Noah's Ark

[joobz]

I don't know what they were thinking, but it isn't close to what I do I don't consult spirits or ask questions of an idol with a, what ever a diviners wand is/was back then.

are diviners wand is a dousing rod. Different label, same thing. Sure you don't use an idol, but you do devine for substances.

I haven't departed from my God, matter of fact if I had, I wouldn't be blessed in seeing and knowing that he works in my life and shows me the truth.

Are you certain about this? You spent time earlier in this thread condoning genocide and the slaughter of children. How are you certain that the god you follow is the true god?

 

[edge]

are diviners wand is a dousing rod. Different label, same thing. Sure you don't use an idol, but you do devine for substances.

Are you certain about this? You spent time earlier in this thread condoning genocide and the slaughter of children. How are you certain that the god you follow is the true god?

I said that, I couldn’t judge God, not that I Condon genocide.
He defeated death so yes, witnessed by over 500 people and the ascension.


Then are metal detectors modern dowsing rods?
If you are skeptical and an atheist by your beliefs there is no such thing… and by YOUR standards, it doesn’t work.
There for, there is no problem.


Like Paul’s scinnce.

I can see you haven’t really studied electronics, gravity, and none of the sciences, just by the way you talk about them, please get some real scinnce books and come back in a few years.

Paul

I see revision in what you blindly follow as your God, as complete science is necessary when it totally denies the existence of God.
You don’t like it when I use science to verify the existence of God.
There’s your contradictions, in science, sucks don’t it?
You must have great faith in it to follow completely and to be lead by the nose, but there are many contradictions in science as well, that you won’t even question.

First thing the God of the OT,…… Can't get to him, can't truly know all there is about him, can’t know his thoughts or actions and the total reason of why and what he has done with those souls is unknown since the New covenant was not in place yet, so then I follow and have faith in Jesus.


Here's what makes you angry, God has final judgment over all his creation, he says so.
HE will put down evil in the end you don't like that because you sit there and do what ever you think is good for you.
You are in that realm of, I can do what I want too because there is no God, therefore no one to answer to. So you make up any excuse not to have to face him, for now anyway.
What you don’t know and I don’t know is, if he in fact took them out, did he allow them a second chance and or are they with him now.
This might be the same as if some one is taken out before they can come to God because of the sin of murder and that is interfering with Gods plan for that soul and others, we will never know about what was true from this perspective and why it’s such a big sin to murder some one.
Not untill the end of our lives when we are allowed to know.......

If you interfere with Gods salvation and by proxy, you are on that side as a child taught wrong doctrines there is no telling what you might do in the future, revenge from false assumptions.
I still don’t know who to judge and who is at fault, could very well be mans excuse or the Hebrews excuse, so I can’t say it is wrong of God since he is willing to sacrifice himself physically to save us.


So you have Jesus telling us what we know to be good and the Hebrew who failed direct communication of the laws of God to believe totally and for them to be righteous, which they couldn't do and the reason for the prophesies of the Messiah are self evident.


As far as why you believe the way you do.
You are hiding something and that is your prerogative, free will, what ever you want to call it, because you don't want to change your world what ever it is.
You might be angry about physical appearance or that you like to drink, smoke dope, take pills for recreation and that may suit your lifestyle or the cover of pain emotional or physical. Or you may like to have sex with as many people as you can, or worst.


Now back to is there any proof of a global flood.
Science of the past.

Indiana dunes.
Where did all the sand that should be there and at the Warren dunes gone to?
I’ll try to get some better photos, the first two pictures shows some of it and I believe they were higher in the past there should be way more.
The steel mill in the background is, Bethlehem Steel, wow how Ironic is that?
http://www.nps.gov/indu/photosmultimedia/index.htm?eid=122759&root_aId=108#e_122759

The Warren Dunes.
More pictures here.
To give you an idea of size.

