What is paranormal in Homeopathy
- Thread starter Dr. MAS
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quote:
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Originally posted from above : Zep said
Dr MAS, you might care to prove that homeopathy works AT ALL under fair scientific testing, before you start trying to dodge-and-weave about paranormality.
Dr. MAS: And lastly, you came to that point where I was expecting all these from you.
Don’t be annoyed. I am still interested in learning paranormal in homeopathy (according to your understanding).
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Originally posted from above : Zep said
Dr MAS, you might care to prove that homeopathy works AT ALL under fair scientific testing, before you start trying to dodge-and-weave about paranormality.
Dr. MAS: And lastly, you came to that point where I was expecting all these from you.
Don’t be annoyed. I am still interested in learning paranormal in homeopathy (according to your understanding). --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Rolfe
Adult human female
Dr. Mas, please can you figure out how to use the quote function on this forum. This should surely be very easy for someone who is so highly educated. If you don't use the quote function, it becomes very difficult to read your posts, and to quote your own words in turn.Dr. MAS said:
Also, please set your sig as a sig, rather than typing it in every post. This not only saves you a lot of trouble, it prevents the sig from appearing in every quote. I'm sure someone with your education can manage to set your sig line very easily.
And if you read the relevant pages, surely very easy for someone with such a good education, you will discover that you cannot set an avatar until you have made 50 posts. Again, following the instructions should be easy for someone so highly educated. After all, I could do it, and I have only one PhD.
Perhaps I didn't make myself sufficiently clear. Homoepathic remedies are no different in any way from the stock sugar pills. If you take a bottle of stock blank pills and treat them with only the stock diluent you use to make your dilutions, the result is identical in every way to a bottle which has been treated with a 30C potency.
I'm not interested in your making anything available in the remedies. I merely point out that there is nothing there but the carrier sugar pills or whatever, and yet you claim they can cure people. This is paranormal.
I Think Zep already explained, but I'll try again. We want you to show that you can tell a 30C "potentised" remedy from the stock sugar pills or solvent. Alternatively, that you can tell a 30C homoeopathic preparation of one substance from a 30C homoeopathic preparation of another. (Actually, the potency isn't important, so long as it is above 12C or 34X.)
You can do this by any chemical or physical method you like, or by "proving" the remedy, or by using it to treat patients, or anything else you can come up with. You just have to do it often enough to prove that you're not just a lucky guesser. And the reason that we discuss this is that the JREF will give a million dollars to anyone who can do this under sufficiently strict conditions.
Rolfe.
Yes, kumar
I deliberately changed the real “proverb†into my language. I know it is wrong. Just trying to convince them a word which is wrong in your sense is perfectly right in my sense. The problem is of understanding and not of real facts. I mean to say, whether we understand something or not it does not matter, the problem is a fact is existing and we are trying to understand that fact according to our own interpretation. This is wrong.
They are trying to teach me about “paranormal†according to the comprehension they have in their mind and do not interested in adopting that method or technique of teaching, which is more approachable to me. I am still waiting, when they will be able to design another protocol which is more comfortable to me. So that I can easily pick what exactly the paranormal is in homeopathy.
I have an experience of 30 years of teaching. I set different example in this thread, which I will utilise in my future discussion. See, a proverb which was wrong is completely understood by all and "non" objected because they have followed what I were trying to say. Why it was happend? Because, they have followed what I was trying to say, although I adopted a wrong method. In the same sense, a geuine method also sometime goes wrong, in that situation we need to design another method.
I deliberately changed the real “proverb†into my language. I know it is wrong. Just trying to convince them a word which is wrong in your sense is perfectly right in my sense.
The problem is of understanding and not of real facts. I mean to say, whether we understand something or not it does not matter, the problem is a fact is existing and we are trying to understand that fact according to our own interpretation. This is wrong. They are trying to teach me about “paranormal†according to the comprehension they have in their mind and do not interested in adopting that method or technique of teaching, which is more approachable to me. I am still waiting, when they will be able to design another protocol which is more comfortable to me. So that I can easily pick what exactly the paranormal is in homeopathy.
