What did Democrats do wrong?

[d4m10n]

You think heavy pandering antivaxxers won't affect policy?

You think Democrats did something wrong on this issue?

 

[Ziggurat]

I am very much paying attention to what he does. Are you? Trump put an anti-vaxxer in charge of public health. And he's not done putting all of our lives in the hands of quacks. What plane of existence are you on to not see this as a really big problem?

The big problem I see is the idea that our lives are in the hands of government officials. If this is an incorrect assessment, it needs to be corrected. If it is correct, then we need to fundamentally change the situation so that our lives are NOT in the hands of government officials, be they "quacks" or not.

 

[Donal]

You think Democrats did something wrong on this issue?

You shouyld go back and read what I was repsonding to

 

[Donal]

The big problem I see is the idea that our lives are in the hands of government officials. If this is an incorrect assessment, it needs to be corrected. If it is correct, then we need to fundamentally change the situation so that our lives are NOT in the hands of government officials, be they "quacks" or not.

...and into the hands of our betters among the nobles

 

[johnny karate]

What plane of existence are you on to see it as relevant to what Democrats could have done better from 2020-2024?

We can hopefully all agree that Democrats are the party of science on the issue of vaccine acceptance/denialism.

You think Democrats did something wrong on this issue?

As I've said before, we can't have an honest discussion about what the failure of Democrat messaging was until we have an honest assessment of why Republican messaging was successful. That means being honest about what that message was.

Trump pushed conspiracy theories and grievance, and the response to that so far is that it somehow doesn't count. Apparently, there was a secret message underneath "They're eating the pets" and "Democrats steal elections" that Trump voters were really responding to because the reality that they wanted the conspiracy theories and grievance they voted for is one that many people in this thread seem unable to admit.

 

[johnny karate]

The big problem I see is the idea that our lives are in the hands of government officials. If this is an incorrect assessment, it needs to be corrected. If it is correct, then we need to fundamentally change the situation so that our lives are NOT in the hands of government officials, be they "quacks" or not.

I see. So what's the plan then? We all just vaccinate ourselves as we see fit and hope for the best?

 

[Ziggurat]

...and into the hands of our betters among the nobles

Our lives should be in our own hands. Being in the hands of government bureaucrats isn't any better than in the hands of oligarchs.

I see. So what's the plan then? We all just vaccinate ourselves as we see fit and hope for the best?

That's basically how the system already works.

 

[Thermal]

Our lives should be in our own hands. Being in the hands of government bureaucrats isn't any better than in the hands of oligarchs.

That's basically how the system already works.

Does it follow then that herd immunity is for losers, and the weak getting killed off just a validation of natural selection?

 

[d4m10n]

As I've said before, we can't have an honest discussion about what the failure of Democrat messaging was until we have an honest assessment of why Republican messaging was successful.

Even if I accepted this premise, couldn't we talk about that in the "What did Republicans do right" thread? Democrats didn't get anything significantly wrong on vaccines (either messaging or governing) so that isn't something we need to address here.

 

[Ziggurat]

Does it follow then that herd immunity is for losers, and the weak getting killed off just a validation of natural selection?

You seem to be confused about how vaccines get distributed. Are you under the impression that the government goes around vaccinating people? Because it doesn't.

Even if I accepted this premise, couldn't we talk about that in the "What did Republicans do right" thread? Democrats didn't get anything significantly wrong on vaccines (either messaging or governing) so that isn't something we need to address here.

Good point. I think I'll drop this discussion in this thread.

 

[Thermal]

You seem to be confused about how vaccines get distributed. Are you under the impression that the government goes around vaccinating people? Because it doesn't.

I have no confusion about the FDA regulating drugs in general, from their efficacy to distrobutuon, or the requirement to have children vaccinated when attending public schools, no.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

The big problem I see is the idea that our lives are in the hands of government officials. If this is an incorrect assessment, it needs to be corrected. If it is correct, then we need to fundamentally change the situation so that our lives are NOT in the hands of government officials, be they "quacks" or not.

Smallpox and polio are such a small price to pay for our precious bodily fluids personal freedoms.

It's interesting how quickly this morphed from: "Not all Trump voters are anti-vaxxers" to "Watch me split hairs as to why I myself am not actually an anti-vaxxer."

 

[esquel]

The big problem I see is the idea that our lives are in the hands of government officials. If this is an incorrect assessment, it needs to be corrected. If it is correct, then we need to fundamentally change the situation so that our lives are NOT in the hands of government officials, be they "quacks" or not.

The COVID tests and later vaccines came about because of a large government push using Pfizer, Moderna and other drug companies to create the tests and vaccines that helped prevent people from catching and dying of COVID. The true question is that of competency: do we wish to let the next round of vaccines when a pandemic inevitably happens be rigorously tested and instituted by competent government officials and companies, or do we want surviving the next pandemic to be left up to chance?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

a Pandemic, like a War are EXACTLY the reason why all Constitutions for Liberal Democracies have exceptions for emergencies: these are the cases where the general wellbeing is under so much threat that individual liberties might legitimately put on hold for the greater good - temporarily.

 

[Ziggurat]

The COVID tests and later vaccines came about because of a large government push using Pfizer, Moderna and other drug companies to create the tests and vaccines that helped prevent people from catching and dying of COVID. The true question is that of competency: do we wish to let the next round of vaccines when a pandemic inevitably happens be rigorously tested and instituted by competent government officials and companies, or do we want surviving the next pandemic to be left up to chance?

You seem to think I want no government involvement at all. That's not my position. My position is that I don't want my survival to depend upon the government. I want to be able to survive whether or not the government is functioning well. If the government works well and helps, that's a bonus, but first and foremost I want to be able to take my own steps in order to ensure my survival.

Oh, and the COVID vaccines don't actually work very well.

 

[Donal]

Our lives should be in our own hands. Being in the hands of government bureaucrats isn't any better than in the hands of oligarchs.

I remember some commie scumbag saying something like "a government of the people, for the people, by the people" and figured thats a good idea.

And yes, being in the hands of bureaucrats tends to be better since they tend not to be actively harming people for fun and profit. The armed enforces, ya, they hurt people for fun and profit. But, not the folks shuffling papers in an office.

 

[johnny karate]

Our lives should be in our own hands. Being in the hands of government bureaucrats isn't any better than in the hands of oligarchs.

That's basically how the system already works.

It's not, actually. As has already been pointed out, we have things like vaccine mandates and government distribution programs.

 

[johnny karate]

Even if I accepted this premise, couldn't we talk about that in the "What did Republicans do right" thread? Democrats didn't get anything significantly wrong on vaccines (either messaging or governing) so that isn't something we need to address here.

It is considering that 76 million people went for the anti-vax candidate.

 

[d4m10n]

It is considering that 76 million people went for the anti-vax candidate.

What did the Democrats do wrong to make that happen?

 

[ahhell]

What did the Democrats do wrong to make that happen?

Obviously, nothing, they did nothing wrong, ever.