MaGZ: There were no missiles, here is proof.

[Kiwiwriter]

Yeah, he knows it...

National Vanguard? The holocaust-denying, white-power racist scumbags? The same group that went to New Orleans after Katrina hit and tried to give aid only to white people?



You realise this is the same organisation that advocates that white people pretend to be Jewish whilst acting obnoxiously in order to stir up hatred of the Jews? You don't think this could be more of the same type of false reporting designed to inflame anti-Semitic, racist sentiment for an ideological (and not empirical) end? You get your information from them? You wouldn't take something spat out by a reprehensible, ridiculous ideology like that with just a little pinch of salt?

Yes, he knows that it's a violently anti-Semitic and racist organization. That's why he quotes from it. He's an angry anti-Semite, too. It backs up his mind-set and fills him with new notions on the same line.

He just can't stand here in this group and say openly, "I'm a jackboot-wearing, brown-shirted Nazi, who thinks the Holocaust never happened, but was a terrific thing, and Hitler is a nice guy who was good to his dog and his old mother, and the Nazi state is the final solution to humanity's problems."

He knows that if when he says that, aside from at rallies behind a 100 cops, or beer and bratwurst busts with like-minded junior Fascists, he'll get laughed and hissed out of the room. Of course, he'll blame that not on his adherence to a ghastly philosophy, but on the Jews. So he's figured out part of the answer, but the wrong part, and for the wrong reasons.

 

[Z]

You know, there's a simple way to deal with it - use the FoI act and request the munitions inventories for those aircraft. The military keeps meticulous track of every bullet it fires in the U.S., and doubly so for large munitions.

 

[MaGZ]

Well, did you read this?

From Unsecured Coins excellent source, I'll quote one sentence from Lieutenant Colonel Timothy Duffy fascinating testimony:Is he lying?

I don’t find it believable he saw both towers burning from a distance. He said he left Otis at 8:46 and flew toward NYC supersonic. Others have done the math and at that speed he is over NYC at 9:03. You can conclude what you like, I have.

 

[Firestone]

I don’t find it believable he saw both towers burning from a distance. He said he left Otis at 8:46 and flew toward NYC supersonic. Others have done the math and at that speed he is over NYC at 9:03. You can conclude what you like, I have.

The ease with which people like you accuse others of lying and of crimes without the slighest evidence is something I'll never understand.

This is the chasm between us.

 

[MaGZ]

Is he referring to the small semi-swirl of black near the back row of cars? The one that's maybe 8-10 ft. in diameter? The one close enough to the cars that, if it HAD been a missile, would have tossed those closest cars 40-50 feet away?

Definitely not a missile crater. Not that my statements count for anything, but I've been in the U.S. Army Field Artillery for 10 years, and I've seen the results of missiles, bombs, rockets, mortars, shells, C-4, etc. This ain't it.

You COULD get a black scorch like that from an incendiary grenade... did those fighter pilots pop their cockpits and chuck grenades at the towers?

I'd suggest that, due to the dark nature of the scorch, it was probably burning rubble. Something with lots of carbon in it, definitely. But explosive? Absolutely not.

It is interesting this black crater is in the middle row of the burnt vehicles. The flame is coming from the crater.
http://img431.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00105gh0.jpg

 

[MaGZ]

The ease with which people like you accuse others of lying and of crimes without the slighest evidence is something I'll never understand.

This is the chasm between us.

The evidence is the fighters were over NYC just moments after the second plane hit WTC 2. They were just near NYC to get to missiles launched but missed. They were following orders then as they are following orders now. I do not fault them in their attempt to bring down the second plane.

Newark NJ air traffic controller, Bob Varcapade, said the fighters were over New York City moments after the second plane crashed in to WTC 2.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14754701/

 

[volatile]

It is interesting this black crater is in the middle row of the burnt vehicles. The flame is coming from the crater.
http://img431.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00105gh0.jpg

See, you quoted from that message, but I don't think you actually read it.

Bad form, old chap.

 

[MaGZ]

See, you quoted from that message, but I don't think you actually read it.

Bad form, old chap.

I read it.

The only explanation for the black crater is a missile explosion.

 

[Firestone]

The evidence is the fighters were over NYC just moments after the second plane hit WTC 2. They were just near NYC to get to missiles launched but missed. They were following orders then as they are following orders now. I do not fault them in their attempt to bring down the second plane.

Go and tell Lieutenant Colonel Timothy Duffy face to face what you say about him. Tell him you claim here and on other forums that he is a liar.

Oh, I think he is a buddy of Buzz Aldrin, but don't let that stop you.

 

[coalesce]

Wait...wait!....WAIT!!! I FINALLY GET IT!!!! The scales have fallen from my eyes!! it's all so clear now!!! At last I see what this whole sorry 9/11 twoofer thing is about, all of it, from A to Z, Avery to Zero (ground), Loose Change, no-planes, thermite, Judy Wood, the Jones gangs, Killtown, JDX, the whole lunacy-palooza:

THEY ALL WANT TO BE SCOOBIE DOOO!!!!

Riding around forever in the Mystery Van, with Daphne and/or Fred at their side, pulling the Osama masks off Cheney and the Joos...finally at one with their childhood heros!!