I have an experience of 30 years of teaching. I set different example in this thread, which I will utilise in my future discussion. See, a proverb which was wrong is completely understood by all and "non" objected because they have followed what I were trying to say. Why it was happend? Because, they have followed what I was trying to say, although I adopted a wrong method. In the same sense, a geuine method also sometime goes wrong, in that situation we need to design another method.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Why are you so concerned about definitions of "paranormal"? It is only important inasmuch as it has been agreed that homoeopathy is eligible for the million dollar challenge. It has also been agreed that a piece of plastic that it is claimed will improve the sound of a CD if it is placed on the top of the CD player is eligible. It doesn't matter whose definition of paranormal these things meet or not, it only matters that if you can prove they are real, you will get the million dollars.
Now, can you tell a potentised remedy from the unpotentised solvent or stock pills? That is the question.
The other question is, how do you propose to prove that
Now, can you tell a potentised remedy from the unpotentised solvent or stock pills? That is the question.
The other question is, how do you propose to prove that
You can of course "treat" anyone with homoeopathic medicines. The doubt is whether that will help them in any way. But in your next sentence you claim to be able to "cure" serious diseases.
- How do you propose to prove that to us?
- If that is true, why are homoeopaths not demonstrating this all over the world on a large scale?[/list=1]You are the one claiming that there is an effect. It is irrelevent whether this effect is labelled "paranormal" or not, except for the purpose of winning the money. You are making the claim, and it is up to you to find a way to show us that your claim is true.
Rolfe.
Actually, I didn't say anything of the sort. Please don't make up things and think you are being clever. Not only rude, it weakens your arguments.Dr. MAS said:This question you cannot ask to me. This is mine question to ask you which type of energy you want to measure in homeopathic dilutions; I never claimed homeopathic dilutions contain energy. It was you who said, it contain energy...
So. Do you wish to stick with your highlighted claim that homeopathic dilutions contain no energies? None at all?
quote:
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Originally posted from above : Rolfe said
Dr. Mas, please can you figure out how to use the quote function on this forum. This should surely be very easy for someone who is so highly educated. If you don't use the quote function, it becomes very difficult to read your posts, and to quote your own words in turn.
Dr. MAS: This is my own design. I feel comfortable in quoting that way. This is the easiest simple way to quote someone remarks. This is easy, simple and understandable to me and everyone.
See, you quoted my entire post and I am feeling difficulty in understanding what I said and what you are contributing in the “post reply�
Anyway, I can adopt that technique which is most suitable to you. Tell me which quoting style you refer me to adopt?
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Originally posted from above : Rolfe said
Dr. Mas, please can you figure out how to use the quote function on this forum. This should surely be very easy for someone who is so highly educated. If you don't use the quote function, it becomes very difficult to read your posts, and to quote your own words in turn.
Dr. MAS: This is my own design. I feel comfortable in quoting that way. This is the easiest simple way to quote someone remarks. This is easy, simple and understandable to me and everyone.
See, you quoted my entire post and I am feeling difficulty in understanding what I said and what you are contributing in the “post reply�
Anyway, I can adopt that technique which is most suitable to you. Tell me which quoting style you refer me to adopt?
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quote:
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Originally posted from above : Zep said
So. Do you wish to stick with your highlighted claim that homeopathic dilutions contain no energies? None at all?
Dr. MAS: No, I never said at this forum. Tell me where I said this.
Whether I agree or not, this is another issue / question which I wish to address in future in another thread but not in this thread. Because here the main question still exists “ What is paranormal in homeopathy in your sense�
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Originally posted from above : Zep said
So. Do you wish to stick with your highlighted claim that homeopathic dilutions contain no energies? None at all?
Dr. MAS: No, I never said at this forum. Tell me where I said this.
