MaGZ: There were no missiles, here is proof.

[twinstead]

You are not being intellectually honest. I think you are seeing what you want to see.

Pot, meet kettle. Kettle, pot.

 

[MaGZ]

So an F-16 shot at a jumbo jet with a sidewinder, missed and hit a parking lot? Aside from the direction and tracking problems, a 20lb warhead should have... well, left a modest crater in the blacktop and pushed a few cars out of the way.

Or are you suggesting that an air to ground missile was used, which would have created a BIG crater and blown the cars near the impact sight onto their roofs?

Neither theory is supported by your pictures, but I am a bit curious.

The black crater is in the NOAA satellite photo. If someone could crop this image and enlarge it then everyone would see what I am talking about.
A smaller image of the black carter is presented in the main article.

The Missiles at Ground Zero
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=10058

I do not know about missile munitions or the type of craters they would make. Here is some hard evidence: the black crater. Those familiar with missile explosions can take some measurements and come to some conclusions.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

I don't know what you mean by "overpressure damage."

Did you see the black circular crater behind the row of burnt vehicles in the NOAA satellite photo?

Overpressure damage is the result of the shockwave generated by high explosives.
Example

Inflicting Damage: WDU-17/B Warhead

The current Sidewinder, as well as its replacement, the AIM-9X, carries the 20-pound (9-kg) WDU-17/B warhead. The WDU-17/B consists of a case assembly, a good amount of PBXN-3 high explosive, booster plates, an initiator device and nearly 200 titanium fragmentation rods. When the target detector senses the enemy aircraft, it activates the fuze mechanism, which sends an explosive charge through the initiator (a train of low-explosive material) to the booster plates. The explosive charge from the initiator ignites low-explosive material in the booster plate channels, which ignites explosive pellets surrounding the high-explosive material. The pellets ignite the high explosive, causing it to release a huge amount of hot gas in a short amount of time.
The powerful explosive force from this expanding gas blasts the titanium rods outward, breaking them apart to form thousands of metal pieces, all zipping through the air at top speed. If the warhead goes off within range of the target, the speeding titanium fragments will break apart the enemy aircraft's fuselage. In some cases, the missile may go right up the target's tailpipe, demolishing the aircraft from the inside. The WDU-17/B is referred to as an annular blast fragmentation warhead because the explosive force carries the metal fragments outward in all directions, in an annular, or ring-shaped, pattern.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/sidewinder8.htm

I've emphasised where the overpressure comes in to play in the quote.

The shockwave can be observed in this video:


Air-to-air missiles work via overpressure and shrapnel, not Hollywood-esque, gasoline fueled fireballs. Additionally, and again unlike in Hollywood, a parking-lot of cars will not explode in series as they burn.

 

[MaGZ]

double post

 

[MaGZ]

I guess Maverick needs to head back to Top Gun for refresher training. Then we need to find parts of the missile, then backlog a bit to find out what jet it was fired from and find out the pilot who is soley responsible for blowing up a perfectly good building.

Yes, this is possible.

The pilots were Lieutenant Colonel Timothy Duffy and Major Daniel Nash.

"Profile: Otis Air National Guard Base," cooperativeresearch.org
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity....onal_guard_base
"Otis Fighters Scramble to New York; Conflicting Accounts of Urgency and Destination," cooperativeresearch.org
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context...a852otistakeoff

 

[coalesce]

My explanation is that the invisible fire pixies started it.

And they would have gotten away with it if not for you meddling kids!

Michael

 

[Unsecured Coins]

http://www.buildthememorial.org/site/PageServer?pagename=Story_TimD

So... when did he fire the missile again?

 

[volatile]

The black crater is in the NOAA satellite photo. If someone could crop this image and enlarge it then everyone would see what I am talking about.
A smaller image of the black carter is presented in the main article.

The Missiles at Ground Zero
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=10058

Remember what I said about not trusting information on how horrible the Jews are from a source who openly admits to making up stuff about how horrible Jews are for ideological gain?

I do not know about missile munitions or the type of craters they would make. Here is some hard evidence: the black crater. Those familiar with missile explosions can take some measurements and come to some conclusions.

So - you know nothing about missiles, nor what damage from a missile looks like, but you can deduce missile strikes from looking at pictures of damage?

How does that work, then?

 

[Lucas]

I don't know what you mean by "overpressure damage."

Did you see the black circular crater behind the row of burnt vehicles in the NOAA satellite photo?

When an explosion occurs there is a pressure wave caused by the explosion. The larger the explosion, the larger the shockwave. When you see cars being overturned by bombs in movies, it's not just because it's fun. It's because it's a logical effect of an explosion - pressure going outwards.

A missile would definitely have *moved* cars, not just burn them. Why don't you check it out on wikipedia?

You are not being intellectually honest. I think you are seeing what you want to see.

Oh, and you aren't? Why do you refuse to see that you're only clinging to your theory because you're a stubborn intellectual coward?

 

[Stellafane]

And they would have gotten away with it if not for you meddling kids!

