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School shooting Florida

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thaiboxerken said:
In Cruz's case, it wasn't. The students at that high school shunned him because of his racist, hateful behavior.
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This is the bit I find a bit laughable.

Either a certain behaviour of a social group towards one of their own is bullying or it is not

Edit: Though I get your point
 
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cullennz said:
This is the bit I find a bit laughable.

Either a certain behaviour of a social group towards one of their own is bullying or it is not
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You are wrong. Cruz was not one of them, he was a Nazi who hated homosexuals, minorities and women. He tortured animals for fun. To expect that the other kids in the high school to accept him as a peer is ridiculous. But keep on trying to convince me that Nazis and bigots should be treated with respect and admiration.
 
cullennz said:
This is the bit I find a bit laughable.

Either a certain behaviour of a social group towards one of their own is bullying or it is not

Edit: Though I get your point
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I don't know that it's bullying to want to not hang out with someone. That makes no sense to me at all.

I don't want to hang out with people for a number of reasons. From something relatively minor, such as them being boring or uninteresting all the way up to me thinking they're a liability and a magnet for trouble. None of this is bullying

If everyone this person met decided he was a *********** lunatic and they didn't want anything to do with him, that's still not bullying.

I'm utterly amazed that anyone can interpret it that way and, I promise you, anyone who's actually been bullied at school would be thinking "Sweet, they're leaving me alone, I'll just read my book."

If we count 'being ignored' as bullying, that belittles the *********** awful experiences of slightly odd kids the world over who are actually bullied.
 
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cullennz said:
This is the bit I find a bit laughable.

Either a certain behaviour of a social group towards one of their own is bullying or it is not

Edit: Though I get your point
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Not at all, it would depend on the circumstances.

Let me ask you: was you mates with every kid in your year and the kids in the entire school? Or were there some kids you didn't interact with or only interacted with when you had to?
 
cullennz said:
Well she said they ostracised him.


"Those talking about how we should have not ostracized him, you didn't know this kid. OK, we did.*"


https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...orida-student-emma-gonzalez-speech/index.html
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This is a case where a 17 year old isn't very good with words. What she was saying, in context, is that there were warning signs that this kid had big problems since middle school, and that school administrators and others had been informed of those big problems many, many, times by his peers. She used the word "ostracized", which carries a connotation that a group of people set him apart, but what the rest of the paragraph from which that was taken implies that his own behavior is what set him apart.

She and her friends have been sufficiently successful in waking people up that the NRA style gun rights supporters have to find something to attack. They're on the defensive for once, and they have to find a hole to attack, so they're after a seventeen year old and trying to find a way to personally attack her. They've used out of context quotes. They've used photoshopped pictures. They've made a big deal about a Cuban flag, which would be a big deal, if she were not of Cuban ancestry, but since she is, it's about as important as an Irish flag on Saint Patrick's day.

Well, Emma will realize that when you take a stand publically, you get attacked. I think she has figured that out already, and so far, they've got nothing. She used the word "ostracized", which they have tried to turn into "bully", as if somehow that was the issue here. Even if she was the biggest, meanest, bully in the world, what would it matter? I think the real point comes from the last sentence in the same paragraph that "ostracized" comes from. That last sentence was, "He couldn't have killed seventeen people with a knife."
 
3point14 said:
I don't know that it's bullying to want to not hang out with someone. That makes no sense to me at all.

I don't want to hang out with people for a number of reasons. From something relatively minor, such as them being boring or uninteresting all the way up to me thinking they're a liability and a magnet for trouble. None of this is bullying

If everyone this person met decided he was a *********** lunatic and they didn't want anything to do with him, that's still not bullying.

I'm utterly amazed that anyone can interpret it that way and, I promise you, anyone who's actually been bullied at school would be thinking "Sweet, they're leaving me alone, I'll just read my book."

If we count 'being ignored' as bullying, that belittles the *********** awful experiences of slightly odd kids the world over who are actually bullied.
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But the True Bigots are those who are not friends with Nazis. Remember Nazis are good people, the president says so. So who wouldn't want to be friends with a good person who is also a nazi?
 
thaiboxerken said:
I googled it and the "admission of bullying" isn't really something that happened. She said that she and her peers ostracized Cruz in response to his behavior. Shunning a Nazi because of his hate speech is not bullying. Try again.
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Depends on what she meant by ostracize. Bullying doesn't need to involve anything physical.

What other characteristics, besides being "Nazi," would a person possibly have that would make him or her acceptable to be ostracized?
 
CaptainHowdy said:
Try googling 'using the wrong pronoun is bullying'
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Umm...it is? Intentionally calling people names is bullying too. There is nothing wrong with being a 'him' just like there is nothing wrong with being a 'Ben', but if you're calling a woman named Sandra 'him' and 'Ben' intentionally, that's probably bullying.

Why would you believe otherwise? :confused:
 
Why is anyone paying attention to these kids? They're just reciting words put in their heads by adults. The fact of the matter is that guns don't kill people, people kill people. And if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them (and the same applies to "gun-free zones").
 
CaptainHowdy said:
Depends on what she meant by ostracize. Bullying doesn't need to involve anything physical.

What other characteristics, besides being "Nazi," would a person possibly have that would make him or her acceptable to be ostracized?
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You're not being serious, are you? This guy was a seriously unpleasant piece of work, and somehow, kids not wanting him around them is bullying? Do you realise just how desperate that sounds? It's never good when you start blaming the victims.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
Everybody else knows what I'm talking about or if they didn't, they know how to google something like 'emma admits to bullying cruz' and find out.
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Typically, rational thinkers interested in honest discussion don’t force other people to do the work required to prove their claims.

Also, most of us aren’t interested in going to the rightwing crank websites that you frequent to dredge up this garbage.
 
cullennz said:
While I think the bullying thing is a pretty pathetic attempt to discredit the protesters, the ones siding with them suddenly saying ostracising isn't bullying is incredibly humorous given half of them are the same people who think addressing someone by the wrong self chosen pronoun is bullying or to some of them assault
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Cite required for the highlighted.

That aside, feel free to google the definitions of “ostracize” and “bully”. You’ll find them to have different meanings.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
Depends on what she meant by ostracize. Bullying doesn't need to involve anything physical.

What other characteristics, besides being "Nazi," would a person possibly have that would make him or her acceptable to be ostracized?
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Those other characteristics were already provided.

Also, it's weird – and at the same time, very revealing - that you don’t think someone being a Nazi is enough for others to choose not to associate with him.


CaptainHowdy said:
Try googling 'using the wrong pronoun is bullying'
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Will doing so reveal that half of the people correctly stating that ostracization is not bullying also be “the same people who think addressing someone by the wrong self chosen pronoun is bullying or to some of them assault”?

Because that’s the claim for which evidence is being requested.
 
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