Merged Near Death Experience Study

[steenkh]

The physical body is bonded to the what I will call the "astral body" Think of it as your computer and your removable floppy disk. Your physical body is your hardware, the astral body is the floppy disk. The two are bonded at approx. three months of gestation and detach at death. Usually at death the astral body stay with the physical body until that body is dealt with either by burial or cremation.

Nice words, but you just made it all up with no evidence at all.

Telepathy is the universal means of communication, this is how the fetus in the womb communicates with his mother, this is how animals communicate, this is how god communicates. There is a threshold intensity like for light or sound. Everybody has it, although most are not aware of it. Sometimes you may think, "oh, just a hunch", not realizing that someone has telepathically communicated with you.

More purified nonsense. Nobody has ever been able to demonstrate telepathy. For at least 150 years parapsychologists have tried to do so, but have failed miserably for the simple reason that it is not there. It is particularly funny that you think animals communicates by telepathy because it is painfully obvious that they do not, or they would have been able to avoid getting eaten, and they certainly would not need to develop alarm calls. The predators would also have developed ways to hone in on the telepathic communications of their prey.

 

[dlorde]

Nice words, but you just made it all up with no evidence at all.


...It is particularly funny that you think animals communicates by telepathy because it is painfully obvious that they do not, or they would have been able to avoid getting eaten, and they certainly would not need to develop alarm calls. The predators would also have developed ways to hone in on the telepathic communications of their prey.

Exactly; if any of this nonsense was true, the world would be very different.

 

[turingtest]

Pim Van Lommel did research and said that the EEG was flat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3o0CSgGaBY0

That's not what I asked you; the question was "how do you (or Van Lommel) know they're doing the dreaming while the EEG is flat?"

 

[turingtest]

The big problem is: scientists cannot go there with their instruments. They can't investigate the tunnel, the light, the life review etc. It can only be investigated by people who went over there.
Therefore, it's not true, some scientists claim.

Non-sequitur. It's not because you can't investigate such realm that it does not exist. It's not because you can't go over there with your instruments that this dimension is not part of the world.
It's another dimension. A parallel universe. And the portal is consciousness.

Scientists can't go into the dreams, only the dreamers can; can you really not understand that this is what defines them as subjective experiences, not evidence for an "objective reality"? Dreams of flying are pretty common- is this evidence of an "objective reality" that the many folks who have this dream are actually flying?

 

[MaartenVergu]

I don't know wether it's true or not. Pim van Lommel said in the video that there was no EEG. I also wonder how he could investigate this. I hope some day doctors can verify this.

 

[Slowvehicle]

The big problem is: scientists cannot go there with their instruments. They can't investigate the tunnel, the light, the life review etc. It can only be investigated by people who went over there.
Therefore, it's not true, some scientists claim.

Non-sequitur. It's not because you can't investigate such realm that it does not exist. It's not because you can't go over there with your instruments that this dimension is not part of the world.
It's another dimension. A parallel universe. And the portal is consciousness.

A "parallel universe"...for which there is not a skerrick of a sniff of a suggestion of actual evidence...

 

[MaartenVergu]

The only "evidence" you can have is the independent testemony of people who have been there. That's all. You cannot go there with a camera or some instruments. No evidence as we know it. Independent testemonies of this 'place' is the only (poor) evidence we can have.

 

[Slowvehicle]

The only "evidence" you can have is the independent testemony of people who have been there. That's all. You cannot go there with a camera or some instruments. No evidence as we know it. Independent testemonies of this 'place' is the only (poor) evidence we can have.

No.

You have the "testimony" of people who claim to have "been" "there".

You have no evidence at all that there is, in fact, a "there" there.

...not a skerrick of a sniff of a suggestion of a hint of the possibility of actual evidence...

(What you have is anecdotes about what not dying is like.)

 

[mstricky]

Ok, I changed my post.

Here I write it again:

'an intruder or evil intruder in the room' is an interpretation of an observation.
I had sleepparalisys and the presence was not evil at all. It touched me and flew through my body. I felt this. It didn't harm me at all.
I was very calm and relaxed while I could not move. And my eyes were staring to a fixed point. I couldn't move them while I was hearing and feeling noises and moves in the room and on the sheets of my bed.

.

I too experienced that but I think it was a seizure. Some months after that I had a small stroke

 

[MaartenVergu]

Slowvehicle, why do believe that other people have dreams and images in their minds?
Because they 'claim' it. You accept their testimony as evidence.
So, it's the only thing we have: their testimony of this 'place'. It's evidence when they tell the same story, independent of each other.

 

[mstricky]

Slowvehicle, why do believe that other people have dreams and images in their minds?
Because they 'claim' it. You accept their testimony as evidence.
So, it's the only thing we have: their testimony of this 'place'. It's evidence when they tell the same story, independent of each other.

When I experienced sleep paralysis I felt as though something was holding me down even though I could move my arms then my body shook, I had a constant banging sound in my head which I thought was a neighbour trying to close his door; then, I felt something leave my body through my head. I am sure now that it was a seizure or a fit but at the time I thought it paranormal

 

[MaartenVergu]

i have my opinion and you may have another opinion of course. But I think, it may be another dimension. And no scientific instrument can go over there.

By the way, almost everybody talks about a bright and radiant Light,
Maybe the Cosmic Background Radiation IS the Creator. You can see it like that. Maybe the CBR is not only light. It's the First Cause.

 

[turingtest]

Slowvehicle, why do believe that other people have dreams and images in their minds? Because they 'claim' it. You accept their testimony as evidence.So, it's the only thing we have: their testimony of this 'place'. It's evidence when they tell the same story, independent of each other.

As evidence for the claim of the dream, not any objective reality behind it. The most common dream ("the same story, independent of each other") is of falling; this isn't evidence that the people experiencing the dream are actually falling.