Michael

Wait...wait!....WAIT!!! I FINALLY GET IT!!!! The scales have fallen from my eyes!! it's all so clear now!!! At last I see what this whole sorry 9/11 twoofer thing is about, all of it, from A to Z, Avery to Zero (ground), Loose Change, no-planes, thermite, Judy Wood, the Jones gangs, Killtown, JDX, the whole lunacy-palooza:

THEY ALL WANT TO BE SCOOBIE DOOO!!!!

Riding around forever in the Mystery Van, with Daphne and/or Fred at their side, pulling the Osama masks off Cheney and the Joos...finally at one with their childhood heros!!

 

[MaGZ]

Remember what I said about not trusting information on how horrible the Jews are from a source who openly admits to making up stuff about how horrible Jews are for ideological gain?




So - you know nothing about missiles, nor what damage from a missile looks like, but you can deduce missile strikes from looking at pictures of damage?

How does that work, then?

Talk a look at the black crater pictured in the article then get back to me.

 

[Unsecured Coins]

Wait...wait!....WAIT!!! I FINALLY GET IT!!!! The scales have fallen from my eyes!! it's all so clear now!!! At last I see what this whole sorry 9/11 twoofer thing is about, all of it, from A to Z, Avery to Zero (ground), Loose Change, no-planes, thermite, Judy Wood, the Jones gangs, Killtown, JDX, the whole lunacy-palooza:

THEY ALL WANT TO BE SCOOBIE DOOO!!!!

Riding around forever in the Mystery Van, with Daphne and/or Fred at their side, pulling the Osama masks off Cheney and the Joos...finally at one with their childhood heros!!

my brain stem just detonated

 

[Unsecured Coins]

Talk a look

wheel do

 

[volatile]

Talk a look at the black crater pictured in the article then get back to me.

Aside from the fact I'd rather not put traffic to National Vanguard, ta very much (you haven't addressed why you take their "information" seriously in the first place), I don't know what missile damage looks like either.

So, there's a crater. I'll take your word for it, darling. I'm sure it looks very much like what I imagine a missile crater to look like, having never seen a missile crater in person myself. Does that prove a missile strike? From what others more knowledgeable about missiles than you or I have just posted on this very page of this very thread, I'm guessing not.

Did you learn everything you know about the world from Sylvester Stallone movies?

 

[Alareth]

If he ignores this, it's just laughable.

I take it you've never had a disscussion of evidence with a member of the "truth" movement?

 

[MaGZ]

So now we are all in agreement.

The black missile crater exists.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

So now we are all in agreement.

The black missile crater exists.

 

[Kiwiwriter]

Well-researched? Really?

I have never suggested the fighters just happened to be flying over NYC. They were sent there from Otis Air National Guard Base and flew at supersonic speed to get there.
As far a heat seeking missiles go–I don’t know–perhaps they were another type of missile.
I think this article is well researched.

The Missiles at Ground Zero
http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=10058

How about all their other articles on Holocaust denial, Zionist conspiracies, Jewish crime and pornography, and the rehabilitation of Adolf Hitler? Is that all accurate, too?

So when are you going to share with us how you got into Nazism, your thoughts about Jews, what you think of "Mein Kampf," and what you think the "Final Solution to the Jewish Question" should be?

Or more to the point...who's a cooler neo-Nazi leader, Jeff Schoep or Kevin Strom? Which of the two would be better at running a rally? A flame war? A bratwurst barbecue? A nation?

Still evading my questions, I see.

C'mon, MaGZ, you're a front-line warrior for the Aryan race! Hitler took on the world! What, you're afraid of a bunch of Jewish hoodlums, gangsters, and government shills at the J-REF forum? What would Himmler think?

 

[Firestone]

The pilots were Lieutenant Colonel Timothy Duffy and Major Daniel Nash.

Well, did you read this?

http://www.buildthememorial.org/site/PageServer?pagename=Story_TimD

So... when did he fire the missile again?

From Unsecured Coins excellent source, I'll quote one sentence from Lieutenant Colonel Timothy Duffy fascinating testimony:

About 60 or 70 miles out of New York City, I requested information on the aircraft we were trying to track. I was told at that point that a second aircraft had hit the WTC.

Is he lying?

 

[Z]

Is he referring to the small semi-swirl of black near the back row of cars? The one that's maybe 8-10 ft. in diameter? The one close enough to the cars that, if it HAD been a missile, would have tossed those closest cars 40-50 feet away?

Definitely not a missile crater. Not that my statements count for anything, but I've been in the U.S. Army Field Artillery for 10 years, and I've seen the results of missiles, bombs, rockets, mortars, shells, C-4, etc. This ain't it.

You COULD get a black scorch like that from an incendiary grenade... did those fighter pilots pop their cockpits and chuck grenades at the towers?

I'd suggest that, due to the dark nature of the scorch, it was probably burning rubble. Something with lots of carbon in it, definitely. But explosive? Absolutely not.