General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[TSR]

Well, when you kill them one at a time, it may be.

What makes you think they killed only one at a time? You could kill several hundred at once, take the rest of that hour off, and assuming an eight hour shift still come out close to 2.5M. Now, there were times when they didn't have anyone to kill, but others (say during the Hungarian exportation) when they ran close to 24x7

The bottle neck was not the gassing, it was body disposal, where again they didn't just burn one body at a time. Even so, they could not keep up and resorted to open-air pyres.

 

[lionking]

MaGZ????

Not far away. We'll have a full house soon.

 

[SpringHallConvert]

What did they do with the bodies? Pile them up?

I thought they made lamp shades and bars of soap out of them?

 

[TSR]

What did they do with the bodies? Pile them up?

Well, if you weren't so to-the-bone ignert of the history you're so rabid to deny, you'd know that they were burned -- some in the Krema (which had 21x the capacity needed for the size of the camp, if registered inmates were all they were burning) until they couldn't keep up, and then used open-air pyres.

Most of the ashes went into the river, but to this day one can see bone shards around what is known as the ash pond -- in reality just a pit for the ashes and ground up bones.

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

Off topic.

It is still the same thread. The topic is still Holocaust denial. The thread isn't in the history section. You've repeatedly hinted at some sort of timeline on which a hoax unfolded / was created. In spite of repeated requests you have not elaborated. Not in the first part of this thread and not in this siphoned off continuation. For some reason the topic is picking up replies again but that's not because Holocaust deniers have finally decided to present their case.

Why not take the opportunity to explain why it is important that the publications you will not read are from before 1950? Why not take the opportunity provided you here? As Thunder put it about a year ago; "Clayton- please provide us with the evidence and the timeline of the Holocaust conspiracy plan, plot, etc etc. Who was involved. Who fixed the census data. Who fudged the records. (?)" [Relatively random result from a search for the keyword "Timeline" in the first part of this thread.]

You tried "Read the Thread" as a reply but that isn't an acceptable answer. As Craig4 put it back then; "We have, hence the question." It is also quite odd that you would resist the request. What were you hoping to achieve with not explaining yourself?

Why waste another year of everyone's time by dodging? Why dodge the opportunity to lay out your own case? Why dodge the opportunity to present recorded events in the context you see for them? It doesn't make sense. Unlike the material provided in longs lists of books, your version of events can't be found anywhere else. Why not take the time to present your version of history in a logical chronological narrative? Rewrite those books. Force the moderators to move the thread to the history section. Can you?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Well, if you weren't so to-the-bone ignert of the history you're so rabid to deny, you'd know that they were burned -- some in the Krema (which had 21x the capacity needed for the size of the camp, if registered inmates were all they were burning) until they couldn't keep up, and then used open-air pyres.

Most of the ashes went into the river, but to this day one can see bone shards around what is known as the ash pond -- in reality just a pit for the ashes and ground up bones.

And nobody in the camp caught on? Must have taken a lot of fuel to burn millions of bodies. No wonder the Germans lost the war.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

From the information i can find online, it says it was operational from early 1942 to late 1944

Your opening post states "Regarding Auschwitz". If you look at the internet you will see that the conventional historic figure for total deaths at Auschwitz is between 800K and 1,000K.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_concentration_camp#Death_toll

Raul Hilberg's 1961 work The Destruction of the European Jews estimated the number killed at 1,000,000, and Gerald Reitlinger's 1968 book The Final Solution described the Soviet figures as "ridiculous", and estimated the number killed at "800,000 to 900,000

Have you confused the total death toll, including camps such as Treblinka, in your 2.5million figure? Can you ask the question again with links to your source so we can see what you are reading?

So lets say, 2.5 years. Now while 3000000 died, apparently 2.5 million were killed in gas chambers.

At Auschwitz? Where are you getting this number concerning Auschwitz?

Not saying it didnt happen, just that its a very high rate to keep up for so long.

Try Treblinka II as we have good evidence from the Hofle Telegram that over 713,555 were executed there between 22 July 22, 1942 and 30 December 1942.

May I also suggest that the moderators of this forum have directed all holocaust discussion to the general holocaust thread and you should repost your revised question in that thread. This way you will get a clear answer from the historians on that thread rather than useless anti-Jewish conspiracy remarks from SpringHallCovert and Clayton Moore, two uneducated deniers..

 

[TSR]

And nobody in the camp caught on?

Who told you that?

Must have taken a lot of fuel to burn millions of bodies.

The bodies themselves provide a lot of it -- look up exothermic and endothermic and get back to us...

No wonder the Germans lost the war.

Quite. But not in the snide way you mean...

 

[gabeygoat]

What makes you think they killed only one at a time? .

This was my immediate thought. It makes the original post a bit embarrassing.

 

[mushy]

Rudolf Hess who was a commander at the camp gave that figure at the nurenberg trail.