Warren Dunes has three miles of shoreline, six miles of hiking trails and is open year-round. It also has a dune formation that rises 260 feet above the lake with spectacular views and 1,952 acres of recreational opportunity.


http://www.michigandnr.com/ParksandTrails/Details.aspx?id=504&type=SPRK


I know what the ground is like there in Indiana.

 

[joobz]

I said that, I couldn’t judge God, not that I Condon genocide.

So, you don't like the fact that bible says god killed innocent children or you do?

Let's put it another way, Would you judge Shiva harshly if it was said he killed innocent children?

He defeated death so yes, witnessed by over 500 people and the ascension.

Well, obviously, we must trust the same source for that bit of information as we get the flood story.

It is hard for me to consider any behavior "good" from someone who willingly kills children and demand blood sacrifice.

Then are metal detectors modern dowsing rods?
If you are skeptical and an atheist by your beliefs there is no such thing… and by YOUR standards, it doesn’t work.
There for, there is no problem.

You are correct. It is no problem for me because I do not believe in the bible as literal truth. I was simply highlighting the cognative disconnect between allowing yourself to believe in dousing and also believe in the literal view of the bible. From a strict standpoint, dousing is devil magic.

Indiana dunes.
Where did all the sand that should be there and at the Warren dunes gone to?
I’ll try to get some better photos, the first two pictures shows some of it and I believe they were higher in the past there should be way more.

There should be way more sand dunes? Why?
What is your point here?
BTW, all the sand is in mount baldy.

The steel mill in the background is, Bethlehem Steel, wow how Ironic is that?
http://www.nps.gov/indu/photosmultimedia/index.htm?eid=122759&root_aId=108#e_122759

Why is it ironic? the fact that it is no longer Bethlehem steel, which went out of business, and that plant is now owned by Mittal Steel?

 

[Frozenwolf150]

I said that, I couldn’t judge God, not that I Condon genocide.

It doesn't help one's credibility to claim that after having just judged God to be righteous and just for slaughtering the rival tribes to the Israelites.

He defeated death so yes, witnessed by over 500 people and the ascension.

Hundreds of people also witnessed the miracles of Mohammed or the Buddha, so either you'd better take that into account, or admit that eyewitnesses don't matter much.

Then are metal detectors modern dowsing rods?

It might help if you looked up how metal detectors actually work (hint: it has to do with electromagnetic induction) before you ask such a question. Otherwise you might as well claim that magical forces must be at work when the "N" end of one magnet moves towards the "S" end of another magnet. It wouldn't hurt the credibility of your arguments any more.

I see revision in what you blindly follow as your God, as complete science is necessary when it totally denies the existence of God.
You don’t like it when I use science to verify the existence of God.
There’s your contradictions, in science, sucks don’t it?
You must have great faith in it to follow completely and to be lead by the nose, but there are many contradictions in science as well, that you won’t even question.

This has what to do with Paulhoff's perfectly reasonable request to study and at least attempt to understand the subject matter you are trying to discuss before you discuss it? The goals of science have nothing to do with proving or disproving the existence of God.

First thing the God of the OT,…… Can't get to him, can't truly know all there is about him, can’t know his thoughts or actions and the total reason of why and what he has done with those souls is unknown since the New covenant was not in place yet, so then I follow and have faith in Jesus.

You just finished saying you could scientifically prove the existence of God, and now you say that many important traits of his are unknowable and depend on faith. But we've already been over this.

Here's what makes you angry, God has final judgment over all his creation, he says so. (snip)

This says far more about what makes believers angry, which seems to be that they don't want to have to admit that there is no God who will judge all of humanity by the shallow standards of their specific religion, or who will wipe out everyone they deem evil in a glorious divinely ordained genocide. The one passing judgment here is not God though, it's self-righteous hypocritical doomsday believers.

As far as why you believe the way you do.
You are hiding something and that is your prerogative, free will, what ever you want to call it, because you don't want to change your world what ever it is.
You might be angry about physical appearance or that you like to drink, smoke dope, take pills for recreation and that may suit your lifestyle or the cover of pain emotional or physical. Or you may like to have sex with as many people as you can, or worst.

