Primitivism Discussion

dudalb said:
If the primitvists want to go back to a 16th centurn level of life, fine, let them; the problem I have is that they want to force the rest of us to join them.
Still amazed by the hatred of flush toilets shown here.........
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Should you be allowed to do anything you want to do, or do you support the idea that societies can limit the actions of some citizens in support of the rights and freedoms or even just desires of others? Because that's the way it generally works. Calling it 'force' is wilfully misleading, regardless of whether you have any evidence of any such intention. Do you? I've personally said I'm happy to go off and do it with like-minded people, as I've done in the past. I suppose it makes the debate more manageable for you if you use strawmen for your targets.
 
Skeptic said:
Ah, but the primitivists never see themselves as one of those (yeeech) peasants. They see themselves as philosopher-kings, artists, rulers, reformers, scientists, gentlemen-farmers, knights in shining armor... anything except the 99% of humanity that was made up of peasants, servants, or slaves, so that the other 1% could live on a level vaguely similar to that the average person today.

Also, they never seem to imagine themselves -- or their children -- getting sick in such a world. Anything from toothaches to infant mortality will magically pass them by in that primitive, wonderful world.
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One my favorite comments about the
"Let's go back to the 15th century " types is they think life before the Industiral Revolution was One Long Renaissaince Faire......
 
Skeptic said:
Ah, but the primitivists never see themselves as one of those (yeeech) peasants. They see themselves as philosopher-kings, artists, rulers, reformers, scientists, gentlemen-farmers, knights in shining armor... anything except the 99% of humanity that was made up of peasants, servants, or slaves, so that the other 1% could live on a level vaguely similar to that the average person today.

Also, they never seem to imagine themselves -- or their children -- getting sick in such a world. Anything from toothaches to infant mortality will magically pass them by in that primitive, wonderful world.
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Gosh, there's straw everywhere round here. Isn't it so much easier to argue with creatures of your imagination than with those actually posting in this thread.
 
EGarrett said:
I scanned through five of them and there is no answer. Stop trying to evade me, because I'm aware you're doing it and I have a very good idea why. All you have to do is give me your justification for your professed "primitivism" that also encourages or allows use of high-speed internet.
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Dude, I am not evading you in the least. You aren't interested in having a discussion, just being antagonistic.

I have said numerous times that I personally have a nuanced view of the situation (that is not by any means set in stone). In fact, I part of the reason for starting the thread was to better examine my own thoughts on the subject. I understand you may be used to arguing with simpletons, but that is not the case here.

I have said at least 4 or 5 times in this thread that I think there are worthwhile applications of technology.

I have also explained more than once, that I am personally not interested in removing myself from society to adopt a truly primitive lifestyle. If a greater percentage of society were interested in pursuing it, I may be.

I think you have mistaken my intent and participation in this thread for that of a person who came here to blab about their own dogma rather than have a discussion amongst like and unlike thinkers.
 
dudalb said:
One my favorite comments about the
"Let's go back to the 15th century " types is they think life before the Industiral Revolution was One Long Renaissaince Faire......
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You'll notice how some of the medieval-set movies and stories tend to paint that period in rosy colours. Less so in the recent years but still, it seems to me that everything in medieval times must've smelled like excrement. I'd rather not go back to that.
 
dudalb said:
One my favorite comments about the
"Let's go back to the 15th century " types is they think life before the Industiral Revolution was One Long Renaissaince Faire......
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I don't see that in this thread. Please put the strawmen away, we are trying to have an open discussion about the matter.
 
Mr. Purple said:
I have said at least 4 or 5 times in this thread that I think there are worthwhile applications of technology.
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Granted, but you can't get to internet-level without all the things that I'm sure you consider "bad" about technology. It's necessary evil. If you want to get rid of it, no internet.
 
Mr. Purple said:
Dude, I am not evading you in the least. You aren't interested in having a discussion, just being antagonistic.

I have said numerous times that I personally have a nuanced view of the situation (that is not by any means set in stone). In fact, I part of the reason for starting the thread was to better examine my own thoughts on the subject. I understand you may be used to arguing with simpletons, but that is not the case here.

I have said at least 4 or 5 times in this thread that I think there are worthwhile applications of technology.

I have also explained more than once, that I am personally not interested in removing myself from society to adopt a truly primitive lifestyle. If a greater percentage of society were interested in pursuing it, I may be.

I think you have mistaken my intent and participation in this thread for that of a person who came here to blab about their own dogma rather than have a discussion amongst like and unlike thinkers.
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Less posting, more doing.
 
Skeptic said:
Ah, but the primitivists never see themselves as one of those (yeeech) peasants. They see themselves as philosopher-kings, artists, rulers, reformers, scientists, gentlemen-farmers, knights in shining armor... anything except the 99% of humanity that was made up of peasants, servants, or slaves, so that the other 1% could live on a level vaguely similar to that the average person today.

Also, they never seem to imagine themselves -- or their children -- getting sick in such a world. Anything from toothaches to infant mortality will magically pass them by in that primitive, wonderful world.
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Strawman. No one (unless I missed something) has said as much in this thread.
I specifically mentioned an appreciation of medicine.

Jesus, can we really not have a rational discussion?
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
Because, in my experience, most hippies who sit around and think "we should get back in tune with nature and live a simpler lifestyle" tend to do it while sitting in Starbucks, drinking their "shade grown" coffee and wirelessly surfing the Internet, instead of actually getting out and doing it. Sort of like an "Earthday" bumper sticker on the back of an SUV.
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Sure that happens. But that does not seem to be the case with all the parties in this thread.
 
Mr. Purple said:
Oh, and feel free to use pejoratives like "tree hugger", "hippie", et al. It will allow those of us interested in a serious, skeptical discussion to simply ignore you.
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HOW DARE YOU, YOU FILTHY SAND MUNCHING LEAF HUGGING FILTHY, FILTHY HIPPY! Okay, now what were we talking about?
 
Mr. Purple said:
True, but some (such as myself) only advocate portions of the concept. I think there are aspects of life both helped and hindered by advancement. I guess this makes me a diet-primitivist / pseudo-primitivist / weak-primitivist.
I do embrace the advances in thought (yes, I do realize that most are a result of technology), medicine (ditto), and communication/art (not as much, but still).
I do not embrace the basic lifestyle, consumerism, and the types of stress that modern life entails.
For me, it is far more nuanced than "technology bad, eat dead carcass good".
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Why by your own admission would you start a discussion on something that you actually aren't? I don't consider that primitivist. I consider that anticonsumerist with a tinge of made up stuff in there (ie. Types of stress???).
 
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Bikewer said:
I expect that living a primitive lifestyle would be a lot easier if we got rid of some billions of people who are clogging up the planet....
Nuclear survivor primitivism, anyone?
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given the amount of fat health challenged folks out there who ouldn't survive the first two months that kinda thing might take care of itself
 
Mr. Purple said:
Jesus, can we really not have a rational discussion?
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I'm having a bit of a hard time with the notion of having a discussion advocating for a lifestyle which is being held on a method of communication which would be impossible if said lifestyle was actually used. It just seems... odd to me. It'd be like holding a discussion saying we ought to abandon air travel while being a long-distance flight.
 
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