One Million Rupees Offer to prove "Homeopathy is Paranormal"

[Zep]

The opinion I have for you and others. I asked a very simple question, so that I could move forward but did not get reasonable reply. I am still here. And offered you one million rupeees with court stamp papers fee. I am not among those who will run away. If you can catch me than the filed is wide open to win the prize.

And yet, despite repeated requests of you, you STILL have not provided a web link to your Million Rupee Challenge application form/page/whatever.

You are making all sorts of derisive remarks that we don't try for your challenge, but then you never let us see it and just hide it away. So who looks the fool now?

 

[Bronze Dog]

The opinion I have for you and others. I asked a very simple question, so that I could move forward but did not get reasonable reply. I am still here. And offered you one million rupeees with court stamp papers fee. I am not among those who will run away. If you can catch me than the filed is wide open to win the prize.

Of course, the whole question about whether or not Homeopathy is paranormal is, in itself, running away from the question of whether or not it works. Retreating into semantics debate is always a safe move, especially if you can do like Ian and claim the dictionary is wrong.

 

[Kumar]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Science/secret/trick of homeopathy/TRS

I have said this before, but it seems worth repeating:
If homoeopathic "healing" is dependent on leftover remedy molecules in the glass, then why do the homoeopaths perform so many potentisations? That would only reduce the chance of bad quality control having a positive benefit. In other words, if the effect were created by actual molecules present in the solutions, why dilute them further? You could also go straight to the "very few molecules left"-stage: take a glass where the mother tincture has been almost cleaned out, fill in new water, and, presto! a new homoeopathic remedy is created!

Kumar's argument also opens up for remedies to be mixed if the first remedy still has leftover molecules in the glass pores when the second is prepared.

You can understand it, if you paint a bottle inside and want to take out individual molecules slowly slowly in several concentrations. Why we do rubbing when we want to get rid of any colour, can we remove it just by washing? Potentisation & mixing carriers can be for the reason to keep molecules seprated from each other or to maintain their individuality. One herb called heena, if pasted on hands, hands become orange red & this colour goes in about one month? HoW? Mortar & pestles are quite porus, what about triturated potencies as TRs?

First we have to fid out if some molecules can stick/penetrate/painted on glass of bottles?

 

[steenkh]

And yet, despite repeated requests of you, you STILL have not provided a web link to your Million Rupee Challenge application form/page/whatever.

I suppose you can get a copy of the rules and the application form if you come personally to the offices of World Homeopathic Computer Club in Pakistan. Open Tuesdays around 3 o'clock.

The test protocol will show that you will have to prove clinically that homoeopathic remedies are paranormal when they work, and you have to convince a board of 20 homoeopathic professors of 30 years' experience that it is so under all circumstances and without any doubt.

 

[Ashles]

The opinion I have for you and others. I asked a very simple question, so that I could move forward but did not get reasonable reply. I am still here. And offered you one million rupeees with court stamp papers fee. I am not among those who will run away. If you can catch me than the filed is wide open to win the prize.

Please could you explain homeopathy in this other thread that I have started exclusivly for you to do so.

You have repeatedly said you will explain homeopathy and we are interested to hear your explanation so surely that thread exclusively devoted to that purpose would be the best way, yes?

 

[Rolfe]

Why does that strange man keep ignoring me?

Originally posted by Dr. MAS
Dr. MAS: I only claim, we can heal patients (curable or incurable) by grace of Allah (God) and with the help of homeopathic medicines as a source.

Dr. Mas, do you believe that homoeopathy will only work "by the grace of Allah (God)"? To clarify, do you believe that divine intervention takes place every time a homoeopathic remedy works?

Rolfe.

 

[Stitch]

Dr. Mas, do you believe that homoeopathy will only work "by the grace of Allah (God)"? To clarify, do you believe that divine intervention takes place every time a homoeopathic remedy works?

Rolfe.

Well it's one of the more plausible explanations

 

[Rolfe]

Well it's one of the more plausible explanations

It's also Dr. Mas's own explanation, and it's also unarguably a paranormal explanation.

Maybe he should just keep the million rupees, he's that one who posted the proof!