Again, this says more about what believers would do if they didn't believe in some God holding them back.

Now back to is there any proof of a global flood.
Science of the past.

Indiana dunes.
Where did all the sand that should be there and at the Warren dunes gone to?
I’ll try to get some better photos, the first two pictures shows some of it and I believe they were higher in the past there should be way more.
The steel mill in the background is, Bethlehem Steel, wow how Ironic is that?
http://www.nps.gov/indu/photosmultimedia/index.htm?eid=122759&root_aId=108#e_122759

The Warren Dunes.
More pictures here.
To give you an idea of size.

Warren Dunes has three miles of shoreline, six miles of hiking trails and is open year-round. It also has a dune formation that rises 260 feet above the lake with spectacular views and 1,952 acres of recreational opportunity.


http://www.michigandnr.com/ParksandTrails/Details.aspx?id=504&type=SPRK


I know what the ground is like there in Indiana.

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC365_1.html TO is your friend.

But again, if a massive global flood deposited those sands, you'd have pebbles, mud, rocks, and all sorts of other crap mixed in with them on all layers. A flood that comes and goes in a very short period of time mixes things up. Gradual layering by size and weight takes longer than 40 days to occur.

 

[Madalch]

Why is it ironic? the fact that it is no longer Bethlehem steel, which went out of business, and that plant is now owned by Mittal Steel?

I think Edge, like Baldrick, thinks that "irony" is the same as "goldy" or "bronzy", only with iron. Since steel is mostly iron, any steel mill must be ironic.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

You must have great faith in it to follow completely and to be lead by the nose

Edge, I've already asked you this: Why do you look down on others' alleged blind faith when you yourself have stated that your own faith is blind?

First thing the God of the OT,…… Can't get to him, can't truly know all there is about him, can’t know his thoughts or actions
[...]
God has final judgment over all his creation

Make up your mind. You're contradicting yourself.

he says so.

So does Zeus. So do most dictators, for that matter.

HE will put down evil in the end you don't like that because you sit there and do what ever you think is good for you.

Like almost every other person in the world, yes.

You are in that realm of, I can do what I want too because there is no God, therefore no one to answer to.

Here's a newsflash for you: Atheists have morals, too. I find it deeply insulting as well as hurtful to be told that I feel I can do whatever I want because I believe there's no God. Not only is it utterly and completely wrong and a blatant strawman, it also implies some less-than-nice things about your world view. You make it sound as if the only reason why murder and rape is wrong is that it upsets Yahweh.

I, for one, don't believe in God because there's no evidence for Him, just like there's no evidence of Odin, reincarnation, or the Loch Ness monster.

As far as why you believe the way you do.
You are hiding something and that is your prerogative, free will, what ever you want to call it, because you don't want to change your world what ever it is.
You might be angry about physical appearance or that you like to drink, smoke dope, take pills for recreation and that may suit your lifestyle or the cover of pain emotional or physical. Or you may like to have sex with as many people as you can, or worst.

Right, 'cause that's atheists for you, right? We're ugly emos, we smoke, we drink, we do drugs, and we have promisquous sinful sex (preferably buttseks for extra Sin bonus points) while plotting school shooting, communism and suicide.

 

[Paulhoff]

Like Paul’s scinnce.


I see revision in what you blindly follow as your God, as complete science is necessary when it totally denies the existence of God.

It seems to be a very hard concept for religious people to understand that not to believe in a so-called god means just that. Science is a method it is not a religion and it is not a so-called god. So edge no so-called god means, no so-called god of any kind.

Paul

 

[edge]

Hundreds of people also witnessed the miracles of Mohammed or the Buddha, so either you'd better take that into account, or admit that eyewitnesses don't matter much.
Quote:
Then are metal detectors modern dowsing rods?
It might help if you looked up how metal detectors actually work (hint: it has to do with electromagnetic induction) before you ask such a question. Otherwise you might as well claim that magical forces must be at work when the "N" end of one magnet moves towards the "S" end of another magnet. It wouldn't hurt the credibility of your arguments any more.

