basic science) then no body will call me wise. All will call me the most foolish person on ground.

 

[geni]

The mathematical proof goes as follows

1 mole of substance= 6.02214*1023 particles (figure correct to 6sf). This is basic is you dissagree please take it up with Professor Peter Atkins of the University of Oxford
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This mathematical proof does not apply over homeopathy. So all you explained is wrong. Ok.

Which of the following does not apply to homeopathy?

1+1=2
1+0=1

If those apply all maths applies.

I respect professor's remarks but do tell him about my post and asked him, "why probability or any other law of chemistry does not apply over homeo dilution?

avogadro's law applies to all forms of chemistry.

What is the special reason to consider Avog law? Why the other laws of chemistry were over sighted?.

They wernt it's just that there is no way around avogadro's law at the energy levels involved in homeopathy

Please do ask him, When molecules of starting material (homeo medicines) were broken down in dilution number two during succession process then why you did not pick the molecules of dilution number two again as one (SINGLE) mole?"

Remeber the homeopathic remedy gold? In that case the particles are atoms. On the basis that homeopathic remedies don't give out largae amounts of radition when being preparded I think we can rule out any breakdown of gold atoms. As for melcular remedies the energy levels involved in making homeopathic remedies are too low for and significant breakdown to occure.

This question is very difficult to understand by you, so please forward my question to him.

Difficult to understand? So far you haven't got beyond first year GCSE chemistry.

I have in-depth study of homeopathy for this purpose, I visited many lab in Pakistan. I am waiting for the response.

You have visted labs? I've spent a fair amount of the last few years of my life working in them.

 

[atarian]

Please do ask him, When molecules of starting material (homeo medicines) were broken down in dilution number two during succession process then why you did not pick the molecules of dilution number two again as one (SINGLE) mole?" This question is very difficult to understand by you, so please forward my question to him.

I have in-depth study of homeopathy for this purpose, I visited many lab in Pakistan. I am waiting for the response.

Frankly speaking, is this paranormal to you?

To make it very clear, please run through a dilution to say... 12C step by step. At each step, put in the number of molecules remaining of the solute, assuming you start with one mole of them.

Simple math, should take you all of 10 minutes.

 

[Dr. MAS]

Is that a statement that it was a mere party trick? Did you expect people to believe it really was a miracle, or just to accept it was a party trick and that it had a perfectly simple mechanism?

Dr. MAS: Yes, it was a trick. It was not a miracle at all but presented in the form of "paranormal". Yes, it has simple mechanism but many of you cannot do and many cannot understand it. You must agree with that. Do you believe that everybody does understand what was done?

 

[Dr. MAS]

Which of the following does not apply to homeopathy?

1+1=2
1+0=1

If those apply all maths applies.

Dr. MAS: Gene do not waste time, and wait for professor’s answer. I know your mental capabilities. I am in my late 50s. I am a teacher and I can judge very easily the intellectual potential of my students.

 

[geni]

Dr. MAS: I am ready to tell you everything but I am much worried about you,whether you can understand what I will tell you or not?

Ok, I posted a question above tell me, what does this mean? Why the molecules in second dilution were not taken as single mole again?

Because assuming 1:10 dilution there aould only be 6.02214 × 10²² particles per L with is 1/10^th of a mole per L

 

[steenkh]

Please do ask him, When molecules of starting material (homeo medicines) were broken down in dilution number two during succession process then why you did not pick the molecules of dilution number two again as one (SINGLE) mole?" This question is very difficult to understand by you, so please forward my question to him.

You are right: I do not understand your question! Please explain what you mean by the "breaking down" of the molecules during the succusion process. Does this always happen, no matter what remedy?

Frankly speaking, is this paranormal to you?

I have already posted a list of seven reasons why homoeopathy is considered paranormal. Besides, the paranormality is irrelevant, when you can take a million dollars from JREF and distribute it to the poor or spend it on homoeopathic research. And you will probably get a Nobel prize on top of that!

 

[geni]

Dr. MAS: Gene do not waste time, and wait for professor’s answer. I know, you mental capabilities.

The name is geni. How did you find out that my IQ is 150? I'm not going to contact any professors until you can come up with something beyond the understanding of the people on this board. So far you haven't got beyond GCSE (school level) chemistry.

 

[geni]

Dr. MAS: Yes, it was a trick. It was not a miracle at all but presented in the form of "paranormal". Yes, it has simple mechanism but many of you cannot do and many cannot understand it. You must agree with that. Do you believe that everybody does understand what was done?

I suspect the vast majority of the people on this forum do.

 

[Dr. MAS]

To make it very clear, please run through a dilution to say... 12C step by step. At each step, put in the number of molecules remaining of the solute, assuming you start with one mole of them.

Dr. MAS: Highly respectable atarian, you missed everything. Please read my question again and again (10 times in the morning after breakfast and ten times after lunch. Do not read at night) Sorry just kidding … I respect your question.


Let’s wait for gene, he will forward the question to professor. He has strong believed on professor’s knowledge when the professor will reply to him then he will be normalized.

 

[Dr. MAS]

I suspect the vast majority of the people on this forum do.

Dr. MAS: that was also my point that “vast” means there is room for few. Vast does not mean “All” OK.

Sorry for misspelled name. Sorry.

 

[geni]

Let’s wait for gene, he will forward the question to professor. He has strong believed on professor’s knowledge when the professor will reply to him then he will be normalized. [/COLOR] [/B]

I'm not sending stuff to Prof Atkins. If I need to ask experts I will ask the ones at my university however the stuff you are talking about at the moment is so mind renching simple that I'm not going to waste there time.

 

[Dr. MAS]

I'm not going to contact any professors until you can come up with something beyond the understanding of the people on this board. So far you haven't got beyond GCSE (school level) chemistry.

