Merged Near Death Experience Study

[Skeptic Ginger]

Same study was done decades ago, and probably done more than once.

 

[Lanzy]

So the iron clad assumption is that the consciousness can float near the ceiling?

 

[marplots]

Can you explain with your current knowledge about consciousness how it is possible that many people, independent from eachother, have exactly the same "hallucination"=

Well, I can't. I do however understand that many people see the same illusions in these: http://www.illusions.org/

If we are largely constituted the same biologically, wouldn't you expect multiple people to have similar experiences in similar circumstances? I do.

You even get similar experiences when you give people the same drug: http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/dmt.html

 

[MaartenVergu]

I don't know. The scientific article says:
"The enhancement of mental
functioning at a time when
the brain is impaired is not
easily explained by
materialist models." (Bruce Greyson)

So, that's one of the conclusions of the scientists.

 

[MaartenVergu]

Distortions in the sense of time, acceleration of
thought, a life review or panoramic memory, and a sense
of revelation or sudden understanding. a sense of peace
and well-being, joy, a sense of cosmic unity, and an
encounter with a brilliant light that seems to radiate
unconditional love. Better hearing and seeing than normal.

Hmmm when a damaged brain can produce that, it's not bad at all. I would prefere it.

 

[Giordano]

Can you explain with your current knowledge about consciousness how it is possible that many people, independent from eachother, have exactly the same "hallucination"=

out-of body experience, they see their own body in a car f.e., a tunnel, a bright colorful light, feeling of unconditional love, feeling of great wisdom and understanding, no physical pain anymore, a flashforward of past live events and moral or ethical feelings, etc...

I don't think your current understanding of consciousness can explain the fact that these people, all over the world, with different back grounds had the same experience or 'hallucination'.

When people can tell about the same experience, independently from eachother, they talk about an objective reality. It's not subjective anymore.

Have you read that people from different cultures report different near death experiences, and that these are each consistent with what their own culture has told them to expect? I have learned to expect a tunnel and a white light. Other people have learned to expect Krishna. In fact, your own listing of these things above have helped me learn what to expect.

Actually, how did you learn these things independent of having a near-death experience yourself? What makes you think that other people haven't learned of these things before their own near-death experience? Why do you see these things as independent when it is so easy to learn of these experiences in others?

 

[MaartenVergu]

Have you read that people from different cultures report different near death experiences, and that these are each consistent with what their own culture has told them to expect? I have learned to expect a tunnel and a white light. Other people have learned to expect Krishna. In fact, your own listing of these things above have helped me learn what to expect.

Can you give me the source of your claim? Please give us the interviews with the people who experienced Krishna or others. Give us the study or the rapport.

Most near death experiences are having the same theme. They differ, but the main theme is the same.

What's the relationship of 'a bright light' with our culture? I don't see any necessary relationship.

One of the scientific articles says that some sceptics claim that it's because of a lack of of oxygen.

"One plausible physiological model attributes them to
decreased oxygen (hypoxia) or to a complete lack of
oxygen (anoxia), which appears to be the final common
pathway to death. However, hypoxia or anoxia generally
produce idiosyncratic,frightening hallucinations and lead
to agitation and belligerence, quite unlike the peaceful
near-death experience." (Bruce Greyson Phd.)

 

[Olowkow]

Pilots experience the symptoms of NDE, even in the training centrifuge under high G-force stress.

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers06.html

• G-LOC Characteristics in Common With NDEs
• 1. Tunnel vision / Bright light
• 2. Floating
• 3. Automatic movement
• 4. Autoscopy
• 5. Out-of-body experience
• 6. Not wanting to be disturbed
• 7. Paralysis
• 8. Vivid dreamlets / Beautiful places a. Euphoria b. Dissociation
• 9. Pleasurable
• 10. Psychologic state alteration
• 11. Friends / Family inclusion
• 12. Prior memories / Thoughts inclusion
• 13. Very memorable (when remembered)
• 14. Confabulation
• 15. Strong urge to understand

 

[Giordano]

Can you give me the source of your claim? Please give us the interviews with the people who experienced Krishna or others. Give us the study or the rapport.

Most near death experiences are having the same theme. They differ, but the main theme is the same.

What's the relationship of 'a bright light' with our culture? I don't see any necessary relationship.

One of the scientific articles says that some sceptics claim that it's because of a lack of of oxygen.

"One plausible physiological model attributes them to
decreased oxygen (hypoxia) or to a complete lack of
oxygen (anoxia), which appears to be the final common
pathway to death. However, hypoxia or anoxia generally
produce idiosyncratic,frightening hallucinations and lead
to agitation and belligerence, quite unlike the peaceful
near-death experience." (Bruce Greyson Phd.)

Here is the first article I found: http://www.pacifica.edu/gems/grothmarnat/CrossCulturalNDE.pdf

I chose it because it appears in a non-mainstream journal, and suggests some cross-cultural features, but it also emphasized that many of the characteristics you first presented are in fact cultural. It has references to other primary literature citations and studies if you also want those. Or you can just Google additional references that back up what I stated. I note that in contrast you cite a single individual (am I supposed to be impressed by his Ph.D.?) without listing any consensus scientific citations. If I pointed South, and said it was North, would you quote me also? (I have a Ph.D. too, but a bad sense of direction).

