The Freeman Movement and England

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Just spent most of this morning reading this thread from start to finish, and my God the ridiculousness is astounding! I know a couple of people who have recently found these guys and were going on about how it's the way out of paying any debt or to stick it to the "man". I'll point them to this thread in the future as they don't seem to believe me when I say that they're talking crap.

I look forward to seeing if Especially (is that cos he's "special?") comes back after his self-imposed suspension. Obviously he couldn't have been suspended by anyone on here because the user terms you sign up to to join are written by someone who doesn't know about common law and it's merely a statute to keep the NWO in power and stealing your bio-electricity to feed their computers that monitor our brainwaves. :rolleyes:

I note that after 77 odd pages, he still hasn't pointed to a single, solitary case of someone asserting these so-called rights and not being subject to some serious judicial butt-kicking. I won't hold my breath, I might die.
 
Hans said:
Horatius & Rimerol

Thanks for your comments

How large would you estimate FOTL would have to become to attract the attention of the UK/Canadian,Ozzie or US governments?
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Here in the UK the FMOTL movement don't have access to firearms & therefore their 'threat' is minimal. At present they seem to be treated with remarkable tolerance by the Courts where they do their 'performances'
 
nvidiot said:
Just spent most of this morning reading this thread from start to finish, and my God the ridiculousness is astounding! I know a couple of people who have recently found these guys and were going on about how it's the way out of paying any debt or to stick it to the "man". I'll point them to this thread in the future as they don't seem to believe me when I say that they're talking crap.

I look forward to seeing if Especially (is that cos he's "special?") comes back after his self-imposed suspension. Obviously he couldn't have been suspended by anyone on here because the user terms you sign up to to join are written by someone who doesn't know about common law and it's merely a statute to keep the NWO in power and stealing your bio-electricity to feed their computers that monitor our brainwaves. :rolleyes:

I note that after 77 odd pages, he still hasn't pointed to a single, solitary case of someone asserting these so-called rights and not being subject to some serious judicial butt-kicking. I won't hold my breath, I might die.
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There is the Credit River Decision:

http://educationcenter2000.com/legal/credit_river_decision.htm

Seen by Freemen across the world as a complete vindication of their 'jurisprudence' & seen by the rest of us as the mad ramblings of an obscure Minnesota Judge. BTW that's it. That's all they've got!
 
The Credit River Decision. I couldn't find any follow up to that just the same decision post over and over again on fringe websites. Does anyone know what happened on appeal?
 
Hans said:
The Credit River Decision. I couldn't find any follow up to that just the same decision post over and over again on fringe websites. Does anyone know what happened on appeal?
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History doesn't relate but I wouldn't be in the least surprised if a higher court blew it out of the water.
 
Hans said:
The Credit River Decision. I couldn't find any follow up to that just the same decision post over and over again on fringe websites. Does anyone know what happened on appeal?
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According to Wikipedia (citing the Minnesota State Law Library as a source), "the bank appealed the next day, and the decision was ultimately nullified on the grounds that a Justice of the Peace did not have the power to make such a ruling."

Note also that the page cited as a source states that "the decisions of these justice of the peace courts are not precedential", so unless it was actually affirmed by a higher court, it doesn't matter.

I haven't been able to find out whether a JP in Minnesota in the 60s even had to be a qualified lawyer. The Wikipedia page about Martin V. Mahoney, the JP in this case, doesn't give any biographical details (although on the discussion page there is a comment that "Mahoney was not a "judge" nor was he a lawyer. His death cert described him as a farmer" - no source is given for this though).
 
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A JP would be a lay magistrate in Britain. My father (a clergyman) was one, and so was a veterinary colleague. My father spoke of relying on the Clerk of the Court for advice on legal matters.

I suspect the US terminology represents much the same setup.

Rolfe.
 
The jury decided against the bank. The landowner's defense had been that the bank had not lent him any actual money, but had simply created credit on its books, and therefore, since nothing of value had been advanced by the bank, it was not entitled to the property that had been given as security for the loan. Although he did not ultimately prevail, this case has been celebrated by many of those groups and individuals that practice "law on the edge" as we call it in our Pathfinder to Law on the Edge: Sovereign Citizens, Common Law Courts, Patriot Groups, Tax Protesters, et al..
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http://www.lawlibrary.state.mn.us/creditriver.html

I find it strange that even if the jury decided that the bank had not given him anything of value that he would believe he would have the right to keep the house.
In reality the house should go back to the previous owner as they recieved nothing of value from the current owner etc,etc,etc down a never ending chain of transactions.

