Mojo said:Kumar, please describe the test you would use. Just saying "test bottle & remedies as per your system" is no good. Scientific theory says that there is none of the original tincture left in the preparation. All properly carried out scientific testing has indicated that there is none of the original tincture left in the preparation, and that the remedy is indistinguishable from the pure solvent used to prepare it.
First tell, do you want to learn, teach, joke, insult, entertain,time pass, remain only pro, just do TTTT etc?
Pls provide some valid links which gives details of scientific testing as you are telling. Pls give with complete testing details unabling me to locate where molecules, its traces, its changes....have lost.
Incidentally, the fact that you are still suggesting that testing the bottle could tell us something about what might be in the remedy indicates that you have totally failed to take on board what I have repeatedly told you: THE ONLY WAY TO TEST THE COMPOSITION OF A HOMEOPATHIC REMEDY IS TO CARRY OUT TESTS ON THE REMEDY ITSELF! Not tests on the bottle it was prepared in, the marble tiles on the floor or the horse you rode in on.
TEST THE REMEDY!
The method you describe, using dirty glassware to introduce contaminants at later stages of the process, would be regarded as clearly incompetent in any real science. The fact that you are unable to see this tells me something about you.
PLEASE DESCRIBE THE TEST YOU WOULD USE TO DETERMINE THE PRESENCE OF MOLECULES FROM THE ORIGINAL TINCTURE IN HIGH-DILUTION HOMEOPATHIC REMEDIES! If anyone has carried out the test and reported their results, please provide references.
This can be a process, not dirty. Do you have this type of dirt(as you say or MUD) in your pro-system?
Yes,TEST THE REMEDY!
Competiting/goverments authorities have given you so much money, means, labs etc. for your duty to check all mass......which can be substancialy benefit to humanity, when checked by you.
THIS CAN BE YOUR SOLE DUTY IN RETURN OF MEANS & POWER GIVEN TO YOU/RS, TO CHECK EVERY MASS........SYSTEM, WHICH 'CAN BE BENEFICIAL TO HUMANITY (May not to some) IN TONNES', IF YOU COULD DO SOMETHING. IT IS IN THE INTEREST OF ALL(minus few yours) EXCEPT TO HOMEOPATHY, SO WHY ARE YOU SLEEPING/LAZY AS YET. DON"T YOU REALLY TRY OR TRY VERY HARD FOR IT. WHY??????
Good Luck.
One Million Rupees Offer to prove "Homeopathy is Paranormal"
- Thread starter Dr. MAS
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Is today "Kumar points out every single fault he has" day?Kumar said:
Kumar, skeptics are perfectly willing to be proven wrong. You only need to supply evidence, something which you so far have been unable to do. Don't feel bad, no homeopath has.
You, on the other hand, have shown yourself to be completely preconvinced that homeopathy works, and that the answer to how it works must be found. You come up with these theories, and no amount of evidence or explanation can show you when you are wrong.
Lets see, what's left. Hey, how about you start claiming I accuse you of having "vested interests"?
Kumar said:
Kumar, is there any special reason why you choose to ignore the fact that dilution like this is taking place in labs all over the world, thousands of times a day and that each and every time it works as expected? And yes, the results are recorded. They all say the same thing that "if you dilute 1:100, the resulting mixture has a concentration of 1/100th of the original.
...and of course, regardless of that, remedies has never been proven to have any effect except placebo.
I still think it's silica...
Kumar said:
Excuse me you funny little guy. Noone from the sceptic side has "assumed" anything, nothing has been "hypothetical" that you have been told. It is you that choose to not listen to the evidence when they doesn't fit your current pet theory.
Mojo
Mostly harmless
No, I am just trying to get you to post some evidence to back up your ridiculous theories. If you can't provide evidence, I would like you to suggest some method by which someone else could obtain the evidence you require (if they feel so inclined). The fact that you consider this to be "TTTT" merely shows that you are completely divorced from reality.Kumar said:
I am unaware of any tests that will detect molecules from the original "active" ingredient in a homeopathic remedy. I think that this is because there are no molecules of the original "active" ingredient present in a homeopathic remedy of the dilution being discussed here. In fact, I think the homeopathic remedy, if competently prepared, will be entirely indistinguishable from the pure solvent.
You are claiming that the molecules are still present, and that a homeopathic remedy can be distinguished from a sample of its solvent. It is therefore up to YOU to come up with a test that will back up your claim.
I have not been provided with any resources whatsoever for this. Why do you claim that I have? Do you have any evidence for this?
No, Kumar, it is your duty to try to substantiate your claims, especially if you think that they will be so beneficial to mankind. I spent years studying science, and have a degree to prove it. You on the other hand, seem entirely unwilling to carry out any organised or coherent course of study, and seem totally unwilling to do any work to demonstrate that your "wonderful" healing system does anything at all. Who is lazy here? (Hint: I think it's you)
Kumar, as requested, serial dilutions made easy, take your pick:
First one
Second one
Third one
And some other relevant stuff:
Klaus Linde et al.: Impact of study quality on outcome in placebo-controlled trials of homeopathy. J. Clin. Epidemiol. 52, 631-636, 1999.
