School shooting Florida

[Meadmaker]

Everybody else knows what I'm talking about or if they didn't, they know how to google something like 'emma admits to bullying cruz' and find out.

I did the google thing, and found out, and afterwards, I still didn't care.

Neither do you. Do you really care whether or not Cruz was bullied, and if so, by whom? The bullying thing comes up a lot after school shootings. It's usually the right wingers who dismiss it, preferring "He was evil" to "He was bullied." Why, this time, do they think it's an issue.

The answer, of course, is that they don't. That includes you, by the way. You don't care. You just think that if you can attack some symbol of the movement, it might derail the movement It's a common enough tactic. Sometimes it even works, but when all is said and done, it's just a deflection away from the real issue. Regardless of his past, and regardless of his motivation, on February 14, Nick Cruz had a gun that could spray a whole lot of bullets very fast, and he chose to use it, and as a result, Jamie Guttenberg will never.


That last bit is a reference to Emma Gonzalez' speech on Pennsylvania Avenue last Saturday. Very, very, powerful speech. I can see why the NRA wants to do anything they can to silence her.

 

[johnny karate]

You're not being serious, are you? This guy was a seriously unpleasant piece of work, and somehow, kids not wanting him around them is bullying? Do you realise just how desperate that sounds? It's never good when you start blaming the victims.

The irony of course being that the rightwing noise machine and its army of flying monkeys promulgating this false bullying claim are the same ones using their positions of power to publicly attack underage victims of a mass shooting.

It’s always projection with these hateful goons.

 

[Parsman]

Seems tackling the root causes of both the bullying and reaction would stop suicide and murder. While banning an object would at beast reduce the severity of the attempts to harm others.

But only one of the options let's us be ******** to conservatives so I wonder which one puerile will tend to pick.

That is seriously your take from this? That people who are seriously concerned about gun violence that seems to be endemic in the USA only propose better gun control laws to offend conservatives? What about the many conservatives who must also be in favour of better gun control for the polling figures to reach 90% or more in favour. Are they just in it to offend their friends or political allies? Wanting better gun control should not be a partisan issue. However the failure of the leadership of the GOP to seriously look at laws that may improve the situation may turn it into a partisan issue in the mid-terms and I fear they are more worried about that than in doing anything to try and save American lives.

 

[cullennz]

Exactly, it is morally wrong not to be friends with Nazis.

I never said it was morally wrong

I never said I blame them for anything.

I in fact even said that I think it would have happened any way.

I would have dissed the bloke if I was a student there.

What I said was it is laughable to try to pretend it isnt classed as bullying given the current climate in schools

 

[Nessie]

The irony of course being that the rightwing noise machine and its army of flying monkeys promulgating this false bullying claim are the same ones using their positions of power to publicly attack underage victims of a mass shooting.

It’s always projection with these hateful goons.

It just means if one of the Parkland kids then shoots someone who has criticised them, it is not the kids fault.

 

[alfaniner]

Why is anyone paying attention to these kids? They're just reciting words put in their heads by adults.

How would that do anything to negate their message? What difference would that make?

The fact of the matter is that guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Some guns can allow one person to kill many people, very quickly.

And if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have them (and the same applies to "gun-free zones").

No one wants to eliminate guns or gun ownership, knowing that it would be impossible. They are pressing for an end to gun violence and mass murder.

 

[smartcooky]

I never said it was morally wrong

I never said I blame them for anything.

I in fact even said that I think it would have happened any way.

I would have dissed the bloke if I was a student there.

What I said was it is laughable to try to pretend it isn't classed as bullying given the current climate in schools

You're being wound up cullenz. PT posts controversial, counter-productive rubbish just for the lolz..... don't bite!

 

[jimbob]

You're being wound up cullenz. PT posts controversial, counter-productive rubbish just for the lolz..... don't bite!

That's not *quite* how I read most of their posts... more like taking some of the headbanging conservative views and extrapolating to their logical conclusion.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

You're not being serious, are you? This guy was a seriously unpleasant piece of work, and somehow, kids not wanting him around them is bullying? Do you realise just how desperate that sounds? It's never good when you start blaming the victims.

Kids are usually bullied because something about them makes them different. The reaction of some people here is that Cruz wasn't bullied because he was a Nazi or that he was bullied but he deserved to be bullied because he was Nazi. So bullying a Nazi is OK. I just wonder what other characteristics a person could possess that would make bullying them acceptable.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Typically, rational thinkers interested in honest discussion don’t force other people to do the work required to prove their claims.

