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The Valley of the Wood Apes

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King of the Americas said:
I've read that many native american indigenous people each have a name for just such a creature-

Ba'wis (Tsimshian Indian Bigfoot)
Boqs (Bella Coola Bigfoot)
Bush Indians (Alaskan Athabaskan Bigfoot)
Chiye-Tanka (Sioux Indian Bigfoot)
Choanito/Night People (Wenatchi Indian Bigfoot)
Hairy Man (Yokuts Indian Bigfoot)
Kohuneje (Maidu Indian Bigfoot)
Lariyin (Dogrib Indian Bigfoot)
Lofa (Chickasaw Indian Bigfoot)
Matah Kagmi (Modoc Indian Bigfoot)
Maxemista (Cheyenne Indian Bigfoot)
Na'in (Gwich'in Indian Bigfoot)
Nakani (Dene Indian Bigfoot)
Nant'ina (Tanaina Indian Bigfoot)
Nik'inla'eena' (Koyukon Indian Bigfoot)
Omah (Hupa Indian Bigfoot)
Sasquatch (Coast Salish Indian Bigfoot)
Seeahtlk (Clallam Indian Bigfoot)
Shampe (Choctaw Indian Bigfoot)
Siatco (Chehalis Indian Bigfoot)
Skookum (Chinook Indian Bigfoot)
Ste-ye-hah'mah (Yakama Indian Bigfoot)
Stick Indians (Northwest Coast Bigfeet)
*The Woodsman (Athabaskan Indian Bigfoot)

One would probably be hard pressed to find a primitive culture that does not contain such characters in their common lore.

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I've also read they were 'hunted' into extinction. Dodos, passenger pigeons, sure, but a humanoid, that can reason, make tools, and flee?

Given the hardy nature of the Neanderthal, is it truly reasonable to believe ALL of their habitat was taken over by the new people on the block?

The selection process that occurred would mean that IF any survived this 'hunt' those left over would have developed an innate fear of the hairless spear chuckers. Surviving would mean they had to be better at un-detection than their predators.

While not likely, I think it is possible that hunting humanoids will eventually yield perfectly camouflaged and elusive survivors.
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May I point out that the Indian legends and stories you are pointing too describe creatures similar to the "Little People" in Irish and other folk traditions. I am also reminded of the Satyrs of Ancient Greece and also of the very wide assortment of imaginary / supernatural creatures that fills folk tales world wide.

The creatures described in the lore of American Indians are supernatural creatures of the wild, Nature Spirits if you will and has such are a common motif / trope world wide. They are almost certainly not real.

As for becoming good at hiding etc. That is special pleading. The bottom line is that hard evidence for such creatures being around today is in effect zero assuming that is so because of some inherent ability to disappear solves nothing.

As for this collection of alleged Wood Apes isn't it so remarkable that a second growth forest visited by hordes of tourists etc., to say nothing of employees who manage it some how entirely miss any trace of the Wood Apes? And that this is so despite the fact the alleged Wood Apes do non hiding crap like throw stones at cabins. Whatever.
 
Pacal said:
May I point out that the Indian legends and stories you are pointing too describe creatures similar to the "Little People" in Irish and other folk traditions. I am also reminded of the Satyrs of Ancient Greece and also of the very wide assortment of imaginary / supernatural creatures that fills folk tales world wide.

The creatures described in the lore of American Indians are supernatural creatures of the wild, Nature Spirits if you will and has such are a common motif / trope world wide. They are almost certainly not real...
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Stories about unicorns don't discredit ones about zebras.
 
Cervelo said:
Painthorse.....good grief, you sure seem to remember your days at BFF pretty well, I had to look that one up.
By the way even as a banned member you can do a search at BFF, that's what I did found some really interesting stuff!
Painthorse....she's making the exact same silly claim the NAWACKIES are...in fact she would be considered a habitator....she claims Bigfoot hangs around in her backyard on a regular basis. She posted a picture of a bird that she thinks is a baby Bigfoot https://www.flickr.com/photos/paint_horse1/8361079574/
All sorts of spooky noises therefore BIGFEETS just like the NAWACKIES in virtually the same location....do you have the same opinion of her claims?

