Noah's Ark

Wow, either these folks are trolls playing out the YEC caricature for kicks, or they are just flat out bizarre. I, personally, could not live a normal life and hold down a job with this kind of baggage for beliefs. It's frankly very depressing, disturbing stuff, and I'm not a newbie here.
"The point is to reject" what the bible says, someone states. What kind of a mindset produces this logic? The point is to reject nonsense in my view. Someone had to have beaten these ideas of a mistaken world view into a person with threats of death, I should think. It boggles the mind how this can persist in intelligent people. Who cares if it is written in some ancient book? This is clearly a fable to any sane person. An adult has to figure out what is fantasy in order to survive, most kids do this pretty handily.
Arguing this is like the "dancing angels on the head of a pin" argument. It is a total waste of time. End of rant.
 
That is why religion is child abuse. It makes a brain fester in faith when it can grow in reason. It's wrong to do this to people. To it's like watching someone on a really bad trip you know they are unlikely to ever come out of.
 
edge said:
The place I'm talking about is still there even in your map. Still there.
You have to go further back, maybe to have it under water.
The further you go back the more there should be other layers on top.
It has been under water because Serpentine is high on the mountains here but that was before the mountains got pushed up and by now there would be no signs of it if the sand waves where that high up on the mountains and I haven’t seen any past 2500 foot elevations.
The Valleys I describe are encircled by mountains.
And yes the sand is all of uniform consistency.
If my video is clear enough you can see that it is on the top of the ground.
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I hope you're aware that by agreeing with those maps, and even suggesting that one looks even futher back in time, it misses the date of Noah's flood by several hundred million years. :rolleyes:

You are wrong about all deposits being jumbled may haps in certain instances but experimentation prove that the biggest and heaviest things settle first then the light materials.
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In gradual sedimentation, such as what we see in bodies of water, not in a large scale flood that appears and recedes just as rapidly. Flood waters mix everything together and deposit it all at once. Go get a bucket of dirt, add water, slosh it around, and dump it on your head. You won't end up with sedimented layers, you'll end up with gravel, mud, and sand all mixed together in your hair.

You mean you don’t know what they are for in the physiological sense for the whale?
They can’t mate with out it.
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Yes, I know that. But previously you said this:

Ask a doctor in the medical field what these structures are for, like tail bones; and as far as whales they are not leg bones how stupid.
Here’s a picture of a fossil whale that looks the same in prehistoric times and the bones serve the same function then as they do now and the reason is similar to why humans have tail bones.
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Implying that the function of the bones in whales was similar to the reason why humans have tail bones. But the structures are not even analogous. Also, there have been fossils found of whales with hind legs.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/05/060523092737.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilosaurus (Note: NOT a reptile, but a cetacean.)

Safe-Keeper said:
Where's that parody tract that debunks the "Aryan YEC schooling Jewish evolutionist teacher" tract?
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You need only ask. :D
http://www.facts4u.com/OffSite_Stored_Pages/wyd_files/wyd01.htm
 
edge said:
Is this kind of helpless gesticulating a part of some bizarre skeptics ritual to ward off logic?
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OK, someone help me out here because now I'm completely confused. Please tell me why theists trip over themselves employing their convoluted interpretation of science in an attempt to reconcile their beliefs with reality and yet they will play the "goddidit" card when logic does not support their ideas. Either the "Noah's Ark" story is scientifically and logically verifiable or "goddidit". Which is it???
 
Whale ancestry and the like that Edge can't comprehend (they will shake his faith--his key to salvation):

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071220220241.htm
http://www.edwardtbabinski.us/mpm/mpm_whale_limb.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080606104814.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/434566.stm

Of course it's all stuff written by evil scientist liars in on the plot to hide the real Christian god from humanity... but if anyone is interested, I found the stuff useful... and teach it (gasp) to my biology students.

I guess the only way you can make a primitive old text interesting in light of all of todays increasing understanding of our world is to keep pretending it's true and admire the Devil's handiwork in the way god tests the faith of his subjects.
 
Autolite said:
OK, someone help me out here because now I'm completely confused. Please tell me why theists trip over themselves employing their convoluted interpretation of science in an attempt to reconcile their beliefs with reality and yet they will play the "goddidit" card when logic does not support their ideas. Either the "Noah's Ark" story is scientifically and logically verifiable or "goddidit". Which is it???
Click to expand...


Godiddit. And only the science which is in line with this is real science... the rest is the devil's handiwork.
 
Of course it's all stuff written by evil scientist liars in on the plot to hide the real Christian god from humanity... but if anyone is interested, I found the stuff useful... and teach it (gasp) to my biology students.
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You force atheism down our childrens' throats? You just wait 'til you die and get judged! ;)
 
Darkhole said:
I wonder, isn't it 'easy' to debunk (or not) this story by building a virtual ark?
You need a few experts, shipbuilder, some biologists, botanicals, stable builders and others.
And yes, some to make the actual simulation.
What do you think?
Click to expand...


The talkorigins site does a pretty thorough debunking of the ark story.
 
edge said:
Romans 1:25 (New International Version)

25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Further down the page,
They are gossips,
30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful
1they are senseless, faithless, heartless, and ruthless.
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If I were afraid that people would employ logic and reason to question the veracity of the superstitions that gave me my social power I would write just such a warning into my magical texts.