 

[Donn]

..why do believe that other people have dreams and images in their minds?
Because they 'claim' it. You accept their testimony as evidence.

I'd say: because I also have dreams and images.

I accept their testimony as evidence that they have dreams and images. Not that those dreams and images are happening in some other weird universe.

 

[MaartenVergu]

Not that those dreams and images are happening in some other universe

When the content of the dream is exactly the same, in that case, it's not a dream anymore. It's a reality.

 

[Donn]

When the content of the dream is exactly the same, in that case, it's not a dream anymore. It's a reality.

I assume you mean the white light/tunnel dreams - well, no. You don't know these "dreams" where exactly the same. The stories, after telling and re-telling by authors and others, have been altered to seem the same.

Even if they were exact in every detail, all it would show is that under certain extreme conditions, minds experience certain physical events in a standard way.

Just like tripping and falling down stairs is the same for anyone who does it, so - perhaps - is the mind's motion-picture of dying.

 

[MaartenVergu]

Dr. Michael Sabom is a cardiologist whose book entitled Light and Death includes a detailed medical and scientific analysis of an amazing near-death experience of a woman named Pam Reynolds. She underwent a rare operation to remove a giant basilar artery aneurysm in her brain that threatened her life. The size and location of the aneurysm, however, precluded its safe removal using the standard neuro-surgical techniques. She was referred to a doctor who had pioneered a daring surgical procedure known as hypothermic cardiac arrest. It allowed Pam's aneurysm to be excised with a reasonable chance of success. This operation, nicknamed "standstill" by the doctors who perform it, required that Pam's body temperature be lowered to 60 degrees, her heartbeat and breathing stopped, her brain waves flattened, and the blood drained from her head. In everyday terms, she was put to death. After removing the aneurysm, she was restored to life. During the time that Pam was in standstill, she experienced a NDE. Her remarkably detailed veridical out-of-body observations during her surgery were later verified to be true. Her case is considered to be one of the strongest cases of veridical (i.e., verified) evidence in NDE research because of her ability to describe the unique surgical instruments, the surgical procedures used on her, and her ability to describe in detail these events while she was clinically brain dead.


You theorize that NDEs are produced by brain chemistry. But, Dr. Peter Fenwick, a neuropsychiatrist and the leading authority in Britain concerning NDEs, believes that these theories fall far short of the facts. In the documentary, "Into the Unknown: Strange But True," Dr. Fenwick describes the state of the brain during a NDE:

"The brain isn't functioning. It's not there. It's destroyed. It's abnormal. But, yet, it can produce these very clear experiences ... an unconscious state is when the brain ceases to function. For example, if you faint, you fall to the floor, you don't know what's happening and the brain isn't working. The memory systems are particularly sensitive to unconsciousness. So, you won't remember anything. But, yet, after one of these experiences [a NDE], you come out with clear, lucid memories ... This is a real puzzle for science. I have not yet seen any good scientific explanation which can explain that fact."
(source: NDE's while brain dead)

 

[mstricky]

Dr. Michael Sabom is a cardiologist whose book entitled Light and Death includes a detailed medical and scientific analysis of an amazing near-death experience of a woman named Pam Reynolds. She underwent a rare operation to remove a giant basilar artery aneurysm in her brain that threatened her life. The size and location of the aneurysm, however, precluded its safe removal using the standard neuro-surgical techniques. She was referred to a doctor who had pioneered a daring surgical procedure known as hypothermic cardiac arrest. It allowed Pam's aneurysm to be excised with a reasonable chance of success. This operation, nicknamed "standstill" by the doctors who perform it, required that Pam's body temperature be lowered to 60 degrees, her heartbeat and breathing stopped, her brain waves flattened, and the blood drained from her head. In everyday terms, she was put to death. After removing the aneurysm, she was restored to life. During the time that Pam was in standstill, she experienced a NDE. Her remarkably detailed veridical out-of-body observations during her surgery were later verified to be true. Her case is considered to be one of the strongest cases of veridical (i.e., verified) evidence in NDE research because of her ability to describe the unique surgical instruments, the surgical procedures used on her, and her ability to describe in detail these events while she was clinically brain dead.


You theorize that NDEs are produced by brain chemistry. But, Dr. Peter Fenwick, a neuropsychiatrist and the leading authority in Britain concerning NDEs, believes that these theories fall far short of the facts. In the documentary, "Into the Unknown: Strange But True," Dr. Fenwick describes the state of the brain during a NDE:

"The brain isn't functioning. It's not there. It's destroyed. It's abnormal. But, yet, it can produce these very clear experiences ... an unconscious state is when the brain ceases to function. For example, if you faint, you fall to the floor, you don't know what's happening and the brain isn't working. The memory systems are particularly sensitive to unconsciousness. So, you won't remember anything. But, yet, after one of these experiences [a NDE], you come out with clear, lucid memories ... This is a real puzzle for science. I have not yet seen any good scientific explanation which can explain that fact."
(source: NDE's while brain dead)

I totally believe in NDE and OBEs but its difficult for others that have not experienced them to believe. I say, so what? As long as I know what I believe and know what is real, I don't care what anyone else thinks. They are missing out

 

[MaartenVergu]

Yes you are right. But I think that people will change their minds when they read some reasonable arguments.
The AWARE study which was started in 2008 is a long-term project that aims to study the relationship between mind consciousness and brain in patients who undergo cardiac arrest and clinical death.

Very intresting project.

http://www.horizonresearch.org/main_page.php?cat_id=279
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US9cNuqbwOU

 

[MaartenVergu]

And about EEG: because there is no blood flowing into the brain during the cardiac arrest, during during clinical death, we can no longer measure electric activity in the brain. No blood, no electricity in the brain.