Merged Near Death Experience Study

[Frozenwolf150]

These cultural differences can be different manifestations of the same essence.
Brahman, atman, god, universal awareness, tao,... The symbolic manifestations are different, but these can be manifestations of the same thing.

It's what Advaita Vedanta talks about, which talks about the illusion of this world (Maya) and how pure Brahman (Ultimate Reality) and Atman (True Self or Soul) are really one.
Learn about Advaitadvaitadvaitavada.

Other way around. One's NDEs will tend to reflect whichever system of beliefs one was raised with or indoctrinated into. This is not evidence that something is manifesting in all of these people across cultures, especially considering that no two cultures can agree on what exactly it is. An NDE isn't an escape into higher reality, it's the brain tricking the person into thinking they have.

 

[deaman]

I have read about these so called manifestations of light and tunnels for years.

I have in fact, stop breathing on the table, in the hospital, and had to be resusitated .

I neither saw, nor experienced any of these things.

 

[PixyMisa]

These cultural differences can be different manifestations of the same essence.
Brahman, atman, god, universal awareness, tao,... The symbolic manifestations are different, but these can be manifestations of the same thing.

Indeed. They're all manifestations of ignorance.

 

[Shadow the Poodle]

Fact is that many people witness the same kind of near death experiences, without knowing eachother: a bright white light and a feeling of unconditioned love. This feeling is a universal experience of these people. I cannot understand that a feeling of deep love just comes from not getting enough blood in the brain. People also have the experience that they see very sharp. Their Near Death Experience is more clear than while they are awake. Alexander Eben, an expert of the brain, witnessed consciousness during his NDE, while all his training says that there couldn't be any kind of awareness.

A perfect description of the symptoms I experience when Hypoxic in an altitude chamber, been there several times, watched the video back and there I am with a dumb grin on my face feeling so happy, instructor shouting at me to put my mask back on. NDE=Hypoxia. Nothing to see here.

 

[marplots]

This bit about putting religious themes on physical reactions reminds me of the whirling dervishes and their spinning.

(Wiki)
The whirling dance or Sufi whirling that is proverbially associated with dervishes is best known in the West by the practices (performances) of the Mevlevi order in Turkey, and is part of a formal ceremony known as the Sema. It is, however, also practiced by other orders. The Sema is only one of the many Sufi ceremonies performed to try to reach religious ecstasy (majdhb, fana).

 

[turingtest]

These cultural differences can be different manifestations of the same essence.Brahman, atman, god, universal awareness, tao,... The symbolic manifestations are different, but these can be manifestations of the same thing.

It's what Advaita Vedanta talks about, which talks about the illusion of this world (Maya) and how pure Brahman (Ultimate Reality) and Atman (True Self or Soul) are really one.
Learn about Advaitadvaitadvaitavada.

That one highlighted sentence expresses exactly why NDEs are fine for faith, but not so good in science- aside from the subjective (i.e., non-quantifiable) nature of the experiences, the conclusion they are supposedly evidence for is a non-falsifiable one. You start out by saying here that

many people, independent from eachother, have exactly the same "hallucination"

But then, when it's pointed out (here, by Giordano) that

people from different cultures report different near death experiences, and that these are each consistent with what their own culture has told them to expect

you calmly accept the exact opposite of your original evidence as also being evidence for the conclusion you were using the original to prove, and just assert that it's explained by your conclusion- your "same essence." You're reasoning in a circle that covers contradictions by avoiding the burden of falsifiability for a theory that "explains" everything while actually explaining nothing at all.

 

[Frozenwolf150]

This bit about putting religious themes on physical reactions reminds me of the whirling dervishes and their spinning.

The same goes for deep and practiced meditation. You can train your brain to experience visions, lucid states, and vivid dreaming. However, it's still a physical reaction that can be explained neurologically. Nothing mystical about it.

 

[marplots]

The same goes for deep and practiced meditation. You can train your brain to experience visions, lucid states, and vivid dreaming. However, it's still a physical reaction that can be explained neurologically. Nothing mystical about it.

I have to admit I've intentionally set out to modify my emotional state, in a way that might parallel what the religious are after. I might, for example, binge-listen to a set list of very sad songs (I have just such a list bookmarked) because the catharsis makes me feel better after all the teary-bleary. When I do it, I have a purpose in mind, much like I imagine the religious might do some behavior to "feel spiritual."

It's a fascinating idea - that we can alter mental states that are usually unreachable, and do it willfully. From a biological perspective, it's less surprising. After all, I can set out to exercise and fatigue my muscles or change my weight by dieting. There's no particular reason I couldn't modify my own brain in the same fashion.

