Noah's Ark

[X]

1) Ba'al was a fertility god. Worship of him included, among other fertility rites, ritual sex as a celebtration of life. Might this be the "whoredom" referred to in Numbers, Edge?


2) You mentioned herod's slaughter. Funny how there is absolutely no historical evidence for this, in either Roman or Jewish records. It occurs only in the Gospel of matthew. So did it happen and somehow get ignored by the likes of Josephus, who recored as many of Herod's transgretions as he could find? Or did it not occur at all, and the Bible is therefore fallible, Edge? If it didn't occur, might not some of the more fantastical stories be just that: stories? Like the flood? It would save you having to justify a genocide....

 

[joobz]

This exchange is quite unsettling. If there was ever an example needed of how religion can be dangerous, edge has provided it. It's amazing how easily one is willing to gloss over atrocity for the sake of glorifying thier god.

Edge, please take a moment to think before responding. Realize that your desire to defend god and your faith has forced you into a position of illogical horror. I do not honestly believe you mean to say the things you do, so perhaps it is best if you will just admit that there are aspects of your faith you cannot explain instead of trying to defend it all.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

This exchange is quite unsettling. If there was ever an example needed of how religion can be dangerous, edge has provided it. It's amazing how easily one is willing to gloss over atrocity for the sake of glorifying thier god.

Richard Dawkins refers to a similar example in his book The God Delusion. A group of researchers split a group of Israeli schoolchildren in two, and asked one group to either brand the massacre of Jericho "favorable" or "not favorable", and give reasons for their answers. Most answered "favorable", and gave reasons such as that the Jericho population was of a different religion, threatened the survival of the Master Race, sorry, Chosen People of the Isrealites, etc. Many of the kids gave religious reasons for why they supported the massacre.

The researchers also made up a story about a "general Lin", who slaughtered a minority group in Ancient China. I presume they gave the story about the same characteristics as the Jericho myth. The control group of children responded overwhelmingly negatively to "general Lin's" slaughter.

The interesting thing is that the control group's kids, too, supported their view with their religion. Just goes to show how strange an idea it is to use the Bible as moral compass, when you can get it to point in any direction you want. It also shows how incredibly dangerous it can be to tell kids that killing for your God is right. How many of these kids could theoretically end up voting for a candidate solely because they believed him to be "chosen by God"?

 

[articulett]

I think this thread shows exactly how religious can, indeed, be very dangerous. If faith trumps facts... and is the KEY to how you'll spend ETERNITY... then what wouldn't you do and/or what couldn't you justify in order to win paradise?

A Christian zealot is as scary as a Scientology zealot as a Muslim zealot... we are all at the mercy of what their invisible friends are telling them.

Edge highlights that Steven Weinberg quote "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil-that takes religion."

 

[Frozenwolf150]

Do you think that everything your god does is good and must be praised? Do you picture a dead Canaanite child, much like the one in the image, and say "praise be to God"?

Here's a better question. Do believers picture that dead child to be their own, or even themselves, should God deem them as a group to be evil and worth of extermination, and say, "Praise be to God"? Since this thread is about the Noahic flood, would believers feel the same way if they were the ones who missed the boat and saw a 40 foot wall of water rushing towards them and their homes?

Normally those would be rhetorical questions, but by the logic of believers, who am I to judge God as immoral for visiting atrocities on whomever he deems deserving?

 

[Autolite]

Absolutely incomprehensible. That anyone with an IQ above, or even remotely close to room temperature, could use the 'holey' book as a reference to fact, when talking about such things as noah's ark. I find it beyond belief that simple common sense doesn't take over when reading this book.

Incomprehensible? Perhaps. The thing to consider is that people's actions and beliefs are governed by rational thought and/or emotion. Sometimes rational thought, or intelligence, influences a persons behavior but other times emotion often wins out. This is why we have "smart people who believe stupid things". Religion fills an emotional need.

Think how often we find otherwise intelligent people who will enter into a horrifically bad relationship/marriage or make an awful financial decision. These are choices based on emotion, not logic. It seems that there is a wide variance between how much individuals are influenced by logic or by emotion. Something that might be better explained by a psychologist.

Whatever the case. Religion will always exist as long as humans are capable of emotion...

 

[articulett]

Whatever the case. Religion will always exist as long as humans are capable of emotion...

