Merged Near Death Experience Study
- Thread starter dogjones
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I know testimonies are not considered scientific evidence here, but I would like to put my story in too.
About five years ago I suffered a asthma attack that put me in hospital and killed me a few times. Once in the ambulance on the way to hospital and a few more times in the emergency room.
They kept defibrillating me and bringing me back to life, which is why I am alive today. One of the times I came back I was protesting about them bringing me back to life. I had been in Heaven and I was really happy. They explained how the optic nerve does something when you die so you see the light at the end of the tunnel, and everyone has halucinations, sometimes of dead relatives. But they don't really have an explanation for a spiritual paradise.
I saw God on His throne in Heaven. He looks like a gentle giant. There were male and female angels around too, maybe fifteen of them. I'm a pretty good comedian when I get going and I was in the zone at the time. I was really happy. I could feel spiritual paradise inside me and outside me too.
Then the defibrillator kicked in and I was back in my body in the emergency room. Straight from a spiritual paradise where I was happy to earth where there is no spiritual paradise. It was really tempting to tell them to not resuscitate me next time.
So, still alive today. And I plan on getting into Heaven and living in a spiritual paradise for ever.
About five years ago I suffered a asthma attack that put me in hospital and killed me a few times. Once in the ambulance on the way to hospital and a few more times in the emergency room.
They kept defibrillating me and bringing me back to life, which is why I am alive today. One of the times I came back I was protesting about them bringing me back to life. I had been in Heaven and I was really happy. They explained how the optic nerve does something when you die so you see the light at the end of the tunnel, and everyone has halucinations, sometimes of dead relatives. But they don't really have an explanation for a spiritual paradise.
I saw God on His throne in Heaven. He looks like a gentle giant. There were male and female angels around too, maybe fifteen of them. I'm a pretty good comedian when I get going and I was in the zone at the time. I was really happy. I could feel spiritual paradise inside me and outside me too.
Then the defibrillator kicked in and I was back in my body in the emergency room. Straight from a spiritual paradise where I was happy to earth where there is no spiritual paradise. It was really tempting to tell them to not resuscitate me next time.
So, still alive today. And I plan on getting into Heaven and living in a spiritual paradise for ever.
So let's say we have someone who keels over with a heart attack. Let's also assume, either the heart attack was painless, or the symptoms were mistaken for something else (e.g., indigestion). Within seconds, they're unconscious.
If hypoxia isn't a good explanation for an NDE, what else do we have? An NDE during resuscitation? Is there brain activity during CPR?
Cool story. And as a story I can believe as much or as little as I like because you have nothing at all to corroborate your cool story.
You get that, right?
barehl
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I don't want to take away your faith, but in situations like this, endorphins take effect and produce euphoric symptoms. I know of cases of people who were fatally injured and should have been in excruciating pain. Instead, they felt calm and euphoric like you did. It doesn't happen every time; there are people who die in agony or are in agony during near fatal injuries. However, it isn't rare.
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barehl
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There is one problem with this assertion. Dr. Bruce Greyson was one of the authors of Irreducible Mind in 2006.
This book asserts James' and Myers' theory of mind that dates back to the end of the 19th century. If you've never heard of Myers, he wrote Human Personality and Its Survival of Bodily Death back in 1903. The notion is that the mind is not a function of the brain at all but that the brain merely filters certain aspects of a superliminal mind. Greyson simply does not believe that it is possible for human consciousness to be a result of physical processes; he assumes that there must be something more.
As to his description about hypoxia; it's more than a little embarrassing. During one of the Everest Expeditions, a climber simply collapsed. Now, I have been to Loveland Pass which is 12,000 feet above sea level and I recall that even walking was noticeably more difficult. At the altitude of Everest, it is far beyond that. His teammates had no way of carrying him so they simply left him there. Someone from the same climbing team made it to the summit and was returning when he saw something unbelievable. This man had woke up and suffering from hypoxia had removed his clothes. They hurried to get him dressed and get an oxygen mask on him. He felt warm and euphoric while half naked in bitterly cold conditions. He wasn't frightened, agitated, or belligerent. His behavior was not unusual. There is a similar phenomenon that happens to divers who go too deep using only compressed air. The old name for it was "the rapture of the deep". The modern term is nitrogen narcosis.
If you want to read an actual scientific paper on this topic, you might try: Using Ketamine to Induce the Near-Death Experience
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No, and neither did Pixy. Perhaps you should review what he said.
