How the Shanksville Crater Was Made

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yankee451 said:
If my measurements seem off, please correct them. If 18 inches seems wrong for the measurements of a person's shoulders, sing out. If a two lane road doesn't measure 20 feet, don't take my word for it, do the research to correct me.

I was being generous with these measurements, but if you think they're wrong, by all means, show me where 127 feet of wing disappeared into the ground, including the road base (which are usually crushed rock).

If I'm wrong, show me where.

Do something other than mock.

[qimg]http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/120-feet.png[/qimg]
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...upon how many assumptions does your "analysis" depend?
...how do you account for the actual, objective evidence your "analysis" ignores, or lies about?
 
phunk said:
Road base? Of an unpaved dirt road? That the plane didn't crash on?

I don't know if you've noticed, but the road ends about where you "measured" the "20 feet".
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Average lane size on rural roads is about 10 feet, average shoulder width of a human male is about 17-18 inches.
 
Slowvehicle said:
...upon how many assumptions does your "analysis" depend?
...how do you account for the actual, objective evidence your "analysis" ignores, or lies about?
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How wide is an average human's shoulder width? How wide is the average lane size of a rural road?

If you don't like my estimates, use the telephone pole. Any way you like.
 
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Furi said:
Why not use the dimensions between the powerlines adusted for angle, as a source of distance, as at the minute a 6" difference on the initial 10' line is a 6' difference on the measurement.
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Show me.
 
yankee451 said:
Waiting for your corrected measurements - I've got no problem with admitting error, so what are you waiting for. The jet's wingspan was 127 feet.

120-feet.png
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My measurements:
The red line is not 10 feet, it is 10.402777 feet.
The orange line is not 20 feet, it is 20.805555 feet
The green line is not 120 feet it is 6 x 20.805555 feet = 124.833333 feet, or the wingspan of flight 93 - 124 feet 10 inches.
 
Everyone keeps stating as fact that the gash fits the wing span of a 757.

What's the average shoulder width? How close do you stand to someone when you're talking to them? 6 inches?

What color is the sky in your world? I really wanna know.
 
BasqueArch said:
My measurements:
The red line is not 10 feet, it is 10.402777 feet.
The orange line is not 20 feet, it is 20.805555 feet
The green line is not 120 feet it is 6 x 20.805555 feet = 124.833333 feet, or the wingspan of flight 93 - 124 feet 10 inches.
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You're going backwards.
 
yankee451 said:
Average lane size on rural roads is about 10 feet, average shoulder width of a human male is about 17-18 inches.
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What's the average lane size of a public road have to do with a dirt road on private property?

How are you measuring their shoulders? Can you even see which direction they are facing? Can you tell what angle the picture was taken from?

Why is the line you drew on the crater made of segments that aren't at the correct angle and aren't connected?

What's the margin of error on ANY of your "measurements"? Do you understand that for ever foot you are off on the "20 feet" measurement, your measurement of the crater is off by 6 feet?

Can you really be confident in your estimate if you can't answer any of those questions?
 
chris lz said:
Yankee,

I've read your comments over 20 pages that the crater doesn't look right for a 757 crash. What I'm not quite getting is, what specific physics rules it out?

Thanks
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yankee451 said:
Had you read the whole thread you woudn't be asking.
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I also read the whole thread and I too am keen for you to explain exactly what physics rules out the 757-sized crater (full of 757 debris, surrounded by more 757 debris, in a spot to which a 757 was tracked by radar and in which the 757's FDR was recovered) from being a 757 crash site.

It would be great if you would take a moment to explain the physics briefly.
 
Irrelevant
Irrelevant
Irrelevant

Precision regarding the crater size is irrelevant.


Originally Posted by yankee451 View Post
Doesn't look like it would do it, and then you'd still need to explain where the darned jet went. Do you know when that picture was taken?

http://yankee451.com/wp-content/uplo...7/120-feet.png
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Excellent, why use accurate measurements when, with a bit of effort, you can create inaccurate ones?

Way to go. I'm quoting this picture for posterity.

Oh, and another thing. IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW WIDE THE CRATER IS.

I'll say it again: IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW WIDE THE CRATER IS.

Why doesn't it matter? Because the crater doesn't contain the entirety of the aircraft because the aircraft fragmented violently upon impact, hence the vast debris field around the crash site.

So, let's cease this ludicrous crater size meme - it's a contrivance to use as an excuse a la OJ Simpson - "if it don't fit, you must acquit".

And here's the real story re the crash debris, courtesy of Wiki:​


Flight 93 fragmented violently upon impact.

Most of the aircraft wreckage was found near the impact crater.[79] Investigators found some very light debris including paper and nylon scattered up to eight miles (13 km) from the impact point in New Baltimore, Pennsylvania.[80] Other tiny aircraft fragments were found 1.5 miles (2.4 km) away at Indian Lake, Pennsylvania.[81]

All human remains were found within a 70-acre (28 ha) area surrounding the impact point.[81] Somerset County Coroner Wally Miller was involved in the investigation and identification of the remains. In examining the wreckage, the only human body part he could see was part of a backbone.[82] Miller later found and identified 1,500 pieces of human remains totaling about 600 pounds (272 kg), or eight percent of the total.[83] The rest of the remains were consumed by the impact.[84]

Investigators identified four victims by September 22 and eleven by September 24.[85][86] They identified another by September 29.[87] Thirty-four passengers were identified by October 27.[88] All the people on board the flight were identified by December 21.

Human remains were so fragmented that investigators could not determine whether any victims were dead before the plane crashed. Death certificates for the 40 victims listed the cause of death as homicide and listed the cause of death for the four hijackers as suicide.[89] The remains and personal effects of the victims were returned to the families.[90]

The remains of the hijackers, identified by the process of elimination, were turned over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) as evidence.​
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yankee451 said:
You first. You're the one who claims it's possible. I'm the one who has a better explanation.
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Sure. Although I've made no claim whatsoever about what's possible, and it's definitely you who has the burden of proof as the claimant that the parsimonious explanation won't do.

But nevertheless:

A man steered an aeroplane towards the ground. He rolled it about 3/4 of the way over on its back before it hit the ground. It made an aeroplane-shaped crater. The fuel from the aeroplane set some trees on fire. People found bits of the aeroplane buried in the hole and more bits scattered all around the site.

I hope none of that was unclear. I believe each element of the above is possible and does not contradict any known laws of physics.

Your turn. Which part of the above is a physical impossibility?
 
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