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George Santos charged with defrauding campaign donors

I think the key words here are "while both his criminal trial and a House Ethics Committee investigation proceed."


Rep. Jeff Jackson (D wrote on Reddit that he's worried kicking Santos out before an ethics probe finishes would set a dangerous precedent.

Rep. Jeff Jackson, a TikTok-savvy freshman lawmaker from North Carolina, wrote on Reddit that he didn't vote to spare Santos because he thinks Santos should remain in office.

It's all about the ethics committee, Jackson wrote.

Jackson said voting to oust Santos before the probe finished would set a precedent that could be used against other lawmakers in the future.

"The better precedent is to expel members only post-conviction or post-ethics investigation," Jackson wrote in a Reddit comment. "That way you get at least some due process - either internal or external - before expulsion. That's existing precedent, at least as I understand it. This vote was basically asking us to change precedent in a way that's unnecessary (we can wait three weeks) and could be really dangerous in the hands of a future Congress."

Jackson said Santos "should definitely resign - no question."
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Stacyhs said:
I think the key words here are "while both his criminal trial and a House Ethics Committee investigation proceed."
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I think that's one valid point, but another might be that if the Democrats made the difference in a vote, then the Republicans could turn around and claim it's all a partisan ploy and they expelled a good old boy. If a Republican craps on the floor and a Democrat shovels it up, it will turn out to have been honey.
 
Stacyhs said:
I think the key words here are "while both his criminal trial and a House Ethics Committee investigation proceed."
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Democrats being consistent, sticking to the standard of waiting for a conviction in the courts before deciding he's guilty. Same with waiting for the ethics committee.

GOP and other Biden critics being consistent with a talking points memo: Biden bad.
 
What this outcome says to me is the Dems are warning Santos that they now have his balls in a vice (perhaps he likes it that way...anyway...), and they will wind it shut as soon as it is convenient for their purposes. There is no escape. So perhaps he might like to just...you know...resign and piss off back to Brazil or something? NOW would be good.
 
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Charlamagne Tha God handles the latest news, including Don Jr. testifying in his father's fraud trial and birds with racist namesakes getting renamed. Plus, Grace Kuhlenschmidt chimes in on George Santos surviving the House's expulsion vote.
Santos Survives Expulsion Vote & Don Jr. Testifies in Trump’s Fraud Trial (The Daily Show on YouTube, Nov 3, 2023 - the Santos segment begins at 3:07)
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Santos has declared he will run for re-election even if he is expelled from the House.

I suspect he may be Donald Trump's secret son as he's certainly a chip off the old block.
 
Stacyhs said:
Santos has declared he will run for re-election even if he is expelled from the House.

I suspect he may be Donald Trump's secret son as he's certainly a chip off the old block.
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He changed his mind. He is now not running.

NBC New York

Tom Suozzi is going to run again. It is likely he will win the seat as a Democrat and he could easily have beaten Santos.
 
JoeMorgue said:
So basically yeah he's going to get off scott free.
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I'm not sure I would say he will get off scott free since he is still facing criminal charges. A campaign aid just plead guilty to wire fraud. However, I think it is likely he will get off scott free with at most a slap on the wrist by the House Ethics panel.
 
seayakin said:
He changed his mind. He is now not running.
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Due to his ethical problems he may not be suitable House of Representatives material.

No worry, he's shortlisted for the next Supreme Court seat.

If anything, his record might be too clean for that shiphole.:rolleyes:
 
seayakin said:
I'm not sure I would say he will get off scott free since he is still facing criminal charges. A campaign aid just plead guilty to wire fraud. However, I think it is likely he will get off scott free with at most a slap on the wrist by the House Ethics panel.
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He's not getting off scott free. He will be convicted of multiple counts of wire fraud and conspiracy. He will go to prison in New York.
 
Conservatives will abandoned Santos soon. But it'll be because Santos is gay, not for any crimes. They'll use the crimes as an excuse though.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Yeah sure and Trump will be right behind him.
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I am 98% sure that Santos will be convicted and sent to prison. I'm about 30% sure Trump will be. Although I am 100% sure of Trump's guilt on many counts. (As opposed to juries finding Trump guilty)
 
acbytesla said:
I am 98% sure that Santos will be convicted and sent to prison. I'm about 30% sure Trump will be. Although I am 100% sure of Trump's guilt on many counts. (As opposed to juries finding Trump guilty)
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If Santos decides to plead, he might get away with house arrest and lots of comm service. But he's going to trial and will likely get at least 5 years.
 