Whether I agree or not, this is another issue / question which I wish to address in future in another thread but not in this thread. Because here the main question still exists “ What is paranormal in homeopathy in your sense�
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tmackean
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Hello Dr. MAS,
I'd like to address your suggestion that the only methodology required to prove Homeopathic effects would be yours, and not one which is independently designed.
I find it odd that someone with scientific training could dismiss DBT as one means of verifying the results of an experiment.
The fact is, it's well known that Homeopathy DOES work in many therapeutic environments, typically where there is a sympathetic practitioner and an ingenuous patient. The problem is ascertaining whether the positive effects observed are due to a chemical process initiated by the Homeopathic solution, or whether successful treatments owe more to the well know experimenter and placebo effect.
You can cure as many people as you like of minor ailments using a therapeutic approach to Homeopathy, but it is impossible in such a situation to conclusively claim that the effects are the result of the Homeopathic solutions - just that people get better due to unknown reasons.
It's completely acceptable and rational, I think, to attempt to remove external affecting factors from any experiment to ensure that results are valid.
Interested in your thoughts...!
I'd like to address your suggestion that the only methodology required to prove Homeopathic effects would be yours, and not one which is independently designed.
I find it odd that someone with scientific training could dismiss DBT as one means of verifying the results of an experiment.
The fact is, it's well known that Homeopathy DOES work in many therapeutic environments, typically where there is a sympathetic practitioner and an ingenuous patient. The problem is ascertaining whether the positive effects observed are due to a chemical process initiated by the Homeopathic solution, or whether successful treatments owe more to the well know experimenter and placebo effect.
You can cure as many people as you like of minor ailments using a therapeutic approach to Homeopathy, but it is impossible in such a situation to conclusively claim that the effects are the result of the Homeopathic solutions - just that people get better due to unknown reasons.
It's completely acceptable and rational, I think, to attempt to remove external affecting factors from any experiment to ensure that results are valid.
Interested in your thoughts...!
Rolfe
Adult human female
Use the quote button at the bottom of the post you want to quote.Dr. MAS said:
And set up your sig properly, rather than typing it in every post. I'm not saying this to be dictatorial, it's just that you'lll get on better in this forum if you use the software correctly.
Now, could we leave the unimportant things and get back to whether you can tell a potentised remedy from the stock carrier material, and how you propose to prove your claim that homoeopathy can cure serious diseases.
Rolfe.
What you are REALLY saying here is that you believe you can weasel out of any real testing of your homeopathic skills by using nonsense talk and semantics to avoid the issue. You do know that's the typical homeopath's response to reality, don't you. You do make us chuckle.Dr. MAS said:Yes, kumar
I deliberately changed the real “proverb†into my language. I know it is wrong. Just trying to convince them a word which is wrong in your sense is perfectly right in my sense.
They are trying to teach me about “paranormal†according to the comprehension they have in their mind and do not interested in adopting that method or technique of teaching, which is more approachable to me. I am still waiting, when they will be able to design another protocol which is more comfortable to me. So that I can easily pick what exactly the paranormal is in homeopathy.
I have an experience of 30 years of teaching. I set different example in this thread, which I will utilise in my future discussion. See, a proverb which was wrong is completely understood by all and "non" objected because they have followed what I were trying to say. Why it was happend? Because, they have followed what I was trying to say, although I adopted a wrong method. In the same sense, a geuine method also sometime goes wrong, in that situation we need to design another method.
Any other medicine in the world would be SCREAMING to be proven to work scientifically, but not homeopathy... Quite the opposite - like you just demonstrated above, they waffle on about this and that, make up silly notions, invent pathetic excuses, feign deafness...ANYTHING to AVOID being tested properly. One would think that they really thought in their heart of hearts it was all bunkum!
But you never know - you could be the first one to show us something new. Care to give it a try? Yes or no.
Rolfe
Adult human female
We have already answered this several times.Dr. MAS said:
- The claim that one substance (the potentised remedy) can have an effect on the body which another identical substance does not.