Got to revisit some interesting stuff during my search..your TV remote issues and disappearing cigarette butts had striking similarities to our discussions here ;)

You had a Bigfoot in your backyard to?
[qimg]http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy242/RCM944/74AD755C-8756-4AFD-A82B-F78CFD6DCFB9.jpg[/qimg]
Or just a history of baseless claims regardless of which side of the fence your on.
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When I go to the BFF site it says I don't have permission to look at anything much less search for anything. I remember a pic of a baby bigfoot that I think is a turkey that belonged to Painthorse. There was also a pic of something, I don't know what exactly, but it looked like a man shaped heatwave.

I still haven't figured out what was taking stuff for certain, it wasn't bigfoot, but creepy stuff did happen. It still does.
 
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Jodie said:
When I go to the BFF site it says I don't have permission to look at anything much less search for anything. I remember a pic of a baby bigfoot that I think is a turkey that belonged to Painthorse. There was also a pic of something, I don't know what exactly, but it looked like a man shaped heatwave.

I still haven't figured out what was taking stuff for certain, it wasn't bigfoot, but creepy stuff did happen. It still does.
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Why are you going out of your way to protect and shield this painthorse person?

Does this person have no mind of their own?

Do you have some obscure reason to protect this individual?

Did "painthorse" appoint you as advocate?

Are you afraid to disagree in any way with "painthorse"?

Frankly, your defense of some obscure intertube yahoo that nobody has ever heard of while refusing to disclose anything at all about him/her/it/housecat leads me to a certain conclusion.

Secret sources are perfectly fine. Imaginary ones are not.

If this imaginary "painthorse" persona exists, and this persona has actual solid evidence of anything, why is there nothing to show?

What is this "painthorse" scared of?
 
abaddon said:
Why are you going out of your way to protect and shield this painthorse person?

Does this person have no mind of their own?

Do you have some obscure reason to protect this individual?

Did "painthorse" appoint you as advocate?

Are you afraid to disagree in any way with "painthorse"?

Frankly, your defense of some obscure intertube yahoo that nobody has ever heard of while refusing to disclose anything at all about him/her/it/housecat leads me to a certain conclusion.

Secret sources are perfectly fine. Imaginary ones are not.

If this imaginary "painthorse" persona exists, and this persona has actual solid evidence of anything, why is there nothing to show?

What is this "painthorse" scared of?
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It's against the rules here to out people. If I give the exact location of where I was then you 'll be able to research property records to figure out who she is. I'm sure she wouldn't appreciate it.

I haven't spoken to Painthorse since I left the BFF. I don't know that it's a matter of agreeing or disagreeing if you're talking about the photos. She posted her photos on the BFF which is where I saw them. I simply stated here what I thought they were or weren't and what they looked like to me.

She might be a bigfoot yahoo as you describe her but she definitely doesn't want other footers trespassing on her property. It's the same reason BB gives for not wanting anyone to know where Area X is located. I can't say I blame either of them except I don't think NAWAC is really out there loaded for bear looking for bigfoot.

As far as I'm concerned you can draw whatever conclusion you so desire, it makes no difference to me one way or the other. I personally don't think it's a big deal that I took a ride in a forest and didn't find anything.
 
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King of the Americas said:
Stories about unicorns don't discredit ones about zebras.
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Yeah but if something was in those woods that was even remotely close to human I'm betting what passes for forensics in Oklahoma or Arkansas wouldn't know the difference. Are there any records of recent human remains, or at least in the last 10 years, having been found that weren't identified? Because if something is living out there then someone is going to come across a dead body eventually, among other evidence of habitation . That hasn't happened yet. These are easy things for you to research for yourself if you wanted to really delve into your theory.
 