Superstition and magical thinking will always exist... but I hope that one day it is primarily a providence of the young... it's something you outgrow or keep private.

I don't think religions will always exist. (And you can't prove me wrong-- so, according to theist logic, I must be right.)

 

[tsig]

Only this we are sure of, that God has created of one blood all nations of men; they are all descended from one Adam, one Noah. Have we not all one father? Has not one God created us?
1Ch 1:28-54


I will find what they worshiped and link it. But here lets see.






And what are we doing in the Middle East?



From Here: http://www.cresourcei.org/baal.html



What’s in the bible:
The Israelites where not immune from Gods wrath either:

· Baal worship is not a bygone phenomenon. It is widespread in these last days. Baal worship is giving free-reign to the carnal nature. It expresses itself in gluttony, drunkenness and sinful sexual acts.
· The Elijah Message calls people back to obedience of the commandments of Yahweh the Almighty God of Israel


Articulate says:


You need to understand the differences since you like to lump all of the religions in one category which is the most illogical thing to do, so don’t lie we are talking about the Christian Bible.

Jesus said; "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believeth on him who sent me, has everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24

So Articulates how are these two remotely the same?



Link:
http://prorege-forum.com/forum_entry.php?id=5392



And He will always protect Israel from any attempts to annihilate her.
This is true even today.

I got it straight from god you are wrong

 

[GT/CS]

Edge, do you know that Christians, Jews, and Muslims all believe in the same god? The only thing they differ on is which of God's messengers was telling the truth.

Your god really needs to get a better plan, or better messengers.

 

[tsig]

Safe-Keeper, Foster Zygote.

My relatives have had genocides happen to them in W.W.2 so don't give me any of your crap.

I don't condone the killing of any one and will still walk with God.



Have you read what their hopes were?
These were the equivalent of satin worshippers killing children and using their own as sacrificial candles.and anyone elses child that they could get.


The Hebrews lived with them and visa-versa.
How do you miss that when that's what they did, they lived among them and when in a prior foreign land as slaves, they (some of the Hebrews) worshiped those same Gods.?
Then were punished the same way?



Judges 10: 6: And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim, and Ashtaroth, and the gods of Syria, and the gods of Zidon, and the gods of Moab, and the gods of the children of Ammon, and the gods of the Philistines, and forsook the LORD, and served not him.

Numbers 25: 1: And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab. 2: And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods. 3: And Israel joined himself unto Baal-peor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel.

They weren’t immune,





Seems to me that the liberals are doing the same thing today and allowing it to happen, and your picture is same thing that was happening then and now and will continue, for a time.
Not my doing and I still can’t judge the creator of the universe on his call.

The bottom line is that God kept his promise to Israel and no man or nation was to change those future events that where already in place.

Jesus when asked about the end times replied; it will be the same then as it was in Noah’s days.

This is being played out even now,(look around), and the other promise is that no nation will take their land is also prophesy. This we may witness soon and the results there after.



The last one is the most important and was played out all the way through Christ’s life. Herod comes to mind and kills his own set of people and children.




32 Then Samuel said, "Bring me Agag king of the Amalekites."
Agag came to him confidently, [c] thinking, "Surely the bitterness of death is past."
33 But Samuel said,
"As your sword has made women childless,
so will your mother be childless among women."
And Samuel put Agag to death before the LORD at Gilgal.
Whose children? So who was attacking whom first and what were they promoting, “the Amalekites”?
Human sacrifice, sacrifice children by burning them to death, taking other peoples children when plundering.
Killing others children.
So what you say the Hebrew were did to the Amalekites they were doing it to children of the Hebrews along with their own child sacrifices to Baal..

Some of these pepole were assimilated into the Hebrew culture and redeemed themselves, repented. Some Hebrews did the same and assimilated in the other cultures.
So they where never totally wipe out.

·


25 Yet if you persist in doing evil, both you and your king will be swept away.



Before the battle you are talking about, this battle with the Philistine.



22 So on the day of the battle not a soldier with Saul and Jonathan had a sword or spear in his hand; only Saul and his son Jonathan had them.