Also, most of us aren’t interested in going to the rightwing crank websites that you frequent to dredge up this garbage.

Right wing crank websites like CNN?

But former neighbor Paul Gold told CNN that Zachary Cruz, though more than a year younger, grew up to be bigger and more physically developed.

Eventually, Gold said, Zachary and other kids ostracized and bullied Nikolas.
"They were constantly alienating him and not allowing him to partake in games, like kickball on the street or riding bicycles," Gold said. "Nikolas would constantly go home very angry."​

 

[ponderingturtle]

That's not *quite* how I read most of their posts... more like taking some of the headbanging conservative views and extrapolating to their logical conclusion.

Exactly. If not being friends with someone is bullying and most people would argue that bullying is immoral then it is immoral not to be friends with nazis.

Simple logical progression of modern conservative thought.

 

[Meadmaker]

Kids are usually bullied because something about them makes them different. The reaction of some people here is that Cruz wasn't bullied because he was a Nazi or that he was bullied but he deserved to be bullied because he was Nazi. So bullying a Nazi is OK. I just wonder what other characteristics a person could possess that would make bullying them acceptable.

Or, you are just trying to deflect from the fact that regardless of why, how, or if he was bullied, "He couldn't have killed seventeen people with a knife."

 

[TheGoldcountry]

Kids are usually bullied because something about them makes them different. The reaction of some people here is that Cruz wasn't bullied because he was a Nazi or that he was bullied but he deserved to be bullied because he was Nazi. So bullying a Nazi is OK. I just wonder what other characteristics a person could possess that would make bullying them acceptable.

Saying "Hey Nazi, get the **** out of here!" would be a type of bullying. Choosing not to socially associate with someone because their Nazi views disturb you, isn't.

Nobody here is saying that bullying him was OK SOLELY BECAUSE HE WAS A NAZI, no matter how many times you willingly misinterpret it.

 

[johnny karate]

Kids are usually bullied because something about them makes them different. The reaction of some people here is that Cruz wasn't bullied because he was a Nazi or that he was bullied but he deserved to be bullied because he was Nazi. So bullying a Nazi is OK. I just wonder what other characteristics a person could possess that would make bullying them acceptable.

No one said bullying was acceptable.

What’s being challenged is your silly claim that choosing to not associate with a violent and unstable person somehow constitutes bullying.

 

[johnny karate]

Right wing crank websites like CNN?

But former neighbor Paul Gold told CNN that Zachary Cruz, though more than a year younger, grew up to be bigger and more physically developed.

Eventually, Gold said, Zachary and other kids ostracized and bullied Nikolas.
"They were constantly alienating him and not allowing him to partake in games, like kickball on the street or riding bicycles," Gold said. "Nikolas would constantly go home very angry."​

I think you might have linked to the wrong article.

Your claim was that Emma Gonzalez admitted to bullying Nikolas Cruz.

The article you erroneously linked to makes no mention of Emma Gonzalez, let alone any alleged admission she made.

Please try again.

 

[Lambchops]

So bullying a Nazi is OK. I just wonder what other characteristics a person could possess that would make bullying them acceptable.

First of all, this whole "bullying" thing seems to be far from proven. And are you honestly surprised that a self described bigot is somehow not the most popular kid in school? You seriously don't get why the other kids might not necessarily want to be BFF's with a white supremacist?

As for your question, who said bullying is acceptable?

You're grasping at straws here. It's pretty transparent.

 

[quadraginta]

You're not being serious, are you? This guy was a seriously unpleasant piece of work, and somehow, kids not wanting him around them to be around him is bullying? Do you realise just how desperate that sounds? It's never good when you start blaming the victims.

A minor change, but significant, I think, and also more accurate.

 

[Lambchops]

A minor change, but significant, I think, and also more accurate.

Agreed.

 

[quadraginta]

Kids are usually bullied because something about them makes them different. The reaction of some people here is that Cruz wasn't bullied because he was a Nazi or that he was bullied but he deserved to be bullied because he was Nazi. So bullying a Nazi is OK. I just wonder what other characteristics a person could possess that would make bullying them acceptable.

Cruz wasn't bullied because he wasn't bullied.

Not wanting to be around someone is not bullying. Not by any rational or reasonable understanding of the concept.

 

[cullennz]

Cruz wasn't bullied because he wasn't bullied.

Not wanting to be around someone is not bullying. Not by any rational or reasonable understanding of the concept.

So your saying for example kids shunning/ostracising say the red head isn't bullying.

Interesting