Hercules56 said:
If Santos decides to plead, he might get away with house arrest and lots of comm service. But he's going to trial and will likely get at least 5 years.
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You think they would let him plead without a prison sentence included? My guess is they won't be willing to settle for any sentence less than six months.
 
acbytesla said:
You think they would let him plead without a prison sentence included? My guess is they won't be willing to settle for any sentence less than six months.
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Resignation and comm service is my guess, but who knows.
 
It'd be nice if the Orange Sphincter turns out to be the catalyst to break America of its weird obsession with treating POTUS like a king. One would think the founding, rebellious act of throwing off the shackles of a monarchy would have inculcated a deep antipathy to anything like royalty. But confounding all (naive) expectations, the Yanks foolishly bestowed upon the Office of the President something of a reverential deference that has lead to Drumpf.

I hold out faint hope for any such Renaissance any time soon. The nation of obstinate obstreporousness in strenuous defiance of good sense likely has farther yet to drag itself through the gutter before the first dim spark of sensibility is to flicker.
 
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Are we close to the point where Santos pulls the mask off to reveals he's really Sacha Baron Cohen playing he latest long con prank?
 
azazal said:
Are we close to the point where Santos pulls the mask off to reveals he's really Sacha Baron Cohen playing he latest long con prank?
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Santos is Cohen's next movie. The trailer is out next week.
 
Recent news has Santos getting in more trouble with his party after the evidence piles up. To be so tainted even the Republican Party is threatening to dump him is quite an achievement. Someone should tell Mr. Trump that he's no longer number one in that department, and he'd better up his game.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Democrats being consistent, sticking to the standard of waiting for a conviction in the courts before deciding he's guilty. Same with waiting for the ethics committee.
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Keep in mind that Santos has already been found guilty in a court of law (and has admitted wrongdoing), based on fraud he committed in Brazil.

Now in theory you can have a case where a conviction in a foreign country might not mean much (since you have countries with some bizarre laws... singapore's laws against chewing gum, anti-gay laws in places like Saudi Arabia, etc.) But 'fraud' is a universal crime that is (probably) universally found upon, and Brazil is a RELATIVELY stable/respectable country with a functioning legal system.
 
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Stacyhs said:
I think the key words here are "while both his criminal trial and a House Ethics Committee investigation proceed."

Rep. Jeff Jackson (D wrote on Reddit that he's worried kicking Santos out before an ethics probe finishes would set a dangerous precedent.
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Not necessarily a bad argument. But the flaw is that the republicans don't really respect 'precedent'.

If, at some future time, some Democrat is accused of some wrongdoing, republicans will probably act immediately and forcefully (long before any sort of ethics committee has finished its work) to "punish" the Democrat (or more accurately, score cheap political points), with or without such caution being applied to Santos.
 
Hercules56 said:
Resignation and comm service is my guess, but who knows.
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Stacyhs said:
Resignation and prison time.
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If convicted, he faces a mandatory minimum penalty of two years in prison for the aggravated identity theft counts and a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison for the other counts. A federal district court judge will determine any sentence after considering the U.S. Sentencing Guidelines and other statutory factors.
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It looks like the Republicans are now going to expell him. The Republican chairman of the Ethics Committee just issued a motion to expel him.

I'm afraid Santos's usefulness has come to an end. For the past year a dependable vote in Congress overrode any reason to get rid of him. The Republican party could have cared less if that vote came from was Charles Manson. But his vote grows less important as the term goes on. Now, it's about the next election. Not just his, but theirs. It's not just that Santos is corrupt, but it is his lifestyle. In fact for them, this is far worse.

I'll be shocked if Santos is a member of Congress at the end of January.
 
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Segnosaur said:
Keep in mind that Santos has already been found guilty in a court of law (and has admitted wrongdoing), based on fraud he committed in Brazil.

Now in theory you can have a case where a conviction in a foreign country might not mean much (since you have countries with some bizarre laws... singapore's laws against chewing gum, anti-gay laws in places like Saudi Arabia, etc.) But 'fraud' is a universal crime that is (probably) universally found upon, and Brazil is a RELATIVELY stable/respectable country with a functioning legal system.
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New hypothesis: Why try to expel Georgie Porgie when you can just wait until the GOP legislators do it?
 
acbytesla said:
...

I'll be shocked if Santos is a member of Congress at the end of January.
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The GOP needs him out so they can start working on his replacement in the 2024 election.

As for mandatory minimum jail time, can't that then be turned into a suspended portion of the sentence? Though I can't see why a judge would want to suspend his jail time.

You can safely assume Santos will not resign and will fight being expelled because he's getting that big salary he no doubt doesn't want to give up.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
The GOP needs him out so they can start working on his replacement in the 2024 election. As for mandatory minimum jail time, can't that then be turned into a suspended portion of the sentence? Though I can't see why a judge would want to suspend his jail time.