So Saul’s son goes out to do battle on his own.
6 Jonathan said to his young armor-bearer, "Come, let's go over to the outpost of those uncircumcised fellows. Perhaps the LORD will act in our behalf. Nothing can hinder the LORD from saving, whether by many or by few."
7 "Do all that you have in mind," his armor-bearer said. "Go ahead; I am with you, heart and soul."
8 Jonathan said, "Come, then; we will cross over toward the men and let them see us. 9 If they say to us, 'Wait there until we come to you,' we will stay where we are and not go up to them. 10 But if they say, 'Come up to us,' we will climb up, because that will be our sign that the LORD has given them into our hands."
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=9&chapter=14&version=31

11 So both of them showed themselves to the Philistine outpost. "Look!" said the Philistines. "The Hebrews are crawling out of the holes they were hiding in." 12 The men of the outpost shouted to Jonathan and his armor-bearer, "Come up to us and we'll teach you a lesson."
So Jonathan said to his armor-bearer, "Climb up after me; the LORD has given them into the hand of Israel."
Israel Routs the Philistines
15 Then panic struck the whole army—those in the camp and field, and those in the outposts and raiding parties—and the ground shook. It was a panic sent by God.
16 Saul's lookouts at Gibeah in Benjamin saw the army melting away in all directions. 17 Then Saul said to the men who were with him, "Muster the forces and see who has left us." When they did, it was Jonathan and his armor-bearer who were not there.
13 Jonathan climbed up, using his hands and feet, with his armor-bearer right behind him. The Philistines fell before Jonathan, and his armor-bearer followed and killed behind him. 14 In that first attack Jonathan and his armor-bearer killed some twenty men in an area of about half an acre. [a]
20 Then Saul and all his men assembled and went to the battle. They found the Philistines in total confusion, striking each other with their swords. 21 Those Hebrews who had previously been with the Philistines and had gone up with them to their camp went over to the Israelites who were with Saul and Jonathan.

46 Then Saul stopped pursuing the Philistines, and they withdrew to their own land.
47 After Saul had assumed rule over Israel, he fought against their enemies on every side: Moab, the Ammonites, Edom, the kings [h] of Zobah, and the Philistines. Wherever he turned, he inflicted punishment on them. 48 He fought valiantly and defeated the Amalekites, delivering Israel from the hands of those who had plundered them .

So you have a problem with God protecting the bloodline of Christ the redeemer?


Genocid is still going on, your picture proves that, the war in the Middle East proves that, the famine in the world is worst than ever.
War is a bad thing and it affects every one.


But like you say you would kill for your son.

I don't believe a word you say.

 

[Autolite]

I don't think religions will always exist.

Perhaps I lack imagination but I am unable to envision the circumstances under which religion could ever be completely eradicated. Science, education, sophistication whatever, man has developed to the point where religion should have disappeared from many of our cultures a long time ago.

Religion satisfies emotional needs and provides a seemingly socially acceptable mechanism which one might employ should they choose to ignore reality. It gives people answers to questions that science is yet unable to answer or perhaps more appealing answers. Reality is unpleasant in many respects. Religion is a form of escapism. Religion will never not be...

 

[Kopji]

"He betook himself to slay the women and the children, and thought he did not act therein either barbarously or inhumanly; first, because they were enemies whom he thus treated, and, in the next place, because it was done by the command of God, whom it was dangerous not to obey" (Flavius Josephus, Antiquites Judicae, Book VI, Chapter 7).

http://www.answers.com/topic/amalekite

Found a nice commentary from Josephus.

 

[X]

Found a nice commentary from Josephus.

Which refers to Saul's war against the Amalekites, not Herod's slaughter of the innocents.

 

[edge]

And another point: Pardon me, but it seems to me that if you have an army large enough to exterminate a people, it's not that people that poses a threat to you - it's rather the other way around. If a huge senior football player in a High School beats up a tiny unarmed freshman kid, he can't claim in hindsight that it was in "self-defence".

Talk about deceitful.

Your little scenario is backwards, the freshman is the Hebrews and it isn’t just one huge football player it was more like five or six.
They have swords and spears; they have thousands of chariots and thousands of Calvary, all you have is a farm utensils.

How were they out numbered?

15 Then Samuel left Gilgal [f] and went up to Gibeah in Benjamin, and Saul counted the men who were with him. They numbered about six hundred.

Raiding parties went out from the Philistine camp in three detachments

Now a detachment of Philistines had gone out to the pass at Micmash.