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Drewbot said:
Oh, by the way, one virgin forest in Oklahoma over 10 acres. one.
[IMGw=640]http://imageshack.com/a/img923/7185/5rQCeR.jpg[/IMGw]
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And there ain't no bigfoots there, either.

Keystone is old growth in that many of the trees are quite old (300 years+) but the reason it was never logged is that productivity there is actually quite low. It's "crosstimbers" forest of post oak, blackjack oak, and eastern redcedar. It's open canopy, rocky, near savanna stuff and the trees are gnarled, twisted, and rarely more than 15m tall.

Better wood ape country would be the river bottoms in the Ouachitas nearer Area X. There are cypress in the Little River NWR, for example, as big as any I've seen anywhere in the Southeast. Deer, catfish, turtles, and hogs abound out there, despite the fact that those woods were completely logged out about 80 years ago. I assume the wood apes vacated when the bears, mountain lions, and wolves were eradicated about the same time.

Today, Ouachitas' forests are mature and marketable again. Deer are again abundant, bears have recolonized from Arkansas, hogs have moved in and taken over, and there probably are now a handful of mountain lions that have reclaimed some former range there. (Of course, if you listen to the locals there are more mountain lions than squirrels!) All of this means that the wood apes must definitely be back, too.

The National Forest and public and private lands in the region today support a robust forest products industry, mostly based on plantation pines. Forget the visitors (for whom the ONF is to Dallas-Fort Worth what the Adirondacks are to NYC), and just consider the nonstop parade of logging trucks, anglers, hunters, and hikers. Those forests are impressive, but there are plenty of people going through there, year 'round. I can't wait for the inevitable wood ape photos - only a matter of time!

I last worked in the Ouachitas in 2006–2007, but I have colleagues who've been there right along. One guy is a USFS biologist who studies bats. He lives and works there year 'round, and he spends an awful lot of his time in the field in the middle of the night. I also know a couple of game wardens in the area. They too are frequently out in the wee small hours trying to catch poachers. The inevitable wood ape photos these folks produce are gonna be awesome!

I currently have one project going in Oklahoma forests, but we're farther north in the Ozarks. Culturally, bigfoot is just as big there as in the Ouachitas, and there are dozens of BFRO reports in our study area. I've got a crew of 4 working creek bottoms for streamside bird communities. They get into some wild stuff, e.g., logging road access only on wildlife management areas. They're dodging bears, copperheads, meth heads, cottonmouths, feral hogs, and - as of this past week - elk on this project. Be looking for our inevitable frame-filling mug of an Ozark wood ape coming to a National Geographic cover near you!
 
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William Parcher said:
I don't think that a civilian can legally do such a thing.

Your claims of surveying the region are really preposterous. It reminds me of your claim to have seen Abraham Lincoln speaking to the public in one of your past lives. You are a constant source of extraordinary claims.

It's as if you are a singularly fantastic presence on the planet. I'm skeptical of virtually everything that you say. You talk about yourself all the time here, so the arguments are drawn onto you rather than the object of your claims. It tests the forum guideline of "attack the argument, not the arguer" because you force the argument to be about you based on personal anecdotal experience.
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I've referenced this post several times....thought it might be helpful.
 
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Several posts have found a new home in Abandon All Hope. Bickering is not a substitute for discussion. Please continue with the later; eschew the former.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jsfisher
 
King of the Americas said:
You're asking me to 'speculate' as to why no bones have been found?

I guess, I'd only point to the selection process employed...

They were hunted, 'tracked,' any evidence left behind would ultimately lead to their demise. Those that survived this process would be equipped to 'disappear' without a trace. Burying their dead, walking only on rocks, or travel through the trees, maybe they dismember their dead, and employed a "never leave anyone behind" mentality?

Did Gigantopithecus ever exist in the Americas?

