Noah's Ark

[Darkhole]

Burden of proof. Disbelieving in a myth with zero evidence has nothing whatsoever to do with faith.

"I contend that we're both atheists - I just believe in one less god than you".

What's with your stance on Quetzalcoatl's, then?

Probably floats just as well as the two 40- and 60 room longboats owned by two chieftains or whatever in Olav the Holy's saga. Or the flying ship in H.C. Andersen's fairy tale. Or the Millenium Falcon. Or any other made-up vessel of myth or fiction.

I had to google voor Quetzalcoatl's.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Sorry about the apostrophe and s, don't know how they got in there.

Quezacotl the feathered serpent was the Aztec's god.

 

[Clairvoyant_Kyle]

It’s a perfectly reasonable and flawless story of the bible. So just leave it alone. I’m joking! It’s one of the dumbest highly believed stories in history. It’s so packed full of holes that if it was not connected directly to religion no one would think it was real. Ok, well almost no one.

 

[edge]

So you hope that one day, it will be proven, that god committed genocide?

We were talking about sources that verify that Herod did the same read back.

Additionally, I notice that you have not responded to my comment on the utter lack of historical evidence for Herod slaughtering the innocents,

They found one of the grave sites/areas where the Amalikites dump the bodies thousands of children that have been sacrificed.

This initially breaks down to; can God judge evil and the heart?


But first:

There are a lot of details in the Harry Potter books too. In fact, I find fiction is often richer in detail than is fact. Have you ever known a pathological liar?

Disguising the satanic into the righteous.

Just through the computer.

Ick- I sound like edge saying that. I'm going to go shower.

Madalch don't blame your stink on me.

You really should do that once every day.

We don't know what the world was like before, not really.

Half the globe was under an ice sheet.
But at least your thinking.


Close up of the lighter and heavier materials.

Closer look at the lighter layering and lighter sand the last fifteen' to the top.
As close as I could get.
You’ll notice that the clays and sands all the way down to the river rock or glacial deposits are the same color.
There are smaller layers of different size gravels but they all diminish in size as you look up till the last fifteen feet or so and it’s all sand mixed with clay.
There is an average of 2 to 15 foot of sand on top of two valleys up here and it basically covers all other layer except the last foot or so, which is from the forest or humus.
The layering is from present to 12,000 years ago to that layering that the gold comes from there are approximately three to five of those with the smoother rounder shaped, larger rock that increase in size in layering down to the bottom or bedrock in those last four or five layers.
When you get down in those you can tell that you are looking sometimes at a bedrock or bottom that was part of the glacial flow.


View the high quality.

Wave of sand.

http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=uz3bbOvE5VU


Closer look at the lighter layering and lighter sand.

http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=RMwYSGthmHw&feature=user

Closer look at the wave from lapping.

http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=9k35BiPbtbo

Entire wave deposit.

http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=bPZP1frICyk&feature=related



The other bottom up here where sand was brought in by glacial movement that was from glacial action is blue clay but that’s well…. below any of those that are in my videos and much older. It is a lot harder, and solidified than the sandier bank that I filmed.
In those layers you can find fossilized tree trunks below that is a layer much older called conglomerate and it, is has petrified tress in it,….. it’s age is notable because of the color,… black, usually, unless you break open a rock to see the original color.

These layers all come up in succession and the only thing that explains it is a mass amount of water large enough to carry that amount of sand and currents large enough to carry gravels and great volumes of sand and a volume so large to deposit those amounts of sediment.
This would require an ocean IMO in resent times.
These valleys are at about the 2,500’ to 2,570’.
The level here of water necessary to join with and inundate these valleys would have had to breach the 3600’ elevations of the mountains surrounding the valleys at two different locations. For that amount it would have been at a minimum of 1000 feet above the valley floor.

This is what seems to have happened.

There’s variance in the deposits and color along the edges where more clays would have eroded of the sides of the mountains, but the flat and lowest places in these valleys is sand more toward the center of the valley.

I’ll have more proof and videos as I travel around up here.

What's with your stance on Quetzalcoatl's, then?

Funny how two groups that are isolated in the world could be worshipping in the same manner for the same reasons?
Still satanic and a false religion.
Same thing that was happening on one side of the world was happening on this side of the world
That devil got around ...Eh?

Paulhoff it's not meant for growing food.
It's meant for you to grow spiritually.

 

[Paulhoff]

See below.

Paul

 

[Foster Zygote]

But first: Disguising the satanic into the righteous.

