Cont: Today's Mass Shooting (part 3)

[arthwollipot]

You pass a law.

Authoritarianism!

 

[Andy_Ross]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was remarking on the near-necessity of hunting firearms among the poor out West. Their misuse is a given.

I don't understand your questions. Of course my family had no use for things like WW2 Sturmgewehrs or 1950s AKs. No sensible, reasonable person did then or does now. (The AR15s that are so lamentably numerous today are almost entirely chambered for 5.56 NATO, which is not legal for hunting hooved game in Wyoming or, as far as I know and devoutly hope, in any other state or province or Finland.) That's what makes them and similar guns candidates for increasingly stringent regulation.

I can see a reason for someone collecting antique military arms.
I had several vintage service rifles myself and a few pistols while they were still legal.
I don't get the obsession with the AR though.

 

[sackett]

I can see a reason for someone collecting antique military arms.
I had several vintage service rifles myself and a few pistols while they were still legal.
I don't get the obsession with the AR though.

Antiques are outside the system, because they're often unserviceable or there's no ammo, and because they aren't as murderous as modern guns.

Of course, as time passes, some pretty deadly old irons will have to be classified and dealt with. I mentioned the Sturmgewehr, by now an antique in terms of age but completely up to date in effectiveness -- and ammo for it is being made again.

I'm with you regarding the AR, Kalasnikovs, and related toys. A civilian who glamorizes such things has got a number of screws loose, enough, in my extremist view, to be unfit to own them.

 

[Norman Alexander]

nothing I posted can possibly be twisted into "the rules" you and the Don have lied about me making.

Don't be coy. You know what we mean.

I'm talking to a liar.

LOL Tell us you disagree with what we said about you. Then go read your own posts about how you refer to black people.

No, I posted data earlier from Connecticut shootings, you should reread it. Incarcerating people who commit gun crimes will prevent a **** ton of future shootings.

You've got a bit of a problem with sequencing there, hotshot. In your solution, gun criminals get to be jailed only AFTER they have committed all the gun crimes. And then only if they are convicted. So lotsa people gotta die first BEFORE you jail anybody, then catch the shooters, try them and convict them. And meanwhile, more gun crimes happen. That's your solution.

Do you agree that perhaps preventing gun crimes in the first place might be a better solution?

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Most crime is committed by a small cohort of repeat offenders. Put them away and they can't offend again. Worked for El Salvador.

May I remind everybody that El Salvador did a deal with the largest drugs gang to deliver votes for him and isnow engaged in a strategy of kidnapping random civillians off the street while leaving known murderers and drug gang leaders go scot free.

Bukeke is also the man who replaced his country's currency with bitcoin which left El Salvadoreans engaging in economic activities solely through US dollars.

 

[Steve]

May I remind everybody that El Salvador did a deal with the largest drugs gang to deliver votes for him and isnow engaged in a strategy of kidnapping random civillians off the street while leaving known murderers and drug gang leaders go scot free.

Bukeke is also the man who replaced his country's currency with bitcoin which left El Salvadoreans engaging in economic activities solely through US dollars.

So you are saying that El Salvador is not a country that the USA should emulate, or be proud to be compared to?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Antiques are outside the system, because they're often unserviceable or there's no ammo, and because they aren't as murderous as modern guns.

Of course, as time passes, some pretty deadly old irons will have to be classified and dealt with. I mentioned the Sturmgewehr, by now an antique in terms of age but completely up to date in effectiveness -- and ammo for it is being made again.

I'm with you regarding the AR, Kalasnikovs, and related toys. A civilian who glamorizes such things has got a number of screws loose, enough, in my extremist view, to be unfit to own them.

The first generation of M16s are now old enough to be classified as C&R in the USA (Collectables and Relics)

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

I can't open the link. No matter, the data will be somewhere else.

About the availability of guns out West, especially in the mountain states: Hunting is important to working families, and access to a high power rifle (or even a .30-30) is justifiable. Ditto shotguns and .22s. (Hell, I grew up on wild game, and life would've been a damn sight harder without it.) Firearms control must take such arms into consideration, and not just out West. You can hunt whitetails half an hour's drive from downtown Chicago.

And that could make banning objectionable guns easier. Nobody can justify carrying an AR or handgun for hunting purposes. If he lives in a city, he'll have to argue damned hard to convince me that he should have actual hunting arms under his immediate control. He can store them under lock and key, and leave the key with the police. He'll no I'm not kidding.

Howsomever, I'm an extremist on gun restriction. That stance has been forced on me by a lifelong familiarity with smokepoles and the guys who get creamy-eyed over them.


I don't eat wild animals anymore either.

