Debunking Reincarnation?

[Maeria]

I don't know whether the title is appropriate, as the last time I checked, there wasn't any proof/conclusive proof of survival of the personality after death, let alone said personality somehow returning, but I really need some help with a fellow student.

My Biology teacher for my first semester in college was emphatic about cultivating a skeptic mindset. He introduced many of his classes to Carl Sagan, James Randi and scientific thinking in general, and many of the students left behind silly theories and old mindsets thanks to it.

There is, however, a particular girl who's very attached to her mindset. She's utterly enamoured with Brian Weiss, and keeps trying to rope our teacher (who we've remained in close contact with) into reading his books. I suspect he's already read them, as he continues to tell her to try and classify what she reads in these books into "scientific facts" and "pseudo-scientific facts" in an attempts to make her think, to no avail.

I'm really getting a bit tired of her holding on to anecdotal evidence (one of which includes a shoe being returned to her through an open window or some such thing) and Weiss' books so unquestionably, and an opportunity has opened for us to debate these things, so I ask you: how can I plant some doubt into her concerning Weiss' theories, mainly the reincarnation bit?

 

[Joecool]

Sadly there is only one indisputable way to find out.

 

[Js1981]

If we reinarnate there should be same number of population each time.
That was the belie before modern time.
Belivers involved animals too.

Now to make to philosophy looking real the new thesis says that the extra souls come from different planets.

So it is pretty much evolving buddhist philosophy to make it plausible everytime it loses sense.

 

[caniswalensis]

Well, if she wants to believe so badly, there may be nothing you can do to persuede her.

If you are going to try, do it respectfully. do not demean her or act like you think she is stupid. That will only make her cling to the belief harder, so that you are wrong.

You might need to just read the books she has, and make notes about the problems with the evidence presented in them. At least that way, she will see you as giving her views a fair shake, rather than just dismissing them out of hand. (not that you are)

Hope this helps, Canis

 

[C_Felix]

Well, if she wants to believe so badly, there may be nothing you can do to persuede her.

If you are going to try, do it respectfully. do not demean her or act like you think she is stupid. That will only make her cling to the belief harder, so that you are wrong.

You might need to just read the books she has, and make notes about the problems with the evidence presented in them. At least that way, she will see you as giving her views a fair shake, rather than just dismissing them out of hand. (not that you are)

Hope this helps, Canis

That's the key word.
She wants to believe.

In my experience facts mean little to people who want to believe.

 

[Marduk]

she's a retard kid, don't waste your time

 

[AvalonXQ]

No reason to believe all souls return immediately. Maybe there's around 100 billion souls altogether, and the returns can skip fewer and fewer generations as the population grows larger.

 

[Marduk]

No reason to believe all souls return immediately. Maybe there's around 100 billion souls altogether, and the returns can skip fewer and fewer generations as the population grows larger.

maybe there is only one soul, but it can time travel

 

[AvalonXQ]

maybe there is only one soul, but it can time travel

Sort of like the electron-positron unity idea?

 

[MrBooglemaumau]

Reincarnation?...Life after death?.you'll never never know,if you never never go....I yet have to bump into a kid that says..Hey Boogles,how'dya go with that Tiger Moth you were restoring in 1957 ???....or encounter a ghost that talks...

 

[Irish Murdoch]

If we reinarnate there should be same number of population each time.
That was the belie before modern time.
Belivers involved animals too.

Now to make to philosophy looking real the new thesis says that the extra souls come from different planets.

So it is pretty much evolving buddhist philosophy to make it plausible everytime it loses sense.

I'm not saying the Buddhists are right or anything, but we should be accurate in the beliefs we attribute to them. Buddhists don't believe in souls, nor, strictly speaking, in reincarnation. They do (some of them) believe in rebirth, which is something subtly different. From the very beginning of Buddhism, and not as some ad hoc bit of fiddling with the philosophy to tidy it up in the face of objections, they believed in different realms of existence in which people could be reborn.

Again, I believe neither in reincarnation, nor rebirth, nor other realms of existence. Just correcting the account given of Buddhist belief.

 

[Js1981]

I'm not saying the Buddhists are right or anything, but we should be accurate in the beliefs we attribute to them. Buddhists don't believe in souls, nor, strictly speaking, in reincarnation. They do (some of them) believe in rebirth, which is something subtly different. From the very beginning of Buddhism, and not as some ad hoc bit of fiddling with the philosophy to tidy it up in the face of objections, they believed in different realms of existence in which people could be reborn.

Again, I believe neither in reincarnation, nor rebirth, nor other realms of existence. Just correcting the account given of Buddhist belief.

I am sorry for not a proper use of the religion name and pointed wrong beliving.

Isn't reinarnation based on contant rebirth?
I have quite few Buddhist friends and maybe I wrong but that is what it is, isn't it?

 

[dafydd]

Sort of like the electron-positron unity idea?

Wasn't it Feynman who said that there was only one electron in the universe?

 

[dropzone]

she's a retard kid, don't waste your time

I almost objected to this, but I reread the OP.

Maeria, you will find there are some people who will so suck the oxygen in a discussion with their unassailable but idiotic beliefs that you need to let go. You will find several here and I hope you stick around long enough to put them on "Ignore." Your prof knows that, unless she's hot and willing to put out. Then accept that he's a guy and not be surprised when he transfers schools when she finds she's pregnant.

 

[Slimething]

That's the key word.
She wants to believe.

In my experience facts mean little to people who want to believe.

What he said. Move on.

 

[Irish Murdoch]

Isn't reinarnation based on contant rebirth?
I have quite few Buddhist friends and maybe I wrong but that is what it is, isn't it?

The point is that there is an important difference between the concepts of reincarnation and rebirth. For reincarnation, there must be a soul that is incarnated, or that is born into a body. But the central doctrine of Buddhism is anatta (Pali) or anatman (Sanskrit): the belief that there is no self or soul, so reincarnation can't be true. So Buddhists talk instead of rebirth, understood as a doctrine in which no soul or self is held to move from one life to another, or even to move through the series of events in a single life. According to this doctrine, mental and physical formations are constantly coming into being and passing away, and in the process conditioning the arising of further mental and physical conditions. But there are only these conditions--no self or soul that has them, and that, so to speak, endures through them.

Of course, there are no reasons to believe in either reincarnation or rebirth! For all that, they are two separate beliefs.

 

[Js1981]

Thank you for explaining the concept which I clearily missunderstood.

 

[dafydd]

I thought that reincarnation was a brand of condensed milk.

 

[Autolite]

Well, if she wants to believe so badly, there may be nothing you can do to persuede her.

And there's the rub. You're looking for a rational explanation to convince someone who has already rejected rationality.

Good luck with that...

 

[cesarz]

Well why dont you just let her believe what she wants?