You can safely assume Santos will not resign and will fight being expelled because he's getting that big salary he no doubt doesn't want to give up.
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It's more than that. Santos has said he won't be running for reelection. So the slate is clear.

You need to keep in mind that the GOP has little to offer other than hate and fear. The GOP doesn't want an openly gay man in their ranks. Makes it harder to run on homophobia.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Oh and he's so reliable. :rolleyes:
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It doesn't matter. The New York State Republican party has turned against him. The Ethics report is referring multiple additional charges to the DOJ.

He's between a rock and a hard place. Santos whined in a tweet that the report was biased. But it wasn't. The committee which has a majority of Republicans on it voted unanimously on submitting the report and the referrals to the DOJ.

I'm more convinced than ever that Santos will go to prison. I can see a sentence as long as a decade. Santos isn't Trump. He doesn't have the resources to put up much of a legal battle. They may be similar in that they are both frauds. But Trump has always had money. Santos is sort of like Matt Damon's character in The Talented Mr Ripley and Steve Martin's in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels.

He has to try and get a plea bargain. But I can't imagine that the DOJ will be willing to negotiate much.

I kind of feel a bit sorry for him. You can see everything turning against him. He's like Tessio at the end of The Godfather.
 
Lurch said:
It'd be nice if the Orange Sphincter turns out to be the catalyst to break America of its weird obsession with treating POTUS like a king. One would think the founding, rebellious act of throwing off the shackles of a monarchy would have inculcated a deep antipathy to anything like royalty. But confounding all (naive) expectations, the Yanks foolishly bestowed upon the Office of the President something of a reverential deference that has lead to Drumpf.

I hold out faint hope for any such Renaissance any time soon. The nation of obstinate obstreporousness in strenuous defiance of good sense likely has farther yet to drag itself through the gutter before the first dim spark of sensibility is to flicker.
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acbytesla said:
It doesn't matter. The New York State Republican party has turned against him. The Ethics report is referring multiple additional charges to the DOJ.

He's between a rock and a hard place. Santos whined in a tweet that the report was biased. But it wasn't. The committee which has a majority of Republicans on it voted unanimously on submitting the report and the referrals to the DOJ.

I'm more convinced than ever that Santos will go to prison. I can see a sentence as long as a decade. Santos isn't Trump. He doesn't have the resources to put up much of a legal battle. They may be similar in that they are both frauds. But Trump has always had money. Santos is sort of like Matt Damon's character in The Talented Mr Ripley and Steve Martin's in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels.

He has to try and get a plea bargain. But I can't imagine that the DOJ will be willing to negotiate much.

I kind of feel a bit sorry for him. You can see everything turning against him. He's like Tessio at the end of The Godfather.
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I think it's pretty obvious that Santos, like Trump, has some very serious mental health issues. He's definitely a pathological liar and narcissist who believes he can get away with anything because he's so much smarter and deserves whatever he wants.
 
Stacyhs said:
I think it's pretty obvious that Santos, like Trump, has some very serious mental health issues. He's definitely a pathological liar and narcissist who believes he can get away with anything because he's so much smarter and deserves whatever he wants.
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Absolutely. But like Trump, he has gotten away with his schemes for a long time. I'm wondering if he didn't actually expect to be elected. That being a Congress person wasn't part of the plan. Maybe the worst thing happening was getting elected?

It's very possible that if he lost the election, he wouldn't be facing prison.
 
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acbytesla said:
Absolutely. But like Trump, he has gotten away with his schemes for a long time. I'm wondering if he didn't actually expect to be elected. That being a Congress person wasn't part of the plan. Maybevnthe worst thing happening was getting elected?

It's very possible that if he lost the election, he wouldn't be facing prison.
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Very likely. Like Trump, it was attention and grifting. Winning was unexpected in a left leaning district.
 
acbytesla said:
It doesn't matter. The New York State Republican party has turned against him. The Ethics report is referring multiple additional charges to the DOJ.

He's between a rock and a hard place. Santos whined in a tweet that the report was biased. But it wasn't. The committee which has a majority of Republicans on it voted unanimously on submitting the report and the referrals to the DOJ.

I'm more convinced than ever that Santos will go to prison. I can see a sentence as long as a decade. Santos isn't Trump. He doesn't have the resources to put up much of a legal battle. They may be similar in that they are both frauds. But Trump has always had money. Santos is sort of like Matt Damon's character in The Talented Mr Ripley and Steve Martin's in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels.

He has to try and get a plea bargain. But I can't imagine that the DOJ will be willing to negotiate much.

I kind of feel a bit sorry for him. You can see everything turning against him. He's like Tessio at the end of The Godfather.
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It's his own fault for running for office.
 
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