I realize that you specialise in non sequiturs, but what is your point. You seemed to be saying that you felt the richness of detail of the account in Matthew pointed to its veracity. I pointed out that it is simple to fabricate a plethora of details in an entirely fictional story.

 

[Paulhoff]

Someone should tell edge about dating, and plate tectonics.

Paul



And edge, people keep telling me it is all in the bible, and killing is not a good way to grow spiritually.

 

[joobz]

We were talking about sources that verify that Herod did the same read back.

So you hope one day that there will be historical proof that herod committed genocide but you don't want proof that god committed genocide by flood?

it's really hard to keep up with what you are trying to support.

Did god kill 2 year old children?
If yes. Do you believe 2 year old children can be irredeemably wicked?

 

[X]

I know, I said I wouldn't respond.
But Edge did make the effort to provide reasoning, instead of just "faith", so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

They found one of the grave sites/areas where the Amalekites dump the bodies thousands of children that have been sacrificed.

What did the Amalekites have to do with Herod?
In the Old Testament, they are wared against by many Isrealite leaders, before being finally wiped out by Hezekiah, iirc.
Long before Herod's time.

Different eras, Edge. The war against the Amalekites does not support yur assertion that Herod slaughtered the children.
You still have the utter lack of corroborating evidence to account for.
And I warn you, if you claim it must be true because it is in the book of Matthew, you must then prove that book is an absolutely reliable and accurate record of history. Not assert, prove.

I sincerely hope you will continue to provide substance instead of appeals to faith. You will be all the better for it.

 

[Frozenwolf150]

Since edge isn't going to answer my question about whether humans are able to judge God to be just or unjust, I take it he concedes on that point.

Please edge, show me one thing in the bible that would help me to grow food, make something like building a house, fix a broken bone, and explain the inner workings of the universe that I can use. There is a lot about killing people and a lot of BS about a self centered so-called god that just can’t get people to do what it what’s and its only solution to this is kill them, but with great love.

I'd also like him to show me where the bible contains mathematical principles that are still widely applied today, information on the origins of life and its mechanisms that modern biology can draw its basis from, or just any profound moral teaching that isn't contradicted somewhere else in the bible.

Incidentally, I already showed him the maps of North America from the period when a giant sea covered it, and explained that they would have receded slowly in order to deposit sands. After all, sands are typically associated with shorelines. Despite the fact that the timeline AND the timescale of the receding seas would be way off, he insisted that they support the biblical flood story. There's just the small problem of how there weren't any humans around at that particular time 300 million years ago.

 

[GT/CS]

snip.....Anyone to claim that 3 year olds, 2year olds, 5 year olds, 4 year olds were all wicked and deserved death is amoral. A god who would demand such action is amoral. A person who would defend a god who would do such action is amoral. It doesn't matter if that person calls god, God, godhead, JuJu, Allah, Jehovah, Xenu, Bart, ...., they are defending an amoral god.

Any why would anyone want to spend eternity with such a being?

Of course, the only reason most Christians worship their god is because they don't want to go to hell. All in all a pretty selfish reason to believe. Their own comfort takes precedence over everything else, and everyone else, which is in direct contradiction to Jesus' teachings.

I'd call it amoral hypocrisy.

 

[edge]

What did the Amalekites have to do with Herod?

The fallen are in all cultures.
A Hebrew king, doing what was done to his people in the past, was doing the same to his own, all because of thinking of loss,… of his throne and power.

And I warn you, if you claim it must be true because it is in the book of Matthew, you must then prove that book is an absolutely reliable and accurate record of history. Not assert, prove.

I'll have to fire up the time machine.
We'll take a ride.
This is where I said maybe some thing more will come up through archeology and I'll see what I can dig up on the reliability of all four of the gospels.
Joobz says:

Did god kill 2 year old children?
If yes. Do you believe 2 year old children can be irredeemably wicked?

Wasn't there can't judge God.
The O.T. predicts the coming of Christ though and his teachings are the way.

 

[joobz]

Wasn't there can't judge God.
The O.T. predicts the coming of Christ though and his teachings are the way.

So is that a yes, god will kill 2 year olds and you are ok with this?

 

[X]

The fallen are in all cultures.
A Hebrew king, doing what was done to his people in the past, was doing the same to his own, all because of thinking of loss,… of his throne and power.

This unfounded assertion (which assumes there is such a thing as fallen, and is thus begging the question) does absolutely nothing to prove that Herod ordered the killing of children.
You have no evidence, outside of one unreliable text, that the slaughter of the innocents ever took place.