Me:

I can do the same with copper wire so that statement isn't true.
It's more like an antenna and free energy and free movement with very little input of electrical energies from me.
The work force is greater than the input of energy.

I have made a working model and have eliminated the human and organic elements with the use of a 9-volt battery, so was the model going against the word?

They work for the same ends, finding what you are looking for.
One makes sounds as an indication or presents of metals and the other method moves as an indicator, the movement is what is important as it relates to electrical process of the Earth, it is I believe a key to virtual free energies.
The question you are asking is it satanic or natural, if it is natural then it is universal throughout the universe and is related more to the either energies which is controlled or set in motion by the creator.

Let's put it another way, Would you judge Shiva harshly if it was said he killed innocent children?

There is no Shiva to judge.

Well, obviously, we must trust the same source for that bit of information as we get the flood story.

How could they be the same source?
Different witnesses at different times spread out with thousands of years between them.

You are correct. It is no problem for me because I do not believe in the bible as literal truth. I was simply highlighting the cognative disconnect between allowing yourself to believe in dousing and also believe in the literal view of the bible. From a strict standpoint, dousing is devil magic.

Well yes there where people back then taking something that is natural and using it as a magic way of talking to spirits and gods to start a false religion for their benefits.
There are examples of the same principles today.

Atomic energy comes to mind and how it is used.
False healers claiming one thing and saying it is god through lies and deception with the only intention of lining their pockets.
Silvia Brown claiming what she claims like; God allows her powers, it is still similar to what the ancient dowsers did.

Hundreds of people also witnessed the miracles of Mohammed or the Buddha, so either you'd better take that into account, or admit that eyewitnesses don't matter much.

What were those miracles that Mohammad did?
Magician tricks like levitating magic carpet rides.
No prophecies announced the coming of Muhammad.
All God's prophets did miracles to prove they were speaking for God. God would have it no other way.

Muhammad did NO miracles and made only ONE vague prophecy about 7th century Romans. Twice in The Qur'an Muhammad admitted he could not show any divine connection via miracles. (Surah 17:90-95; 3:183, also see: 29:50-51)
Muhammad rarely showed any compassion and had all his detractors murdered. He was fond of splitting the spoils of war.

Muhammad himself was unsure if he would go to heaven. Allah often changed his mind to suit Muhammad's personal agenda.
"Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers, smite at their necks;" Qur'an (Koran) 47:4
Sura's 8:39; 9:5; 9:29: 47:4 in the Muslim Qur'an/Koran are 'divine' commandments to persecute Jews and Christians, to defeat them in battle and then to consign them either to slavery or to death.
Who is Allah really? The Qur'an (Koran) says that Allah desires to lead people astray (Qur'an Sura 6:39, 126). He does not help those who are led astray by him (Sura 30:29), and Allah desires to use them to populate hell (Sura 32:13).
According to Muslim scholar Pickthal, "the number of campaigns (military) he (Muhammad) led in person during the last ten years of his life is twenty-seven, in nine of which there was hard fighting. The number of expeditions which he planned and sent out under other leaders is thirty-eight" (n.d., pg. xxvi)


Buddha Prophesized about Jesus (Yeshua)
Buddha's Date of Birth: approx. 563 Before Christ (BC)
http://bibleprobe.com/buddhatoldofjesus.htm

But again, if a massive global flood deposited those sands, you'd have pebbles, mud, rocks, and all sorts of other crap mixed in with them on all layers. A flood that comes and goes in a very short period of time mixes things up. Gradual layering by size and weight takes longer than 40 days to occur.

There are layers and huge ones that are exactly like that but the majority is sand on top of all the other layers as in my movie.
Do an experiment and see how fast the layering occurs.
The glacial action of gouging created the dunes, if you took that sand and pushed it back into the great lakes it would hardly change them and be insignificant.
Think about how deep and how long just lake Michigan is.
Where did all that material go?
Sure now the wind is involved in how they move, as suggested by your link.