 

[Fellow Traveler]

I had a near death experience where I worked. Happily, it was over at quitting time.

 

[Bikewer]

I seem to recall that Randi had conducted a similar experiment with folks claiming to be able to "astral project". He placed a paper with a message in a basket suspended from the cieling of his offices. Anyone who claimed to be able to astral project was invited to float on in and read the message.... No one did.
One complaint was that the lights were not left on! So they obliged.....Still no winners.

 

[Frozenwolf150]

Distortions in the sense of time, acceleration of
thought, a life review or panoramic memory, and a sense
of revelation or sudden understanding. a sense of peace
and well-being, joy, a sense of cosmic unity, and an
encounter with a brilliant light that seems to radiate
unconditional love. Better hearing and seeing than normal.

Hmmm when a damaged brain can produce that, it's not bad at all. I would prefere it.

Uh, no you don't. Drug abuse can produce a similar experience in much the same way, by damaging brain cells. It's not a sign that everything is going well, but that the brain is so desperate that it'll do anything to calm itself.

 

[bruto]

An NDE cannot be explained by our current knowledge. The brain stops functioning, the cortex and the brainstem doesn't function at all. And these people have an enhanced consciousness. How can that be?

If you do not die, then perhaps your brain has not done what you think it has. Or perhaps memories are formed when one is waking back up. Before you ask how can that be, you sort of have to ask whether it is.

 

[PixyMisa]

The brain stops functioning, the cortex and the brainstem doesn't function at all.

That's not an NDE. That's a DE. No-one has reported anything following a DE, because they're D.

And these people have an enhanced consciousness.

There's no such thing, so no, they don't.

How can that be?

It's not.

 

[Octavo]

That's not an NDE. That's a DE. No-one has reported anything following a DE, because they're D.

They're not dead dead, they're mostly dead. Big difference.

 

[George]

They're not dead dead, they're mostly dead. Big difference.

Here's your ninepence.

 

[Giordano]

They're not dead dead, they're mostly dead. Big difference.

I thought he was just pining for the fjords...

 

[ExMinister]

Can you give me the source of your claim? Please give us the interviews with the people who experienced Krishna or others. Give us the study or the rapport.

Most near death experiences are having the same theme. They differ, but the main theme is the same.

What's the relationship of 'a bright light' with our culture? I don't see any necessary relationship.

One of the scientific articles says that some sceptics claim that it's because of a lack of of oxygen.

"One plausible physiological model attributes them to
decreased oxygen (hypoxia) or to a complete lack of
oxygen (anoxia), which appears to be the final common
pathway to death. However, hypoxia or anoxia generally
produce idiosyncratic,frightening hallucinations and lead
to agitation and belligerence, quite unlike the peaceful
near-death experience." (Bruce Greyson Phd.)

This is a fairly comprehensive overview of NDEs from a more skeptical perspective:

http://infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/HNDEs.html

There is an interesting section on cross-cultural NDEs. In part:

For instance, like Indian NDErs, Thai NDErs are far more likely to encounter religious figures than deceased friends and relatives: in 9 out of 10 accounts Thai NDErs met Yamatoots, messengers of the god of death Yama (Murphy, "Thailand" 164). And in half of the accounts Thai NDErs reported "being told that they were the wrong person, and being ordered back to life" (175). While deceased friends and relatives are sometimes encountered in Thai NDEs (in 4 of the 10 accounts), rather than greeting the NDEr (as in the West), they inform the NDEr "of the rules governing the afterlife" (175).

While OBEs are rather common early on in Western NDEs, being visited by a Yamatoot is "the most common initial phase" of Thai NDEs (170). Where OBEs do occur, "OBEs in Thai NDEs tend immediately to precede meetings with Yamatoots" (171). Tunnels are "largely absent in Thai NDEs" (with one exception unlike Western tunnel experiences), and feelings of peace or euphoria and experiences of light have not been reported at all (172). Thai NDErs are sometimes judged, but their deeds are recounted by reviewing written records of their lives or the testimony of others

 

[MaartenVergu]

These cultural differences can be different manifestations of the same essence.
Brahman, atman, god, universal awareness, tao,... The symbolic manifestations are different, but these can be manifestations of the same thing.

It's what Advaita Vedanta talks about, which talks about the illusion of this world (Maya) and how pure Brahman (Ultimate Reality) and Atman (True Self or Soul) are really one.
Learn about Advaitadvaitadvaitavada.

 

[Giordano]

These cultural differences can be different manifestations of the same essence.
Brahman, atman, god, universal awareness, tao,... The symbolic manifestations are different, but these can be manifestations of the same thing.

It's what Advaita Vedanta talks about, which talks about the illusion of this world (Maya) and how pure Brahman (Ultimate Reality) and Atman (True Self or Soul) are really one.
Learn about Advaitadvaitadvaitavada.

Did you read the citations that were provided? We are not talking about if you are greeted by Christ or by Yama (if you are Hindu) but if you are greeted by your dead relatives, or not. If these represent universal manifestations, then...