- The fact that homoeopathic theory conforms in every way to the principles of Sympathetic Magic.[/list=1]Rolfe.
quote:
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Originally posted from above : Rolfe said
And if you read the relevant pages, surely very easy for someone with such a good education, you will discover that you cannot set an avatar until you have made 50 posts. Again, following the instructions should be easy for someone so highly educated. After all, I could do it, and I have only one PhD.
Dr. MAS: Your posts main stress is on my qualification, your entire posts are on my personality and character. But me is interested in seeking answer of my first question.
Have you read my first post? In the Ph.D it was not written “an avatar can only be set after sending 50 posts.†This is not common sense approach. Your forum administrator designed a wrong protocol for uploading avatar. This is purely a wrong set of rule in discussion. Amend this rule. If you do then each member will discuss in this forum on common sense approach.
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I have removed my sig. Because I have followed what you were trying to teach me.
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Originally posted from above : Rolfe said
And if you read the relevant pages, surely very easy for someone with such a good education, you will discover that you cannot set an avatar until you have made 50 posts. Again, following the instructions should be easy for someone so highly educated. After all, I could do it, and I have only one PhD.
Dr. MAS: Your posts main stress is on my qualification, your entire posts are on my personality and character. But me is interested in seeking answer of my first question.
Have you read my first post? In the Ph.D it was not written “an avatar can only be set after sending 50 posts.†This is not common sense approach. Your forum administrator designed a wrong protocol for uploading avatar. This is purely a wrong set of rule in discussion. Amend this rule. If you do then each member will discuss in this forum on common sense approach.
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I have removed my sig. Because I have followed what you were trying to teach me.
Who cares. Homeopathy is a total no-show in any sense, normal or paranormal however anyone defines it. Show us it works AT ALL under controlled conditions and then we will worry if it is "paranormal" in any sense or not.Dr. MAS said:
You know cricket, I'm sure. Your question is like asking how many fours and sixes a batsman scored when he was out for a duck. The question doesn't matter - his score was ZERO.
quote:
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Originally posted from above : Zep said
Show us it works AT ALL under controlled conditions and then we will worry if it is "paranormal" in any sense or not.
Dr. MAS: At last, I have been succeeded in finding one “demand†from you? i.e. “show us it worksâ€
Ok, which format do you instruct us to adopt, so that we can show you it works.
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Originally posted from above : Zep said
Show us it works AT ALL under controlled conditions and then we will worry if it is "paranormal" in any sense or not.
Dr. MAS: At last, I have been succeeded in finding one “demand†from you? i.e. “show us it worksâ€
Ok, which format do you instruct us to adopt, so that we can show you it works.
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Do you have trouble reading? I count at least four other posters before me who asked you exactly the same thing, even in exactly those words.Dr. MAS said:
AND we have outlined the aim and basis of a protocol, the methodology, and even a list of basic operational details to follow to perform a simple and effective test of homeopathy's efficacy. Perhaps you might care to reread this thread and find them all?
You are labelled "Student" because you have less than 50 posts. That is all. I'm labelled "Penultimate Amazing" because I have more than 10,000 posts - also hardly appropriate.
TheBoyPaj
Graduate Poster
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Dr. MAS said:
Nice patronising start. I may be older than you, you know.
I have seen what you have written. It looks like you don't want to perform a double blind test of your treatments. You have not effectively argued why this very necessary step is not required for your treatments. You have, on the other hand, started to look very shifty.
Because the definition of homeopathy which I am aware of includes dilution beyond the point that a single molecule of the active ingredient is present. As far as I know, there is no consensus even among homeopaths as to the mechanism for its supposed effects. (Correct me if any of this does not match your understanding of the term)
So, there is no known way that homeopathy CAN have an effect. That makes it a paranormal claim. Unless it doesn't work at all. In that case it's not paranormal. It's just a scam.
I am not coming here to disgrace anyone or impress you. Please do not throw bricks on me.
Then please do not take me for a fool.