Justifiable genocides haven’t occurred since the O.T. ….
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So you believe that the genocides described in the Old Testament were justified. That's one of the sickest things I've ever read. You're so determined to avoid questioning any aspect of your indoctrination that you are backed into the corner of apologizing for your god's reported commands to hack children and infants open with bronze swords. Do you ever actually imagine those reported events? Do you picture piles of dead mothers and children slashed open, little skulls crushed by powerful soldiers? Do you envision old women, too weak to flee, run through as their grandchildren watch? If you claim that such events were justified then at least have the courage to say that the slaughter of children is a good thing when your god desires it. Have the courage to visualize the dismembered bodies of little children rotting in the sun, covered by flies, and praise the glory of your god.
 
Autolite said:
Do you expect people to really believe that whales evolved from some prehistoric water rat? Sorry, but I'm not buying it. Satan has definitely had his hand in this one... :D
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I see you noticed the cloven hooves on the creature too.
 
Darkhole said:
I wonder, isn't it 'easy' to debunk (or not) this story by building a virtual ark?
Click to expand...

forget a virtual one, they're working on the real thing in Maryland.

(does it count if it's got a steel frame?)

www dot godsark dot org

(one of my favorite area landmarks... )
 
So you believe that the genocides described in the Old Testament were justified. That's one of the sickest things I've ever read.
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Again off topic.
I'm not in a position to judge Gods decisions if in fact it is.
I don't condone killing anything-even bugs.
The first instinct a person has when they see a snake is to kill it, I don't.
The Hebrews seem to think or were told it was Justifiable and the reasons where given.
The only person that can explain it to satisfaction will be God.
Unanswered questions will be all answered when we stand before him.

Seems like God should have talked directly to Bush, no pun intended, but what do you think of bombing the crap out of the Iraqi’s, shouldn’t it have been Saudi Arabia?
I would consider that war to be genocidal.
 
edge said:
Again off topic.
I'm not in a position to judge Gods decisions if in fact it is.
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Why not? Do you have no morality?

edge said:
I don't condone killing anything-even bugs.
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I suspect this is variable. How about germs? How about disease-carrying bugs? If you like humans, then you pretty much have to kill some things, even if you are a vegetarian.

edge said:
The first instinct a person has when they see a snake is to kill it, I don't.
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I don't either. But if it were a cobra poised to strike my child, I'd attack it. I love snakes. I love humans more.

edge said:
The Hebrews seem to think or were told it was Justifiable and the reasons where given.
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And that makes it okay with you? Do you let others make all your moral decisions for you?

edge said:
The only person that can explain it to satisfaction will be God.
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And this God has carte blanche to do anything He likes as far as you are concerned? You will be perfectly happy to discard any moral objections? I find this position hard to respect. In my opinion, good person will oppose immoral actions regardless of where they come from.

edge said:
Unanswered questions will be all answered when we stand before him.
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So you say. Apart from any evidence. Apart from any logic. Apart from any morality.

You know, I'll pass on your God. If I believed in a God, it wouldn't be one that killed innocent babies unless he told me the reasons up front. And they'd better be pretty damn good reasons. I don't worship murderers.
 
Back to the OT:
I wonder, isn't it 'easy' to debunk (or not) this story by building a virtual ark?
You need a few experts, shipbuilder, some biologists, botanicals, stable builders and others.
And yes, some to make the actual simulation.
What do you think?
Click to expand...


It would be very easy to build such a virtual ark. You don't even need that many experts. Shipbuilders already use computer simulations to test designs. So you could contact one and ask them to simulate the ark. There would be a few problems with the parameters but they seem solvable.
  • We do not know the tensile strength of gopher wood. But we can be charitable and use the tensile strength of the strongest wood that we know.
  • The construction techniques are not listed, e.g. what kind of joints were used. A reasonable assumption would to simulate an ark constructed using the techniques that were known at the time (a historian may be needed here).
  • The payload of the ark is unknown. But this is a computer simulation so we can easily run it with different payloads. We can go from an extreme of 100% of the ark's volume is payload (animals) to other scenarios, e.g. use 50% so there is room for food, access, Noah and his family, etc.
One problem that I have not seen mentioned with an ark floating on a global ocean is the question of hurricanes (tropical cyclones). The main reason that hurricanes have a limit to their strength is that they run into land and this cuts off their supply of warm water that they need. Without land they just get bigger and stronger. Even a normal hurricane will generate large enough waves and high enough winds to cause problems with the ark. The super-hurricanes allowed by a global flood must have been monstrous!
 
Tricky said:
Why not? Do you have no morality?


I suspect this is variable. How about germs? How about disease-carrying bugs? If you like humans, then you pretty much have to kill some things, even if you are a vegetarian.


I don't either. But if it were a cobra poised to strike my child, I'd attack it. I love snakes. I love humans more.


And that makes it okay with you? Do you let others make all your moral decisions for you?


And this God has carte blanche to do anything He likes as far as you are concerned? You will be perfectly happy to discard any moral objections? I find this position hard to respect. In my opinion, good person will oppose immoral actions regardless of where they come from.


So you say. Apart from any evidence. Apart from any logic. Apart from any morality.

You know, I'll pass on your God. If I believed in a God, it wouldn't be one that killed innocent babies unless he told me the reasons up front. And they'd better be pretty damn good reasons. I don't worship murderers.
Click to expand...

One day you'll learn to love Big Brother.
 
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