 

[deaman]

Would you rather concentrate on avoiding stress or creating happiness?

 

[Pope130]

I have had an experience that gave me a possible insight into the process. I was recently at the ER for a minor condition that had suddenly worsened. I was standing at the counter as the clerk took information. I suddenly felt nauseous, dizzy and hot. Next thing I knew I was looking up a ring of concerned faces. I had passed out. (As an aside, why does the clerk, who is presumably healthy, have a chair, while the ER visitor, presumably ill, have to stand?)

This is the first time I've passed out, so, for me a unique experience. Part of my memory of the event is a flash image of myself lying on the floor, as viewed from straight above. I interpret this as an image created in my own mind as it tried to figure out what was going on. It might have gone something like this: "Wow, ring of people I don't know, staring at me. Hey, I'm flat on my back! I must be lying down. To them I must look like this (insert image)."

I can see how someone, in similar circumstances, could easily interpret this as an out of body experience. Same, experience, different interpretation.

While the ER people were very kind and helpful, the image of them looking down at me has disturbing echoes of Gary Larsen's drawing "Custer's Last View."

 

[dlorde]

I read in one of the articles:

"The enhancement of mental
functioning at a time when
the brain is impaired is not
easily explained by
materialist models."

There are a number of dubious assumptions that lead to such statements, including the assumption that the experience occurred when brain function was seriously impaired, when it could have occurred during reoxgenation (recovery) when the neurons may be hypersensitive, temporal perception is likely to be distorted, and a post-hoc narrative is generated around a visual whiteout (greyout) and random firings in the emotional networks. Another assumption is that the measured impairment would have prevented the reported experience; yet another is that the reported experience required enhancement of mental functioning.

Nevertheless, there are other possible explanations, such as a significant burst of brain activity after cardiac arrest (observed in rats).

 

[mstricky]

My father experienced out of body experience in the seventies when no one but no one had even heard of them. He was in hospital and had a heart attack. He told us that he floated up to the ceiling and that he knew he was on the ceiling because he was next to the light shade which was green. He looked down and saw himself on the hospital bed and watched whilst doctors came in and tried to revive him. He said he felt wonderful and just wanted to float away and never come back but the next thing he was back in his body in bed.
None of us knew what to say as we didn't understand it at the time. It is only in recent years that I understand that what he had was an out of body experience

 

[deaman]

My father experienced out of body experience in the seventies when no one but no one had even heard of them.

Obviously, you must be writing of the early 1070's.

 

[Soapy Sam]

"Near death" is, like "Nearly pregnant", a term of restricted meaning.
If someone is unconscious but does not die, it is hard to say what their brain was doing at any point in the process and it is unlikely their memories of what happened can be reliable.
If someone is unconscious and then does die, ditto. Squared.

 

[deaman]

How can anyone acurately know what "near death" actually involves?

If a person is almost hit by a speeding car, say within one inch, should that person expect an OBE?

We seem to be talking about the "human brain", and who here has a detailed, or even "reasonable" explanation, for what "that" entails?

 

[bruto]

thank you for the link.
I read in one of the articles:

"The enhancement of mental
functioning at a time when
the brain is impaired is not
easily explained by
materialist models."

Enhancement is a problematic term.

It is, after all, possible to be colorfully, flamboyantly wrong.

 

[deaman]

Enhancement?

When the brain is impaired?

WTF......?

 

[arthwollipot]

Advaitadvaitadvaitavada.

* arthwollipot dies in a flash of green light

 

[bruto]

Enhancement?

When the brain is impaired?

WTF......?

In another thread, I've been arguing with someone who is convinced that the highest consciousness is achieved by abandoning consciousness, wisdom is achieved by transcending thought, and communication perfected by embracing the indescribable. So sure, why not consider a half dead brain enhanced too? I'm seeing stars. Wow, groovy.

 

[deaman]

In another thread, I've been arguing with someone who is convinced that the highest consciousness is achieved by abandoning consciousness, wisdom is achieved by transcending thought, and communication perfected by embracing the indescribable. So sure, why not consider a half dead brain enhanced too? I'm seeing stars. Wow, groovy.

Well, I kind of understand the expressions put forth.

But, it's more about letting go of expectations and presumptions, memories of the past, and prejudicial thinking.

You can't abandon consciousness, unless you are knocked out, or dead.

You can let go of thinking things are a "certain way" and will "forever be" that certain way. I think you can allow things to "be the way they are" whilst attempting to "not color them" to be a certain way, based on past experience.