 

[Mashuna]

Cool, a new sub-category of logical fallacy, the appeal to Nazauthority.

 

[mushy]

This was my immediate thought. It makes the original post a bit embarrassing.

I never said one at a time did i? I just game how much per second it worked out based on the figures i had read.

Also, again i didnt think it was the killing that was the most efficient, it was the disposal of the bodies, even 200 at a time dying, think of the effort to carry them out of the chamber etc etc..

 

[mushy]

Cool, a new sub-category of logical fallacy, the appeal to Nazauthority.

I accept the figure was wrong, he asked me where i came up with the figure, i told him.

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited for civility.

 

[threadworm]

I never said one at a time did i? I just game how much per second it worked out based on the figures i had read.

Also, again i didnt think it was the killing that was the most efficient, it was the disposal of the bodies, even 200 at a time dying, think of the effort to carry them out of the chamber etc etc..

They had a readily available labour force to take care of that.

 

[threadworm]

Rudolf Hess who was a commander at the camp gave that figure at the nurenberg trail.

That's 'Rudolf Höss', not Rudolf Hess, and 'Nuremberg', not 'nurenberg'.

If that's the level of research you're prepared to put in, that's why people have an attitude problem about it.

Höss was executed for his crimes, which he freely admitted and showed little remorse for, Good riddance.

 

[mushy]

That's 'Rudolf Höss', not Rudolf Hess, and 'Nuremberg', not 'nurenberg'.

If that's the level of research you're prepared to put in, that's why people have an attitude problem about it.

Höss was executed for his crimes, which he freely admitted and showed little remorse for, Good riddance.

I don't know or really care about it, it was just some figures i came across and decided to ask.

Edited by jhunter1163: 

Edited for Rule 12.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

That's 'Rudolf Höss', not Rudolf Hess, and 'Nuremberg', not 'nurenberg'.

Not to defend our resident nazi-sympathizers, but I make those mistakes all the time (the first one mostly cuz I don't know the ASCII codes to generate the unusual german vowels).

 

[Clayton Moore]

http://en.auschwitz.org/z/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=8

http://video.auschwitz.org/jacobs/grafika/Birkenau_mapa.jpg

Edited by Rat: 

Edited to remove hotlinked image. Please do not hotlink images. See rule 5 of your membership agreement.

Not very big is it?

Click the numbers.

Legend:

1. The "Gate of death" (part I) 10. Crematorium II (inside) 19. The sauna (part III)
2. The "Gate of death" (part II) 11. Crematorium II (general view) 20. Bunker I — "the little red house"
3. The unloading ramp 12. The last moments 21. Bunker II — "the litthe white house”
4. Wooden living hut 13. Little wood (crematoria) 22. Burning pits
5. Brick living hut 14. Pond with ashes 23. So-called Mexico
6. Latrine at Men's Camp 15.Crematorium V 24. Cementery of Russian POWs
7. Latrine at Women's Camp 16. "Kanada" and the sauna 25. Altejudenrampe — the old unloading ramp
8. The penal company 17. The sauna (part I)
9. Crematorium II (model) 18. The sauna (part II)

 

[TSR]

Not to defend our resident nazi-sympathizers, but I make those mistakes all the time (the first one mostly cuz I don't know the ASCII codes to generate the unusual german vowels).

... in which case, the convention is to spell it Hoess.

 

[threadworm]

Not to defend our resident nazi-sympathizers, but I make those mistakes all the time (the first one mostly cuz I don't know the ASCII codes to generate the unusual german vowels).

I copied and pasted it, because I knew it was wrong. The common English version is 'Hoess'. The distinction is important because, of course, Rudolf Hess was someone else entirely!

In the interests of fairness and clarity, here is the statement from the affidavit as read out at Nuremberg:

"I have been constantly associated with the administration of concentration camps since 1934, serving at Dachau until 1938; then as Adjutant in Sachsenhausen from 1938 to 1 May 1940, when I was appointed Commandant of Auschwitz.. I commanded Auschwitz until 1 December 1943, and estimate that at least 2,500,000 victims were executed and exterminated there by gassing and burning, and at least another half million succumbed to starvation and disease making a total dead of about 3,000,000. This?figure represents about 70 or 80 percent of all persons sent to Auschwitz as prisoners, the remainder having been selected and used for slave labor in the concentration camp industries; included among the executed and burned were approximately 20,000 Russian prisoners of war (previously screened out of prisoner-of-war cages by the Gestapo) who were delivered at Auschwitz in Wehrmacht transports operated by regular Wehrmacht officers and men. The remainder of the total number of victims included about 100,000 German Jews, and great numbers of citizens, mostly Jewish, from Holland, France, Belgium, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Greece, or other countries. We executed about 400,000 Hungarian Jews alone at Auschwitz in the summer of 1944."

From: http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/hoesstest.html