Dr. MAS:

It was you who quoted Professor’s remarks and it was you found his remarks appropriate. You agree with professor’s opinion that is why you quoted here. So you have to contact him for further clarification. I disagree with his opinion and I rejected his research work, hence I do not find it suitable to ask him for further clarification.


I am waiting for….

 

[H'ethetheth]

Dr. MAS: Gene do not waste time, and wait for professor’s answer. I know your mental capabilities. I am in my late 50s. I am a teacher and I can judge very easily the intellectual potential of my students.

So your idea of mathematical proof (for something or other) is that the number of molecules in a mole is equal to Avogadro's number?
Thanks Doctor, thanks very much, I wasn't aware of this particular mode of deduction but I'll be sure to use it in the future when I need to prove I'm right.

Look, if there is one mole of medicine (i.e. 6 10²³ molecules) in a volume of 10⁵⁴ litres, one would expect to find a molecule in about every 10³¹ litres. In other words the chance of finding a single molecule of medicine in any litre you examine is 10^-31, which is by any means negligible. That is what Rolfe means by "nothing".
Furthermore, there is no evidence that succussion does anything but heat the water up a tiny bit.
So please stop calling everybody here stupid and start explaining, because you will never find out whether we understand if you do not try to make us understand.

 

[geni]

Dr. MAS:

It was you who quoted Professor’s remarks and it was you found his remarks appropriate. You agree with professor’s opinion that is why you quoted here. So you have to contact him for further clarification. I disagree with his opinion and I rejected his research work, hence I do not find it suitable to ask him for further clarification.

I quoted the figures from Atkins textbook that is all. All I got from Atkins textbook was that 1 mole contians 6.02214*10²³ items. Nothing more nothing less. I can find the same figure in any one of a dozen places It jsut so happens that "The Elements of physical chemistry" is the first sutible text book I had to hand.

So far you are commiting the argument by assertion logical fallacy since you have failed to show where either AtkinI or I are wrong.

 

[geni]

I am in my late 50s. I am a teacher and I can judge very easily the intellectual potential of my students. [/COLOR] [/B]

Really? From a few posts on an internet disscussion board?

 

[Dr. MAS]

You are right: I do not understand your question! Please explain what you mean by the "breaking down" of the molecules during the succusion process. Does this always happen, no matter what remedy?

I appreciate your simplicity that you accepted. Now you are more respectable person to me. I also do not know many things about homeopathy and other medical sciences but this does not mean that those points are paranormal in nature.

It is quite possible that you have very good knowledge over a issue but on that issue I am blank. It is also possible that you have a master degree on a subject but for that subject I am totally layman.

In the same sense, I have best possible degree in homeopathy according to the best available knowledge (9 to 11 years of study) but you don’t have. If I say, homeopathy is paranormal then you might consider it paranormal and but when you say it is paranormal then it does not matter because you have no knowledge of that field. Your opinion only reflects your “DISLIKENESS” with a profession and nothing else. Otherwise you have no prove.

Please try to understand homeopathy. It is not paranormal. I assure you, you will change your mind, when you will start reading it or trying to understand it. And for understanding homeopathy you need to be studied all subjects related to medical science plus few subjects like physics and bio-chemistry.

 

[EHocking]

GENI said: Any remedy of higher potency than 12C or 24X will have a mean concentration of less than one molecule per remedy. Is there any part of this sentance you do not understand?

Dr. MAS: Yes, I as a pure scientific research officer and real homeopath (qualified in all respect and in all categories, 11 years of continuous and regular study and having all homeopathic certifications) wants to tell you that your information is absolutely WRONG.

Please tell me, why do you believe so “Any remedy of higher potency than 12C or 24X will have a mean concentration of less than one molecule per remedy”, who told you that there is no molecule in above 24X potency? Any strong reason to believe?

Which electron microscope you used and found nothing? which confirmative method you used and got no result of molecules? Did you see yourself? I am waiting.

You claim Geni's statement is wrong.

Can you provide electron microscope images confirming the existence of even one molecule of a mother tincture in a 12C or 24X homeopathic solution?

The onus is on YOU to backup your statement that Geni is WRONG.

 

[Kumar]

Dr. MAS: that was also my point that “vast” means there is room for few. Vast does not mean “All” OK.

Yes, molecule/s can exist in every potency provided if molecule/s are always transferd to every next potency till last potency. Few or some molecules can not be bigger than 1 part of every potency--so possibility is there alike room for few in "vast".

GOD/Belief/nature/sprits can be helping for those molecules to exist in every potency, homeopathy as well.

 

[Rolfe]

Yes, it was a trick. It was not a miracle at all but presented in the form of "paranormal". Yes, it has simple mechanism but many of you cannot do and many cannot understand it. You must agree with that. Do you believe that everybody does understand what was done?

So, we can write that one off as a bad analogy, I take it.

The idea was to show that something quite simple and quite natural may be mistaken for paranormal by simple people. And from this we conclude that homoeopathy is quite simple and quite natural? I think not.

Were the analogy to be valid, you might expect that it would be the sceptics who would be labelling the trick "paranormal", and the wise homoeopaths who could see the natural explanation. But on the contrary, we see from the links that many homoeopaths were entirely taken in, while all the sceptics in the discussion (starting with Starburn) saw immediately that it was just a variation on the well-known "ship-in-a-bottle" novelty.

I can't of course speak for everyone on this forum - there is no doubt there are some very peculiar people here. However, I think it's a reasonable guess that everyone participating in this thread understands very well how the trick is done, and could duplicate it with a bit of practice.

Thus, if the intent is to demonstrate that there is an equally simple explanation for how homoeopathy works, then it is time to come to that.

So far, you're not doing very well.

Rolfe.