[Moderated] So What Would You Think If This Were True?

[DanKirby]

Essentially, we're once again dealing with "world's dumbest conspirators" syndrome.

These guys want us to believe that the evil genius conspirators had a damage path all set up beforehand, with busted lightpoles, internal Pentagon damage, etc. Then they flew the plane in THE WRONG WAY. And no one noticed.

How does that make ANY sense at all?

 

[mcMike]

Magnetic. This is from the header in the CSV file.
...and the last frame of data:

I wonder if PfT will issue an official retraction about the animation flightpath. I'm guessing no.

I wonder if this will explain the heading stuff. Did this a while ago in FDR77 thread. The official heading match perfectly to lightpole path.

I would like to see how plane can fly in 20-degree YAW . That is if someone is trying to suggest that green path.

 

[Kent1]

Lyte, since you say you're searching for the truth about the light poles, I assume you made the effort to speak with the people whose published accounts indicate that they witnessed what knocked them down.

Did you make that effort, Lyte? If so, please point out which of these people you contacted:

Steve Riskus: I could see the "American Airlines" logo...It knocked over a few light poles in its way.

Mark Bright: at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down.

Mike Walter: it clipped one of these light poles ... and slammed right into the Pentagon right there. It was an American Airlines jet.

Rodney Washington: knocking over light poles

Kirk Milburn: I heard a plane. I saw it. I saw debris flying. I guess it was hitting light poles

Afework Hagos: It hit some lampposts on the way in.

Kat Gaines: she saw a low-flying jetliner strike the top of nearby telephone poles

D.S. Khavkin: First, the plane knocked down a number of street lamp poles

Fourth time, Lyte: does Father McGraw believe that the plane that flew directly over him and resulted in the light pole hitting the cab

1) hit the Pentagon
2) did not hit the Pentagon

We await your answers, Seeker of Truth.

Here's more "spook" stuff:
Master Sgt. Noel Sepulveda, who received a Airman’s Medal and Purple Heart for his actions near the Pentagon:
"The plane’s right wheel struck a light pole, causing it to fly at a 45-degree angle, he said. The plane tried to recover, but hit a second light pole and continued flying at an angle. (Master Sgt. Dorothy Goepel Air Force Print News - April 15, 2002) (Of cource it may not of been a wheel)

See Penny Elgas
http://americanhistory.si.edu/september11/collection/record.asp?ID=28
This piece of a Boeing-757, American Airlines Flight 77, was torn from the plane as it clipped a light pole on approach to the Pentagon.

Wanda Ramey, stood at the Mall plaza booth and had an excellent view on the crash:
"I saw the wing of the plane clip the light post, and it made the plane slant.

Unnamed Navy admiral, who was walking outside the Pentagon:
"It was a good size jet aircraft. I saw it clip a light pole but keep coming and then slam into the front of the building." (Houston Chronicle - Lexis-Nexis - Michael Hedges)

The blue line also seems to conflict with the damage (angle) inside the Pentagon. This thread seems more like the last gasp of glory for the Pentagon CT'ers.

 

[stateofgrace]

I can prove the plane flew on the north side of the citgo.

You will have to concede I was right.

This will supercede all of your other questions.

I have no intentions of answering all of anybody's questions here nor do I claim to be able to.

I will present information when I am ready.

Really? Is that so?

Can I give you a suggestion? Maybe out of common courteously you should get in touch personally with all the families and friends of the victims that were on board Flight 77 and tell them all about your hush information. Tell them how you fear for your safety and you have crucial information that you are about to release into the public domain. Maybe you could give them hope that their loved ones may not have persisted in a dreadful plane crash.

Once you have done this get in touch with all the families of the people who perished inside the Pentagon and tell them the same.

Then get in touch with all those that had the dreadful task of clearing up the aftermath and tell them all about it.

If you are anything of a man and the researcher you claim to be, you will do this out of respect for the people you claim to speak for. You will do it today and before you release your explosive information.

Do it.

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/tra...7.victims.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...e-pentagon.htm

YOU, I hold responsible for doing this.