Rolfe.

 

[Stitch]

It's also Dr. Mas's own explanation, and it's also unarguably a paranormal explanation.

Maybe he should just keep the million rupees, he's that one who posted the proof!

Rolfe.

Why do I suspect you will be told by Dr. MAS that god is not paranormal either?

 

[Ashles]

So, to recap:

Option 1:
If Dr MAS is refering to whether homeopathy works by paranormal means then no it doesn't, because it doesn't work in double-blind placebo controlled trials. It works exactly as scientifically expected.
Result: Dr Mas keeps his money by admission that homeopathy doesn't work.

Option 2:
If we pretend that it has shown an effect then no homeopath or scientist has come up with a way to explain it.
Result: Dr Mas pays the million rupees.

Option 3:
Or is it that the theory of homeopathy is paranormal? If so, as it currently stands, every reference to homeopathy (including those on homeopathy sites) states clearly that it doesn't work by any known scientific method.
As this is the dictionary definition of 'paranormal' it is obviously and clearly paranormal.
Result: Dr Mas pays the Million rupees.

Option 4:
Or Dr Mas claims it is a combination of science and God/Allah?
Since God/Allah are clearly paranormal then homeopathy is paranormal.
Result: Dr Mas Pays the Million Rupees.

Option 5:
Or homeopathy works and has an incredibly advanced scientific explanation.
2 questions -
1. Why doesn't it appear to work in tests?
2. Where can we read Dr Mas' groundbreaking research
Result: Research centres pay Dr Mas millions of dollars

Option 6:
Dr Mas is lying about the effectiveness of homeopathy or is genuinely deluded as to its efficacy. He will ignore all testing and evidence that demonstrates that homeopathy does not work. He will continue to claim full understanding of homeopathy, yet never explain it in detail. He will reject all explanations of why homeopathy is paranormal. He may not actually even have One Million Rupees prize money.
Result: Continuous unfounded claims about the effectiveness of homeopathy without any sort of detail that explains how it might work, whilst ignoring any uncomfortable or awkward scientific questions. Much as we are currently witnessing in fact.

Have I missed any out?

 

[steenkh]

Option 6:
Result: Continuous unfounded claims about the effectiveness of homeopathy without any sort of detail that explains how it might work, whilst ignoring any uncomfortable or awkward scientific questions. Much as we are currently witnessing in fact.

I am rather sure this is one he will go for!

 

[Ashles]

Re: Press Confernce Report

The managing director of www.hhomeopharma.com Dr. Hafiz Matie ullah announced to sponsor the prize money in support of World Homeopathic Computer Club's offer to prove "Homeopathy is paranormal in nature and scientific laws / principles cannot apply over homeopathy".

Has anyone visited that site?

Are there not laws about making unfounded claims? A 100% success rate for curing foot and mouth disease?

And I notice the links to 'trials' is mysteriously not working.

I'm guessing Pakistan is much less stringent on false advertising claims.

One guy on that site (a UK Homeopath) claims:

I take this opportunity to introduce Homeopathic Medicine, which is already proved 100 % curative by the Faisalabad Agriculture University Pakistan on more then 100 cattle. All cattles got cured gently and smoothly with in a week or two without side effect. In most of the cases one injection is sufficient to cure. This medcine is excellent in its efficacy and action. I hope this will prove great break through in the field of animal health and will safe million of pounds beside cows and sheep as well.

Well I was under the impression that if an animal caught FMD it had to be destroyed.
Why aren't we using this amazing 100% efficient cure?

Again I'd like to read the trial information, but I clicked on the link and... oh you know the rest of the story...

It is recommended by Dr. Ghazi Anwar, Asssitant Director Livestock and Dairy Development Gujrat, Government of the Punjab (Pakistan)

Can't find any info on him either.

 

[Rolfe]

Re: Re: Press Confernce Report

Well I was under the impression that if an animal caught FMD it had to be destroyed.
Why aren't we using this amazing 100% efficient cure?

I don't want to derail, but I'll just add a bit of information.