E. Ernst: A systematic review of systematic reviews of homeopathy. Br. J. Clin. Pharmacol. 54(6), 577-582, 2002
And before you mention it:
Maddox, J., Randi, J. och Stewart, W. W. "High-dilution" experiments a delusion. Nature 334, 287-290, 1988. Critique of experiments reported by J. Benveniste and coworkers (Davenas et al., Nature 333, 816-818, 1988).
You might also try this which is relevant to your case:
serial delusion
First one
Second one
Third one
And some other relevant stuff:
Klaus Linde et al.: Impact of study quality on outcome in placebo-controlled trials of homeopathy. J. Clin. Epidemiol. 52, 631-636, 1999.
E. Ernst: A systematic review of systematic reviews of homeopathy. Br. J. Clin. Pharmacol. 54(6), 577-582, 2002
And before you mention it:
Maddox, J., Randi, J. och Stewart, W. W. "High-dilution" experiments a delusion. Nature 334, 287-290, 1988. Critique of experiments reported by J. Benveniste and coworkers (Davenas et al., Nature 333, 816-818, 1988).
You might also try this which is relevant to your case:
serial delusion
Badly Shaved Monkey
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
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Kumar said:Then probably, part excitations, flying molecules, reflected effects, just carriers & contaminations effects, feeling/thinking alike effector otherwise will have to be thought/ researched. Many prople trying for science, you also try. Don't you have any idea, even hypothetical?
Secondary issue about effect with traces can be pursued in science, when prime issue of information stored will be solved--about molecular or its traces presence OR/and its colours, shape/pattern/position/forces change.
Can it by, some change in shape/pattern/position/forces of remedy's or carrier's molecules on doing so much hard work by homeopaths during potentisation?
[/B]
Pls avoid "assumptions" , "hypotheticals", mean all vauge aspects, when talking from science side.
Mojo
Mostly harmless
I think maybe you've misunderstood Kumar. I think that by "from science side" he meant everyone else on the forum. He, on the other hand, is from the "complete cobblers" side and so can be as vague and hypothetical as he likes.Badly Shaved Monkey said:
Sorry, No link looks to be relavent. Cn you explain what you mean by these links?Jocce said:
Now, suppose we heat a bottle to some degree & put IC potency solution when hot, then shake & cool, will something happen for enhancing the adhesions of molecule of IC solution to glass?
Furthur, I hope you may not be having any dispute in case of TRS triturations as pestles/mortars/equipments can be quite porus to hold some molecules & carry over on triturating.
One more; Mr. hans previously told somewhat; photons can be bigger/larger than molecules(?)--but photons as light can pass through the glass of bottles. Then????
That's not what he said. He said that the wavelength of visible light is larger than most molecules. There's a difference. I'll let you research it.Kumar said:
Regarding glass, remember about energies and absorption spectrums and such? As it turns out, glass does not absorb visible light. Plus, its molecules are arranged in a random manner, which help the photons pass through.
Mojo
Mostly harmless
As Donks has already observed, today seems to be "Kumar points out every single fault he has" day!Kumar said:
Is this procedure (heating and cooling) carried out during preparation of homeopathic remedies? If not, this is irrelevant to the properties of homeopathic remedies.
Can you provide a link to where Hans said that photons are bigger than molecules? (Hint: I'm sure he didn't)
Donks said:
I got mr hans posting;
quote:
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Originally posted by MRC_Hans in Questions about Senses, Taste & Smell? page2
Much different. Practically all molecules are much smaller than the wavelenght of visible light, so a light wave will rarely interact with a single molecule at all. This is the reason you cannot see molecules with visual microscopes.
When a substance reflects light and becomes visible, it is a result of the molecule structure on the macro scale. The color and appearance of an object can depend entirely on the molecule structure. For instance, the colors of butterfly wings are not the result of different pigments; the little scales on the butterfly wing are really the same, but their structure makes them reflect light differently.
Hans
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Donks said:
This is your field.
How these can be relevant to least molecular presence;
Arndt's law, Arndt-Schulz law, weak stimuli increase physiologic activity and very strong stimuli inhibit or abolish activity.
all or none law 1. the principle that the heart muscle, under whatever stimulus, will contract to the fullest extent or not at all; stimulation of any single atrial or ventricular muscle fiber causes the action potential to travel over the entire atrial or ventricular mass, or not to travel at all. 2. in muscles other than cardiac muscle, and in nerves, stimulation of an individual fiber causes an action potential to travel over the entire fiber or not to travel at all.
Allen's paradoxic law, whereas in normal individuals the more sugar is given the more is utilized, the reverse is true in diabetics.
Draper's law, only the rays that are absorbed by a photochemical substance will produce a chemical change in it.
http://www.merckmedicus.com/pp/us/h...docs/us/common/dorlands/dorland/dmd-l-008.htm
http://www.mercksource.com/pp/us/cn...zdorlandszSzdorlandzSzdmd_l_04zPzhtm#10070518
Many other laws, rules, theories can e relevany by thinking bit dynamically.
What is this:-
Dollo's law, phyletic development is irreversible, i.e., reversion to an ancestral peculiarity (atavism) is impossible.
Horner's law, ordinary color blindness is transmitted from males to males through normal females.
Actually, it is not. And if you ever wish to get taken seriously, you need to start doing some actual work here.Kumar said:
I don't care. It is your job to relate your new concepts to your old theories.
Unless you can come up with evidence that homeopathy works, then I'll be glad to help you seach for how it works.