Given that even in Ireland, with one of the most restrictive licencing systems in the world, there are over 250,000 licences^ issued (for single shot or double barrell shotguns or for .22 calibre single shot rifles, with a few legacy restricted firearms licences*), it should be fairly easy to set up a system whereby if you can show you've done the safety training and are a responsible adult, you can get a firearm if you want.

^In a population of 5 million.
*Mostly pistolsm

 

[William Parcher]

Suspect in Colorado mass shooting that left 3 dead has been arrested, sheriff’s office says.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/20/us/custer-county-colorado-shooting

 

[W.D.Clinger]

Suspect in Colorado mass shooting that left 3 dead has been arrested, sheriff’s office says.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/20/us/custer-county-colorado-shooting

Quoting from that news article:

The deadly attack marks at least the 609th mass shooting in the US so far this year with four or more people shot, excluding the perpetrator

Those who insist upon a different definition of "mass shooting" should just ignore that sentence's use of the word "mass".

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

So you are saying that El Salvador is not a country that the USA should emulate, or be proud to be compared to?

Well when you put it that way...


I reckon El Salvador's a country that Somalia wouldn't be proud being compared with.

 

[Nessie]

Quoting from that news article:

Those who insist upon a different definition of "mass shooting" should just ignore that sentence's use of the word "mass".

Where 4 or more people have been shot (whether killed or injured) seems a reasonable definition of mass shooting. Less than 4 is just a shooting.

There have been 609 mass shootings by that definition so far. For all shootings, where anyone was killed, the total is 35,000 (2023 to October). There will be at least as many injured.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/116-people-died-gun-violence-day-us-year/story?id=97382759

 

[Darat]

Where 4 or more people have been shot (whether killed or injured) seems a reasonable definition of mass shooting. Less than 4 is just a shooting.

There have been 609 mass shootings by that definition so far. For all shootings, where anyone was killed, the total is 35,000 (2023 to October). There will be at least as many injured.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/116-people-died-gun-violence-day-us-year/story?id=97382759

Don't worry, just need to tweak that definition a bit and we can say the USA has no mass shootings this year - lets set it at 50 people being shot at and hey presto




Generated by Bing Create 22-11-23 "problem solved sweep it under the carpet cartoon"

 

[The Don]

Where 4 or more people have been shot (whether killed or injured) seems a reasonable definition of mass shooting. Less than 4 is just a shooting.

There have been 609 mass shootings by that definition so far. For all shootings, where anyone was killed, the total is 35,000 (2023 to October). There will be at least as many injured.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/116-people-died-gun-violence-day-us-year/story?id=97382759

Imagine if guns weren't so readily accessible and widely used in the US, the swimming pools would be full of corpses.

 

[Hercules56]

Assault Weapons and other rifles were responsible for around 3% of all gun deaths in the USA. I guess getting rid of assault-weapons is a false-solution to our problems.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

 

[The Don]

Assault Weapons and other rifles were responsible for around 3% of all gun deaths in the USA. I guess getting rid of assault-weapons is a false-solution to our problems.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

I suppose it depends on whether the number of people killed is the sole criterion to consider (as opposed to also considering the number injured, the number of people put at risk or the impact on public perception of firearms that assault-weapons have).

 

[Nessie]

Assault Weapons and other rifles were responsible for around 3% of all gun deaths in the USA. I guess getting rid of assault-weapons is a false-solution to our problems.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

The UK took the common sense action of banning rapid fire, multiple shot weapons, no matter their type. That makes a mass shooting much harder as the shooter has to constantly reload.

 

[Hercules56]

The UK took the common sense action of banning rapid fire, multiple shot weapons, no matter their type. That makes a mass shooting much harder as the shooter has to constantly reload.

Will be a long time before the USA allows or tolerates banning all semi-auto weapons. I hope you're a patient man.

 

[Thermal]

Assault Weapons and other rifles were responsible for around 3% of all gun deaths in the USA. I guess getting rid of assault-weapons is a false-solution to our problems.

Actually, it would likely save the lives of at least some of those 3%, and many in the mass shooting category. And what's the trade off? Americans don't have a certain kind of weapon that they have no non-mass-shooting reason to have in the first place.

And I'm talking ZERO ******* reason to have an AR or AK or similar. Those guys can play Army on a paintball range if they like. Beyond some competitive shooting events, you really don't have a civilian application for a thousand dollar beer can pinker.

Then ban public carry of handguns, and start weeding out the semis, till we are down to revolvers carrying up to six rounds, with a similar magazine restriction on long guns.

 

[Nessie]

Will be a long time before the USA allows or tolerates banning all semi-auto weapons. I hope you're a patient man.

I have been arguing it will never happen. The USA will forever more allow guns that mean deer and children can be pumped full of bullets, as a sport, till they are dead.