Policy on how to handle FMD varies from country to country. The disease is so feared because it is quite extraordinarily infectious, and because it has a devastating effect on animals kept in large-scale husbandry systems. Because Britain is an island, a policy of keeping the country FMD-free by import restrictions and implementing a slaughter policy if it does get in has been the procedure. (Though whether this will hold in future given the débâcle that was 2001 is yet to be seen - vaccination may figure more in future policy.) A number of other countries also hold to this policy.

Other countries, including mainland Europe up to the 1980s, have preferred a vaccination strategy, which given that the FMD vaccines aren't very good and virulent virus has been known to escape from vaccine plants, can be a two-edged sword.

Many third-world countries simply tolerate the condition. It is a severe illness and can be disabling, but with good individual nursing most affected animals will in fact recover. With farming systems where each individual farmer may have only a handful of cattle to care for, this is in fact quite feasible. However, it is a severe block to the development of large-scale livestock farming.

Guess what, in Pakistan I believe they tolerate FMD, and nurse animals through it. And the mostly survive. With or without magic water injections.

Rolfe.

 

[Ashles]

I think I might start another thread about that whole website a bit later on.

Thanks Rolfe.

 

[Vikram]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Science/secret/trick of homeopathy/TRS

You can understand it, if you paint a bottle inside and want to take out individual molecules slowly slowly in several concentrations. Why we do rubbing when we want to get rid of any colour, can we remove it just by washing? Potentisation & mixing carriers can be for the reason to keep molecules seprated from each other or to maintain their individuality. One herb called heena, if pasted on hands, hands become orange red & this colour goes in about one month? HoW? Mortar & pestles are quite porus, what about triturated potencies as TRs?

First we have to fid out if some molecules can stick/penetrate/painted on glass of bottles?

 

[patchbunny]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Science/secret/trick of homeopathy/TRS

You can understand it, if you paint a bottle inside and want to take out individual molecules slowly slowly in several concentrations. Why we do rubbing when we want to get rid of any colour, can we remove it just by washing? Potentisation & mixing carriers can be for the reason to keep molecules seprated from each other or to maintain their individuality. One herb called heena, if pasted on hands, hands become orange red & this colour goes in about one month? HoW? Mortar & pestles are quite porus, what about triturated potencies as TRs?

Tell ya what, Kumar, why don't you mix a 30C solution of heena, wash your body in it, and let us know how orange you get.

When you understand why you don't turn orange, you will understand what everyone has been trying to pound into your head for oh-so long.

--Patch

 

[Kumar]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Science/secret/trick of homeopathy/TRS

Tell ya what, Kumar, why don't you mix a 30C solution of heena, wash your body in it, and let us know how orange you get.

When you understand why you don't turn orange, you will understand what everyone has been trying to pound into your head for oh-so long.

--Patch

Gross/crude substance visual effects & their individual molecule effects can be different. Therefore, homeopathic effects are less visual, apperantly. Why don't you measure molecular presence in remedies & glass of boteles pestle & mortar?

 

[MRC_Hans]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Science/secret/trick of homeopathy/TRS

Gross/crude substance visual effects & their individual molecule effects can be different. Therefore, homeopathic effects are less visual, apperantly.

Much less visual, Kumar, much less .

Why don't you measure molecular presence in remedies & glass of boteles pestle & mortar?

Why should we?

Hans

 

[Kumar]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Science/secret/trick of homeopathy/TRS

Much less visual, Kumar, much less .

Still may not be beyond your vision.

Why don't you measure molecular presence in remedies & glass of boteles pestle & mortar?

Why should we?

It means you are not interested but just contradicting.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Science/secret/trick of homeopathy/TRS

Much less visual, Kumar, much less .

Still may not be beyond your vision.

Why don't you measure molecular presence in remedies & glass of boteles pestle & mortar?

Why should we?

It means you are not interested but just contradicting.

Oh, I'm interested ...... in facts. I'm not interested in unfounded speculations.

I'm not interested in what you feel or believe may happen. You have shown repeatedly and consistently that you have no idea of physics.

Just as an example, I have, some time ago, explained why we cannot see molecules. Yet you, above, persist in assuming that we can see them. Not only you haven't got any education, but you refuse to get educated.


Hans