I'll have to fire up the time machine.
We'll take a ride.
This is where I said maybe some thing more will come up through archeology and I'll see what I can dig up on the reliability of all four of the gospels.

And now we are back to faith. The faith the books thus far shown to be highly innacurate will somehow be proven factual.
This is an admission that you have absolutely no evidence.


At this is patently clear that you have no real desire to consider evidence or truth. You simply want to believe what you already hold true, despite contradicting evidence.
I strongly suggest you research "cognistive dissonance" and "self justification".
It would be a waste of time to debate with you further.

Goodbye Edge.

 

[Mashuna]

Wasn't there can't judge God.

So anything God does is automatically good, in your view? Whatever that might be?

 

[Seismosaurus]

Is there enough water in the world to completely submerge the land? Someone must have done some calculations.

No there isn't, not even close.

The creationist answer to this problem that I've most commonly seen is to assume that the current mountains did not exist in flood times; the Earth was a very flat place back then, and so could be covered by far less water.

Generally they claim that there was a giant layer of water floating around the Earth in the sky (which incidentally shielded us from cosmic radiation, which is why people lived hundreds of years back then) which provided the rain needed to flood the world. Afterwards this water drained into underground caverns.

During this whole draining process the Earth's surface got shook up a lot, deepening the sea floor and raising the land to form the mountains that we know today.

Simple really. Absolutely unfounded in and contradictory to fact, but simple.

 

[Foster Zygote]

The fallen are in all cultures.
A Hebrew king, doing what was done to his people in the past, was doing the same to his own, all because of thinking of loss,… of his throne and power.

What about Moses? He slaughtered 3000 of his people in one go. This is where your cognitive dissonance comes from: You know that the actions described in the Old Testament are horrifically evil, yet you are determined to maintain your belief that every letter of the Bible is the inerrant word of God and is to be taken literally. Thus you force yourself to justify things like the wholesale slaughter of babies. You stated that Hitler was a false prophet because he commited mass murder, an act that you find repugnant. How do you know that Moses wasn't a false prophet for the very same reason?

This is where I said maybe some thing more will come up through archeology and I'll see what I can dig up on the reliability of all four of the gospels.

So you don't have any evidence.

Wasn't there can't judge God.

You can, you just don't want to because you would have to either admit that your god is evil or that the Bible isn't 100% literal.

The O.T. predicts the coming of Christ though and his teachings are the way.

The Old Testament predicted a savior and the New Testament shoehorned Jesus into that role.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

You stated that Hitler was a false prophet because he commited mass murder, an act that you find repugnant.

Not to mention that Muhammed was a false prophet because he had sex with a nine year old girl.

So... if pedophilia and forced marriage are bad enough to disqualify you from prophet status, why isn't genocide?

Wasn't there can't judge God.

Wasn't there can't judge Hitler.
Wasn't there can't judge Pol Pot.
Wasn't there can't judge Mao.

I wasn't there when Mao killed 70 million people through gross mismanagement and witch hunts. I don't have "all the info" or even a good deal of info; I'm shamefully ignorant of what happened in China.

Yet I don't sit around saying that I need more info to make up my mind. I condemn Mao's actions because there's simply no justification for them.

 

[edge]

Incidentally, I already showed him the maps of North America from the period when a giant sea covered it, and explained that they would have receded slowly in order to deposit sands. After all, sands are typically associated with shorelines. Despite the fact that the timeline AND the timescale of the receding seas would be way off, he insisted that they support the biblical flood story. There's just the small problem of how there weren't any humans around at that particular time 300 million years ago.

Those ancient shores are here too but they are at the 3000 to 4000 foot level and are well known here.
There is also serpentine at those levels and higher proving those mountains were under water.
Thos are like a conglomerate sand and you have to use a pick ax the sand that I described is loose and like the sand on the beaches that are on the shore lines today, you can shovel them up.
Two different compositions.


And now I am going to get some gold from that spot, I might film that too as I have found the spots to dig in by dowsing for them.

 

[HghrSymmetry]

At this is patently clear that you have no real desire to consider evidence or truth. You simply want to believe what you already hold true, despite contradicting evidence.
I strongly suggest you research "cognistive dissonance" and "self justification".
It would be a waste of time to debate with you further.

Well X, if it's any consolation every rational poster (after numerous attempts to have a meaningful discussion), comes to the same conclusion.

It's entertaining to see the hoops that some will jump through to maintain their delusions, but I wouldn't recommend engaging them for anything but amusement purposes.