5 The Philistines assembled to fight Israel, with three thousand [d] chariots, six thousand charioteers, and soldiers as numerous as the sand on the seashore. They went up and camped at Micmash, east of Beth Aven. 6 When the men of Israel saw that their situation was critical and that their army was hard pressed, they hid in caves and thickets, among the rocks, and in pits and cisterns.

this battle with the Philistine.



22 So on the day of the battle not a soldier with Saul and Jonathan had a sword or spear in his hand; only Saul and his son Jonathan had them.

So Saul’s son goes out to do battle on his own.

Israel Routs the Philistines ;

15 Then panic struck the whole army—those in the camp and field, and those in the outposts and raiding parties—and the ground shook. It was a panic sent by God.
16 Saul's lookouts at Gibeah in Benjamin saw the army melting away in all directions.[‘b]


They found the Philistines in total confusion, striking each other with their swords. 21 Those Hebrews who had previously been with the Philistines and had gone up with them to their camp went over to the Israelites who were with Saul and Jonathan.

46 Then Saul stopped pursuing the Philistines, and they withdrew to their own land.

After Saul had assumed rule over Israel, he fought against their enemies on every side: Moab, the Ammonites, Edom, the kings [h] of Zobah, and the Philistines. Wherever he turned, he inflicted punishment on them. 48 He fought valiantly and defeated the Amalekites, delivering Israel from the hands of those who had plundered them .

It says something about us that we are more concerned with God's behavior than with our own—that we are judging him rather than worrying about him judging us.

The whole army that was sent to plunder the Hebrews is sent running by god and two men.
God causes the ground to shake and they then run off and there are the ones that start killing each other as the two Jonathan and his armor bearer are coming towards them killing all that stand in their way
You would think with these kinds of demonstrations that they would stop invading but the next battle is with the Amalekites these people where the most wicked.
They are killed in a valley every one of them but this attack is taken to the Hebrews and not on the Amalekites land they are the ones attacking.

1) Ba'al was a fertility god. Worship of him included, among other fertility rites, ritual sex as a celebration of life. Might this be the "whoredom" referred to in Numbers, Edge?
Post the refrence.
In Samuel is where I am reading.


2) You mentioned herod's slaughter. Funny how there is absolutely no historical evidence for this, in either Roman or Jewish records. It occurs only in the Gospel of matthew. So did it happen and somehow get ignored by the likes of Josephus, who recored as many of Herod's transgretions as he could find? Or did it not occur at all, and the Bible is therefore fallible, Edge? If it didn't occur, might not some of the more fantastical stories be just that: stories? Like the flood? It would save you having to justify a genocide....

But there is a Christian record and why is it, that it doesn’t count as historical, because some body else didn’t record it?
Leaders stifle stuff all the time eventually they are brought to light later, even for presidents.


I like how you leave out the parts that are real bad like; These were the equivalent of Satan worshippers killing children and using their own as sacrificial candles, and anyone else’s child that they could get.
Soddimites?

So according to the Hebrew scholars this one turned Christian, let see who Baal was.

Baalhazor," Lord of the fortresses" provides a connection between Baal and the god of the Antichrist. Baal was lord of war and of the sky, fertility. Many titles were given to Baal by adding endings to his name. Some examples found in scripture are Baalbamoth= Lord of the high places, Baalzebub= Lord of those who fly, or, flit. Zebub is a Hebrew verb which means to flit from place to place.
Baal is identified as Satan by Jesus himself, Matt.10:25 Mark. 3:22 Luke 11:15.
Luke 11: 15
15But some of them said, “By Beelzebub,[a] the prince of demons, he is driving out demons.”
Mark3:22
22And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebub[a]! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.”
Matt.10:25
25It is enough for the student to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub,[a] how much more the members of his household!
He goes on to answer them.

17Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them: "Any kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and a house divided against itself will fall. 18If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? I say this because you claim that I drive out demons by Beelzebub. 19Now if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your followers drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 20But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come to you.