If you are in any doubt about the competancy of the JP he said this
Only God can create something of value out of nothing.
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http://www.hiddenmysteries.org/themagazine/vol14/research/bank-secrets.shtml

JB
 
Mojo said:
According to Wikipedia (citing the Minnesota State Law Library as a source), "the bank appealed the next day, and the decision was ultimately nullified on the grounds that a Justice of the Peace did not have the power to make such a ruling."

Note also that the page cited as a source states that "the decisions of these justice of the peace courts are not precedential", so unless it was actually affirmed by a higher court, it doesn't matter.

I haven't been able to find out whether a JP in Minnesota in the 60s even had to be a qualified lawyer. The Wikipedia page about Martin V. Mahoney, the JP in this case, doesn't give any biographical details (although on the discussion page there is a comment that "Mahoney was not a "judge" nor was he a lawyer. His death cert described him as a farmer" - no source is given for this though).
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So it was demolished by a 'higher court' then?
 
Rolfe said:
A JP would be a lay magistrate in Britain. My father (a clergyman) was one, and so was a veterinary colleague. My father spoke of relying on the Clerk of the Court for advice on legal matters.

I suspect the US terminology represents much the same setup.
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I'm not sure of that. In the UK magistrates are there largely to decide matters of fact in the same way as a jury is (with, as you say, the clerk advising on the law). In the case in question there was a jury as well as the JP. Whether JPs in the US need a legal qualification seems to vary from state to state, and I can't find any information about this in Minnesota (possibly "justices of the peace" no longer exist there?).
 
jargon buster said:
Especially has resurfaced
http://tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=14774

I would start but Im banned :D
JB
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Notwattyler (Especially):

I see no evidence of them operating according to the Common Law. I see instead (for example).

1. Courts registered as businesses

Really. I wonder what version of Companies House database he's been looking at. Of course he doesn't provide any evidence himself to prove this or any of the other claims he makes.
 
commandlinegamer said:
Notwattyler (Especially):

I see no evidence of them operating according to the Common Law. I see instead (for example).

1. Courts registered as businesses

Really. I wonder what version of Companies House database he's been looking at. Of course he doesn't provide any evidence himself to prove this or any of the other claims he makes.
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He's probably found the registration for these people and got confused. ;)
 
commandlinegamer said:
Notwattyler (Especially):

I see no evidence of them operating according to the Common Law. I see instead (for example).

1. Courts registered as businesses

Really. I wonder what version of Companies House database he's been looking at. Of course he doesn't provide any evidence himself to prove this or any of the other claims he makes.
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Its part of the greater FOTL mythology that anything with a corporation is an innately diabolical conspiracy that is out to strip you of your rights and destroy you. They don't quite seem to get that government institutions can have corporations, but not because of some vast anti-common law conspiracy. Its actually kind of ironic, because at least in the US, government corporations are wonderful things for citizens. Unlike the government itself, its corporations can be sued directly!

I tried so many times to explain to the DI nutters that they should be so happy the government has corporations. I can sue the corporation of the United States. Without a corporation, I would have no way to seek redress if the government harmed me and I could not link that harm directly to a single government employee or group of employees. The government has sovereign immunity to stop a million lawsuits a year from dragging the entire executive, legislative, and judicial branch into court every time the IRS wrongly tries to fine me. It has a corporation so that even if I cannot find who in the IRS made the error, I can still sue the organization.

Leave it to the FOTL wakos to spin something that is actually good for your average citizen and turn it into a conspiracy.
 
commandlinegamer said:
Notwattyler (Especially):

I see no evidence of them operating according to the Common Law. I see instead (for example).

1. Courts registered as businesses

Really. I wonder what version of Companies House database he's been looking at. Of course he doesn't provide any evidence himself to prove this or any of the other claims he makes.
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I think you should lighten up on notwattyler. That sort of severe deformity could affect the sanity of any young lady.
 
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