Just imagine all those Hindus who are in for a real shock when when they get an NDE, and see God instead of Ganesh or some other Hindu god. Are there reports about Hindus converting to Christianity after having had an NDE? If not, you should consider the possibility that what you in fact saw was what you wanted to see.
Actually, that makes me glad, because it opens the possibility of having a nice death, no matter what you believe.
Except when person after person starts telling you these fantastic stories, right when they're near death, eventually you know there's something going on. Nobody doubts that NDE's are occurring. The question is, what's causing them?
Perhaps you should drop the snarky tone?
If you don't believe hypoxia is causing NDE's what do you think is causing them?
The brain.
Specifically, when the brain is put under duress,or stress, of being put in the situatiuon where harm, is being done to the brain. (Loss of blood, loss of oxygen...etc.)
In cardiac arrest, there's no loss of blood. There's hypoxia, but are you claiming hypoxia is what's causing NDE's? That doesn't seem like a good explanation, for the reasons given.
If the heart arrests, there is no pumping of blood.
barehl
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I've already commented on this. What people might see as NDE's or other mystical experiences can be caused by hypoxia, endorphins, and psychological stress. It is no secret that groups who seek these types of experiences generally use sleep deprivation, fasting, physical stresses, psychological stresses, and sometimes hallucinogenic substances like peyote and mushrooms. I don't see how this relates to anything supernatural.
There are cases of people who have had mystical experiences during rock concerts. It depends on how great your psychological stress is. People with bipolar disorder can be more susceptible to such experiences during manic phases.
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Right, that would be loss of blood pressure.
Here's an article about people who experience Hypoxia:
"At Tuesday's demonstration, symptoms of oxygen deprivation were apparent within minutes among the students and university officials inside the lab. John LaRosa, 19, developed tunnel vision. Sable Soderlund, 20, felt dizzy and watched her fingertips lose color. Andrew Kiragu, 20, had trouble comprehending written instructions. Richard Heist, chief academic officer for the university, couldn't focus and said the color red lost its brightness."
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...ry-riddle-aeronautical-university-deprivation
That doesn't gel with reports of some NDE's.
Awhile back, there was a big study of NDE's done that was in the Lancet. This is what the research team concluded:
"Similar experiences can be induced through electrical stimulation of the temporal lobe (and hence of the hippocampus) during neurosurgery for epilepsy,23 with high carbon dioxide levels (hypercarbia),24 and in decreased cerebral perfusion resulting in local cerebral hypoxia as in rapid acceleration during training of fighter pilots,25 or as in hyperventilation followed by valsalva manoeuvre.4 Ketamine-induced experiences resulting from blockage of the NMDA receptor,26 and the role of endorphin, serotonin, and enkephalin have also been mentioned,27 as have near-death-like experiences after the use of LSD,28 psilocarpine, and mescaline.21 These induced experiences can consist of unconsciousness, out-of-body experiences, and perception of light or flashes of recollection from the past. These recollections, however, consist of fragmented and random memories unlike the panoramic life-review that can occur in NDE. Further, transformational processes with changing life-insight and disappearance of fear of death are rarely reported after induced experiences."
http://profezie3m.altervista.org/archivio/TheLancet_NDE.htm
That was 13 years ago. I don't know if there have been any other studies.
I didn't claim it was supernatural, just weird that during cardiac arrest, there's often this profound coherent vivid spiritual experience. Maybe the experience is happening after the resuscitation?
Right.
Loss of blood pressure results in loss of blood circulation (not loss of blood quantity) but, certainly the brain (and body) experiences loss of blood to its various parts and organs, because of a lack of circulation.
Loss in blood circulation. Loss of blood delivery. Not loss of blood quantity.
The term "seeing one's life, flash before one's eyes" is nothing more than a phrase. Please show evidence that one who is clinically dead has reviewed the totality of one's life in vivid detail.
That is laughable.
bruto
Penultimate Amazing
Certainly the reporting of the experience is happening after the resuscitation. All experiences are interpreted.
Certainly many near death experiences resemble each other, but (I really don't know an answer here) what percentage of such experiences are we dealing with here? It goes without saying, of course, that most people who progress toward death die, and their experiences cannot be reported unless they're talking as they go. What percentage of those who do not die report similar experiences, or any experiences at all?
Good point.
I didn't say "clinically dead". I said "cardiac arrest".
Are you disputing that many people report experiencing a "life review" during cardiac arrest? No one doubts that people are experiencing weird things, like life-reviews and "meeting" dead relatives, OBE's, feelings of "oneness", etc.
The question is, what's causing these experiences during cardiac arrest? Are they happening immediately afterwards?