The Antichrist will honor Satan, called Baal, Lord of Fortresses, Lord of the High Places , Lord of those who quickly fly (in the high places), Prince of the Power of the Air

Incredibly, the Bible explains where Satan currently resides, and connects him with forces in the atmosphere. . . Paul says we wrestle not with flesh and blood, but with principalities and powers, with wicked spirits in high places, literally, “in the heavens” “in the aerial regions” Eph.6:12. Hence Satan is called “the prince of the Power of the air” “the prince of the aerial host” Eph.2:2. The confederation of rebel angels is seated in the atmospheric heaven in the spaces above and around our world. This fundamental of scripture contradicts many traditional concepts of “hell” as the domain of the devil and his minions . King David recognized this fully when he wrote:
For who in the sky (the atmosphere),
shall be ranked with Jehovah,
who among the sons of the mighty
is like Jehovah? Psalm 89:6

While the New Testament uses the Greek word “demon” to refer to these “sons of the mighty”, the Old Testament uses revealing descriptive names. Words which describe these beings, such as b’nai Elohim, “sons of God”, Zophim, “the watchers”, and Malakh, “messengers”, (translated angel in English), are used for the “aerial host” often regardless of alignment. New Testament demons were understandably associated with evil, since originally the Greek term diamon meant “any deity”, and the Bible consistently portrays only one God. There are three main terms for demons in the New Testament: daimonion (demon; 60 times, 50 in the Gospels); pneuma (spirit; some 52 times) usually with a qualifying adjective such as akatharton (unclean; 21 times) or poneron (evil; 8 times); and angelos (7 times of demonic agencies). Daimon (demon), the term commonly used in classical Greek, appears only once (Mark 8:31) ( Baker’s Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology – Walter A. Elwell (Ed))

Romans 1:24 Therefore God has given them up in the lustful desires of their heart to uncleanness…they who exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator

Again, in World War II, should the Allies have killed every single resident of Germany to "protect the bloodline of Christ", since the Germans were trying to wipe out the Jews?

That’s a ridicules scenario since Christ’s mission has been fulfilled.
You can’t protect some thing from happening that has already happened.
The Germans where pissed off that the Jews had a hand at having Christ crucified.
What they didn’t understand was it was Gods plan anyway, so it had to be.
The whole message was first received and spread by the Jews.
Not by the Germans.
I wonder why they weren’t angry with the Italians since they actually did it?
Not all the Jews were bad same with the Italians and the Germans.
It is the people in power that abuse their authority.
The only true authority is God and that would interfere with their plans to be what ever they were or wanted, Chancellor, king, or president of a giant oil firm or president of a country.

All that ramble was leading up to this one point so let's skip a bit.
You are now fixing on the apologetic that God had to slaughter women and children was necessary to protect the savior's bloodline which was the hope of humankind's future. Honestly Edge, this is one of the sickest things I've ever read. I hate to Godwin threads, but as we are discussing genocide I feel it is appropriate. Hitler claimed that the unpleasant business of exterminating the Jews was necessary to protect the Arian bloodline which was the hope of humankind's future.

What your saying is that God isn’t suppose to have final and unequivocal judgment on us and then you equate him to Hitler who in reality was anti Christian.
Or an antichrist himself.
Back at you, that’s the sickest thing I have read.

So lets do a scenario that makes sense;

Your forty feet away and a suicide bomber with a sword is about to lop off your sons head, he is the same age as your child the sword is the immediate threat but the bomb is a future threat and will take out many more people near the vicinity in the future.
You are near a loaded crossbow or gun ready TO FIRE.
Do you save your son and change the future? Do you kill the kid with the sword and bomb?
Does god have the right to do the same not only his son but also many, many others?
His promise to the Hebrew nation wasn’t going to be broken especially by Satan worshipers.
So you think that God who omnipotent can’t look into the future and decide what is necessary to in order to do what is necessary to carry out his promise to us all.

Even after those two battles here come the Philistines again you would think they would have learned by now.

David and Goliath
1 Now the Philistines gathered their forces for war and assembled at Socoh in Judah. They pitched camp at Ephes Dammim, between Socoh and Azekah. 2 Saul and the Israelites assembled and camped in the Valley of Elah and drew up their battle line to meet the Philistines. 3 The Philistines occupied one hill and the Israelites another, with the valley between them.

There are two sides in the battle there are the ones in the right and there are the those that are wrong.