The Sahara was forested what, about 12,000 Years ago and you have to get under the sand to know that.

 

[joobz]

There is no Shiva to judge.

You simultaneously avoided the question while also casting a judgement upon him. Did you intend to do that? Afterall, by doing so, you helped illustate my point.

Your avoidance of answering my question directly is a rather clear signal that you do find the slaughter of children amoral. You know what the implications are of saying so outright would be. So, instead you stated that Shiva wasn't real. The funny thing about your claim of shiva is that you have the exact same amount of evidence for saying Shiva isn't real as saying God is. (zero)

How could they be the same source?
Different witnesses at different times spread out with thousands of years between them.

are you claiming that they didn't both come from the bible?

 

[Paulhoff]

The Jewish Messiah has not come yet edge.

Paul

 

[Paulhoff]

Paul

 

[Frozenwolf150]

There is no Shiva to judge.

Good, now we're getting somewhere. Now if you could apply the same standard of objectivity to your own God, you would begin to understand where other people's arguments are coming from.

What were those miracles that Mohammad did?
Magician tricks like levitating magic carpet rides.
No prophecies announced the coming of Muhammad.
All God's prophets did miracles to prove they were speaking for God. God would have it no other way.

You missed the point. Just because someone wrote about miracles and witnesses doesn't make it true. People did in fact write plenty of stories about Mohammed, the Buddha, and other prominent religious figures, and many involved miracles. Does that make those miracles true? Of course it doesn't. But you can find examples of Mohammed's alleged miracles easily (and I'm not arguing that they were any more real than those of Jesus) by searching on any Islam propaganda site. Some from the Qur'an.

But that's still beside the point. Eyewitnesses that someone else wrote about don't mean a thing. If I were to take a pencil and add three more zeroes to that 500 figure, would you be a thousand times more impressed?

There are layers and huge ones that are exactly like that but the majority is sand on top of all the other layers as in my movie.
Do an experiment and see how fast the layering occurs.
The glacial action of gouging created the dunes, if you took that sand and pushed it back into the great lakes it would hardly change them and be insignificant.
Think about how deep and how long just lake Michigan is.
Where did all that material go?
Sure now the wind is involved in how they move, as suggested by your link.


The Sahara was forested what, about 12,000 Years ago and you have to get under the sand to know that.

What exactly are you suggesting happened here, and how does that prove a global flood?
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CD/CD202.html Another more relevant link.

 

[edge]

You missed the point. Just because someone wrote about miracles and witnesses doesn't make it true.

In a court of law it does and especially when there are cooperative witnesses.

In the time-line of science, as best as they can come up with, 12,000 years ago a major event occurred.
Humans appear about 20,000 years before that, the dating techniques aren't perfect and the Hebrews weren't perfect.

But that's still beside the point. Eyewitnesses that someone else wrote about don't mean a thing. If I were to take a pencil and add three more zeroes to that 500 figure, would you be a thousand times more impressed?

I would be Impressed if only ten people witnessed the event of the ascension.



So Paul you listen to magicians for guidance.
A magician’s job is to fool you into what they want you to see.
Jesus walked on a sea not a wading pool.
Not only that but they are vulgar.
I never liked them ever, I thought they were hacks when I was a child and it appears they are even worse now.
They are rude, ugly and vulgar and I can't stand the sight of them.
When they said Bullsh** that's exactly what they are handing you.

Notice that one is the mouthpiece and one is a puppet.
Exactly what the devil does.

First lie that they state and this is from Schemer, (sp.) he states that God makes Adam and Eve at the same time.
What's being stated in that passage is that man is created in his image but it says, male and female he created them, referring to all the other creatures.
At this point it's telling us that man is alone without a mate.
The animals are with mates but not man.
They both got it wrong,( and they have PhDs, Jezz), there aren’t two authors it’s the way they talked in the Kings English.
There was never any confusion in the way I understood that passage.