Rex-RAK-Ree!!

Michael

 

[MaGZ]

Go and tell Lieutenant Colonel Timothy Duffy face to face what you say about him. Tell him you claim here and on other forums that he is a liar.

Oh, I think he is a buddy of Buzz Aldrin, but don't let that stop you.

I think Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong did land on the moon.

 

[volatile]

I read it.

The only explanation for the black crater is a missile explosion.

I'm gonna call troll in a second, loverboy.

Did you read the bit that said quite categorically why it wasn't a missile? I think we can add "illiteracy" to "anti-Semitism" and "ignorance" in your list of obvious flaws.

 

[Z]

It is interesting this black crater is in the middle row of the burnt vehicles. The flame is coming from the crater.
http://img431.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00105gh0.jpg

That image shows flame, yes, and a lot of smoke; but no signs a high explosive was used. And that would be the back row, not the 'middle row'. That is, I don't see a row of cars BEHIND the flame; do you?

In fact, that image even more clearly demonstrates this was not a missile strike, as there would be cars tossed as far as the front row; those cars next to the crater weren't filled with tons of steel, were they?

 

[Kiwiwriter]

Good!

I think Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong did land on the moon.

So, next questions...do you think Hitler and the Nazi state killed millions of Jews in what historians define as "The Holocaust?"

And do you think it was

1. A cruel and hideous act of genocidal mass murder?
2. A necessary but harsh measure to create a new Order and save the white race?
3. A heroic act of ethnic cleansing of a sub-human species by an Aryan elite?

Let's go, MaGZ...the entire world is waiting for your leadership!

 

[Z]

I read it.

The only explanation for the black crater is a missile explosion.

But that's not a black crater; merely a 8-10 foot spot of soot or burnt debris.

'Crater' is a term used to denote a DEPRESSION in the ground, which is caused by the rapid expulsion of material from the point of explosion. The resulting shockwave (and expulsion of material) would have flung those cars aside over dozens of feet and resulted in everything in the vicinity to be showered with concrete debris; further, any CRATER would have shown the underlying strata, while this appears to show MORE CONCRETE beneath the black smear.

May I suggest seeing your optometrist?

 

[MaGZ]

That image shows flame, yes, and a lot of smoke; but no signs a high explosive was used. And that would be the back row, not the 'middle row'. That is, I don't see a row of cars BEHIND the flame; do you?

In fact, that image even more clearly demonstrates this was not a missile strike, as there would be cars tossed as far as the front row; those cars next to the crater weren't filled with tons of steel, were they?

To disregard the missile theory you would have to suggest a flaming projectile came from WTC 1. Such a claim would be ridiculous at that distance.

http://img431.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00054df9.jpg

 

[MaGZ]

But that's not a black crater; merely a 8-10 foot spot of soot or burnt debris.

'Crater' is a term used to denote a DEPRESSION in the ground, which is caused by the rapid expulsion of material from the point of explosion. The resulting shockwave (and expulsion of material) would have flung those cars aside over dozens of feet and resulted in everything in the vicinity to be showered with concrete debris; further, any CRATER would have shown the underlying strata, while this appears to show MORE CONCRETE beneath the black smear.

May I suggest seeing your optometrist?

It looks like a black crater to me. Others here are welcome to comment.

 

[HyJinX]

Missile = ridiculous, MagZ. I can completely comprehend debris fall that distance from the tower. A plane traveling hundreds of MPH hits a building and sprays debris everywhere. Makes sense to me. How far from the closest tower is your mystery hole?

 

[Z]

To disregard the missile theory you would have to suggest a flaming projectile came from WTC 1. Such a claim would be ridiculous at that distance.

http://img431.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00054df9.jpg

Nonsense. Debris from the airplane impact was found even further away. Consider that these airliners hit the buildings at over 400 MPH (correct me if I'm wrong), and the building didn't just stop them dead; the kinetic energy alone could easily be enough to hurl flaming debris over a vast distance.

If you doubt this, please provide the following:

1) Distance from WTC1 to the parking lot in these photos;
2) Your calculations for how much kinetic energy would be required to send a piece of flaming debris that distance;
3) Your calculations for the maximum available kinetic energy provided by the aircract impact to WTC1, applicable to debris of the necessary mass to create the relatively small black soot mark on the ground.

As it is, my point is that it could not have been a missile attack. This much I know from a decade of experience working with military munitions. I suggest that it looks like soot from burning rubble, but I will happily admit I don't know if that's what caused it. But the point is, the missile strike theory is debunked. You may attempt some OTHER theory, if you like, but demanding that I explain how flaming wreckage can be flung such a distance in no way supports your now debunked missile theory.

 

[MaGZ]

Missile = ridiculous, MagZ. I can completely comprehend debris fall that distance from the tower. A plane traveling hundreds of MPH hits a building and sprays debris everywhere. Makes sense to me. How far from the closest tower is your mystery hole?

It looks like hundreds of yards. I could see small debris traveling that distance but not a lot of massive burning material. The burning floors of WTC 1 fell onto WTC 6 creating that huge hole in the center of the building and setting it on fire. Burning portions of WTC 1 would have only fallen onto WTC 6, not the empty parking area hundreds of yards away.