You would think that after turning their swords on one another and earthquakes accompanied by only two Hebrews who are taking out anyone that’s left standing to fight them, they would figure it out.
They run back to their lands for a while and then come back with a giant after what happens to the Amalikites.
But not till after this occurrence the war/attack a couple of years before by the Amalekites, who get annihilated, but Saul disobeys and lets the king of the Amalektes live and the soldiers take the best from their land instead of obeying Gods’ orders to take nothing.
So if they plundered nothing really suggests that all where killed, after all the philistines ran away for a while.


Then the Philistines come back for a one on one fight? After witnessing two Hebrews kick their arses against thousands in a previous battle, backed up by What the Hebrews proclaim to be intervention of God along with the ark in previous displays.

Go figure: at this point if I was a Philistine I would change my beliefs, kind of reminds me of you all, you can’t change your line of thought.
Still can’t see it and if you deny you will stand before God and be Judged, so will I.
Your denial won’t change what is fact.
The lesson is God is the final judge.


26"So do not be afraid of them. There is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 27What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. 28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29Are not two sparrows sold for a penny[d]? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. 30And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.
32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. 33But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

You may as well argue that the final judgment is genocide too when all evil is put down forever.

 

[Madalch]

Talk about deceitful.

Your little scenario is backwards, the freshman is the Hebrews and it isn’t just one huge football player it was more like five or six.
They have swords and spears; they have thousands of chariots and thousands of Calvary, all you have is a farm utensils.

At least according to the Hebrews. Do you think they would admit it if they attacked a smaller force and crushed them easily? Since the dead aren't going to contradict them, I'm sure they will try to make themselves look better by exxagerating the odds against them.

But there is a Christian record and why is it, that it doesn’t count as historical, because some body else didn’t record it?
Leaders stifle stuff all the time eventually they are brought to light later, even for presidents.

Lack of corroberating evidence. The same reason I don't believe the guy who says, "You all saw it! The orphanage attacked me!!"

I like how you leave out the parts that are real bad like; These were the equivalent of Satan worshippers killing children and using their own as sacrificial candles, and anyone else’s child that they could get.

Again, according to the Hebrews. Just like some people accused the Jews of drinking the blood of Christian infants.

But yes, sacrificing one's children to a "god" is a hideous thing. Just ask Abraham.

The lesion is God is the final judge.

MY NAME IS LESION!!!

 

[X]

Post the refrence.
In Samuel is where I am reading.

My reference is Karen Armstrong's "A History of God".
However, since I can't post a book, please regard the following links as references.
Wikipedia article on Baal
Stewarton Bible School sermon notes (has an evangelical bias, so be careful taking it literally)
Encyclopedia Mythica article onBaal
Britannica.com article on Baal
Encyclopedia.com article on Baal
Bible-History.com section on Baal
A few of the more readable entries on the first page of a Google search for "Baal fertility god".
Seriously, Edge, it's your religion. Shouldn't it interest you to learn all you can abbout its history?

But there is a Christian record and why is it, that it doesn’t count as historical, because some body else didn’t record it?
Leaders stifle stuff all the time eventually they are brought to light later, even for presidents.

And now where back to the old claim of the Bible being infallible.
The Bible is not infallible, and is known to have had many passages added to or altered. It even disagrees with itself in many places. Not only that, but the gospels were written long after when Jesus' death is supposed to have taken place. About a full generation after.
So it makes sense to seek corroborating testimonies.
Since none can be found outside of one book in the Bible, it stands to reason that the accounts are not hisotorical, btut hagiographical. That is, they are part of a diefication process rather than a true accounting of history.

 

[articulett]

MY NAME IS LESION!!!

This thread is giving my brain a lesion.

Your questions and responses are driving Edge further and further to the edge of sanity you know... He might "fall off"... whatever that means.

 

[PBTree]

The whole army that was sent to plunder the Hebrews is sent running by god and two men.


Then the Philistines come back for a one on one fight? After witnessing two Hebrews kick their arses against thousands in a previous battle, backed up by What the Hebrews proclaim to be intervention of God along with the ark in previous displays.

I am assuming they would be John Rambostein and Bruce Willisberg.

I can just see Rambostein screaming after the philistines, "I'm comingst to get thou".

Unbeeeeelievable

 

[Madalch]

Your questions and responses are driving Edge further and further to the edge of sanity you know... He might "fall off"... whatever that means.

Great!! He might start making sense!

 

[joobz]

Talk about deceitful.
[snip]
The Germans where pissed off that the Jews had a hand at having Christ crucified.

You're silly.