Then the two lost souls want to make a connection to Elvis a sinner, oh brother.
Elvis is a rotting corpse.
He never walked out of the grave and yes there are conspiracy theories that he went under ground to escape the fame of his popularity the two do not even compare, no ascension, no miracles and I bet he did die of drug abuse.
Loving Elvis in the way that some of the fans did is a false worship of sorts.
Using false adoration of a human is also repulsive using him to compare to Christ is blasphemous.
These clowns are using the tabloids to back their claim, oh my God!
You really believe this?
Their logic is so twisted it’s funny as hell.

Then they discuss the flood story.
Yes there is a story within a story.
They, Myers and Schemer are both right to a degree.


I freeze framed the last part of your first film, that's all I have time for because I’m on dial up.

Let me give you some advice. At the end of that first film.
The tall one I take is Penn, he has a demon in him, it's most noticeable at the moment he puts his hand on his heart, that's body language to say he is sincere and knowledgeable, he has cat like pupils.
We have noticed this also in many actors, it is really noticeable when you see them on a big screen remember I said in the past, the eyes are a window to the soul these two have sold their souls for fame and fortune.....

His condescending attitude is another give away.
It is his way to lead you away from the truth.

 

[Paulhoff]

So Paul you listen to magicians for guidance.
A magician’s job is to fool you into what they want you to see.

No a magician tells you he is going to fool you, and then does, that is called telling the truth and there is a lot to learn from that. But in your case, you fool yourself and don't tell yourself that and therefore you believe in magical things, like so-called gods and dowsing.


Man was created after the other animals
Gen 1:25, 26, 27
Man was created before the other animals
Gen 2: 18, 19

Paul

 

[Foster Zygote]

In a court of law it does and especially when there are cooperative witnesses.

Only if those witnesses are available. If you try to introduce "eyewitness testimony" in the form of a note that says "such and such happened and a bunch of people saw it" it will be inadmissible.

 

[Foster Zygote]

The tall one I take is Penn, he has a demon in him, it's most noticeable at the moment he puts his hand on his heart, that's body language to say he is sincere and knowledgeable, he has cat like pupils.
We have noticed this also in many actors, it is really noticeable when you see them on a big screen remember I said in the past, the eyes are a window to the soul these two have sold their souls for fame and fortune.....

I'm sorry Edge, are you literally claiming that Penn Gillette and various film actors have vertical slits for pupils?

 

[joobz]

His condescending attitude is another give away.
It is his way to lead you away from the truth.

If condescension is an indication of a person whose beign deceitful, then christianity is DEFINITELY false.


However, I do not agree with that. Condescension is really just being jerky and has nothing at all to do with being right or wrong.

I would be Impressed if only ten people witnessed the event of the ascension.

There were more than 10 people who witnessed Elvis walking among us after he died. Since you have more than your number required, do you believe that Elvis rose from the dead?

 

[Paulhoff]

The tall one I take is Penn, he has a demon in him, it's most noticeable at the moment he puts his hand on his heart, that's body language to say he is sincere and knowledgeable, he has cat like pupils.

Demon, more of your magical thinking again, you just make something up with no proof and for you it is true.

Edge you be the first one they would burn in the good old days along with your (marks of the devil) dowsing sticks.

Paul

 

[Foster Zygote]

Demon, more of your magical thinking again, you just make something up with no proof and for you it is true.

Edge you be the first one they would burn in the good old days along with your (marks of the devil) dowsing sticks.

Paul

I read an account by another Christian who said he couldn't get any results with dowsing rods because he didn't have a demon in him. He cited Hosea 4:12 as evidence.

 

[I Ratant]

Last night on the "History Channel", a story on the Chinese Junk, a group of...... dowsers...!!! located one of the junks which got to America 71 years before Columbus, using their dowsing "skills".
Well, at least they said they'd located the ship.
Their test borings brought up some wood.
A hole right next to the first got nothing.
They coulda used a backhoe.