Pull that other thread up, and I'll post there instead, if you wish?
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Gigantopithecus never got within 3000 miles of the Asian side of Beringea.

Native Americans made up lots of Boogeyman stories. Which do you think are based on real creatures, and which ones are just made up? How can you know? show your work.

Kanontsistonties: The Flying Heads

Iroquois myths include some nightmarish tales, but the Flying Heads are the creepiest by a long shot. There are many stories about these evil creatures, most of which portray them as a kind of vampire, and they vary in size from tiny to humongous. The most familiar story involves one of the beasts attacking a woman who was roasting chestnuts; the creature accidentally ingested a hot coal from the fire, which burned it to ashes.
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Mishipeshu: The Water-Panther

The story of the Water-Panther spans multiple tribes, including Cree, Algonquin, Ojibwe, and Shawnee. It’s usually described as a giant dragon-like feline, and the most common element is the monster’s aquatic habitat; it lurks in lakes and rivers, waiting for humans to come close to the water, then pulls them under and drowns them. It’s even said to have a snaky, prehensile tail that aids it in snaring its prey.
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Uktena: The Horned Serpent

Cherokee legends prominently feature this dragon-like behemoth, which is believed to have originated as a human, taking the serpentine shape to seek vengeance on those who wronged them. Much like the dragons of European myth, there are stories of men proving their bravery by confronting one of the powerful beasts, who are also lightning-fast and can devour a person in one bite.
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http://www.blumhouse.com/2016/03/31/the-10-most-terrifying-native-american-legends/
 
Jodie said:
It's one thing to read the asinine report, quite another when you have someone that sounds intelligent, forthright, and definitely not the typical redneck that you encounter in bigfootery when meeting them in person. My guess is she was taken in by the sales pitch, we are all fallible human beings, she simply let her bias win over common sense in this particular episode. I don't think it takes away from her overall approach to the weird in general.
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Then she needs to seriously reconsider changing her name from "I Doubt It." Getting suckered into buying a load of nonsense, despite supposedly being well-versed in what nonsense is, and making a habit of having yourself be a beacon for and a promoter of critical thinking on the internet, well that's just silly, imo. She gave it credence, for apparently no reason other than: "guy seemed legit," then complained because everyone obviously questioned her on it, then ignored the whole fiasco and resumed her role as the wannabe Dana Scully of the cryptid internet world.

Imo, that's not only sad, but it's embarrassing, and I for one couldn't give a toss what she thinks and never have. Those kinds of high horses, and the people who sit atop them, aren't my thing.
 
Jodie said:
BB is very well spoken. He did a podcast for years and has a tendency to play the skeptic if it's someone elses' claims. I doubt Ms. Hill knew that going in and I can see how she fell for his sales pitch. I'm not holding that one incident against her when everything else she writes about seems to have an even handed approach.

When you are at work, or going about life in general, has every decision or opinion you've ever had or made been correct? The answer is a resounding NO. Then why hang this person's reputation when you yourselves can't maintain that standard?
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The difference is that I'm not skipping around promoting myself as some master sceptic and having a radio show and a site devoted to such things. I'm just a bloke on the internet who finds Bigfoot funny and likes to chat about those nonsensical things in between getting on with my actual life beyond this forum.

Basically, it's like being a vegetarian and promoting a vegetarian lifestyle to all who'll bother listening, then getting duped into eating a BLT because the guy who made it had a nice smile and sensible hair.
 
Jodie said:
When I go to the BFF site it says I don't have permission to look at anything much less search for anything. I remember a pic of a baby bigfoot that I think is a turkey that belonged to Painthorse. There was also a pic of something, I don't know what exactly, but it looked like a man shaped heatwave.

I still haven't figured out what was taking stuff for certain, it wasn't bigfoot, but creepy stuff did happen. It still does.
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So do you think Painthouse and her pics/stories are a complete fabrication, just as you do the NAWACKIES?
She's making the exact same claim apparently in virtually the same location.
 
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