 

[Jocce]

Gosh, I've been following this from the sidelines for a while and this thread must be the most confusing so far. If I understand correctly, S4S is basically asking "If it was proven beyond reasonable doubt that what happened really didn't happen, would you believe it?"

Well duh...

Though I can't really imagine a couple of witness accounts 5 years after outweighting the amount of physical evidence and other witness accounts, I'm eagerly awaiting this mysterious new evidence.

 

[Skeptic4Sure]

Lyte, since you say you're searching for the truth about the light poles, I assume you made the effort to speak with the people whose published accounts indicate that they witnessed what knocked them down.

Did you make that effort, Lyte? If so, please point out which of these people you contacted:

Steve Riskus: I could see the "American Airlines" logo...It knocked over a few light poles in its way.

Mark Bright: at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down.

Mike Walter: it clipped one of these light poles ... and slammed right into the Pentagon right there. It was an American Airlines jet.

Rodney Washington: knocking over light poles

Kirk Milburn: I heard a plane. I saw it. I saw debris flying. I guess it was hitting light poles

Afework Hagos: It hit some lampposts on the way in.

Kat Gaines: she saw a low-flying jetliner strike the top of nearby telephone poles

D.S. Khavkin: First, the plane knocked down a number of street lamp poles

Fourth time, Lyte: does Father McGraw believe that the plane that flew directly over him and resulted in the light pole hitting the cab

1) hit the Pentagon
2) did not hit the Pentagon

We await your answers, Seeker of Truth.

Yes, we already covered those, Super Omnipotent Debunker.

Which one of those specifically said that they ACTUALLY saw the plane knock down light poles? Hmmm??????

That is called deduction. Like you deducing that they actually saw it.

 

[apathoid]

Okay, this is what I get from the flight data recorder heading of 70 magnetic, adjusted to 59.5 from true north:

http://opendb.com/images/pentagon.jpg

Looks pretty close to the "official" path to me.

Yup, and it kinda confirms what I've been thinking. It would be a tad more intruiging if the official flight path went directly over the Citgo because these witnesses of Lytes saw it from the side(unless they were standing in the grass) instead of seeing it right overhead. It seems to me they are just mistaken as to which side it was on. Like I said, if the "official" flight path was right on top of the Citgo, it wouldnt be on either side so the witnesses would likely say "it was directly overhead"....or something to that effect.

 

[uk_dave]

You mean you see a plane fly along a certain path and into the wall of a building and subsequently when you see a load of lightpoles knocked over along this path you deduce that the plane had also hit those?

I think I would say that was a pretty good deduction.

 

[apathoid]

That is called deduction. Like you deducing that they actually saw it.

Like you deducing they didnt actually see it without interviewing them..

 

[Skeptic4Sure]

Here's more "spook" stuff:
Master Sgt. Noel Sepulveda, who received a Airman’s Medal and Purple Heart for his actions near the Pentagon:
"The plane’s right wheel struck a light pole, causing it to fly at a 45-degree angle, he said. The plane tried to recover, but hit a second light pole and continued flying at an angle. (Master Sgt. Dorothy Goepel Air Force Print News - April 15, 2002) (Of cource it may not of been a wheel)

See Penny Elgas
http://americanhistory.si.edu/september11/collection/record.asp?ID=28
This piece of a Boeing-757, American Airlines Flight 77, was torn from the plane as it clipped a light pole on approach to the Pentagon.

Wanda Ramey, stood at the Mall plaza booth and had an excellent view on the crash:
"I saw the wing of the plane clip the light post, and it made the plane slant.

Unnamed Navy admiral, who was walking outside the Pentagon:
"It was a good size jet aircraft. I saw it clip a light pole but keep coming and then slam into the front of the building." (Houston Chronicle - Lexis-Nexis - Michael Hedges)

The blue line also seems to conflict with the damage (angle) inside the Pentagon. This thread seems more like the last gasp of glory for the Pentagon CT'ers.

Yeah you're late too.

We covered all this. Wanda Ramey is the only one who said she saw the wing clip the pole. And I know for a fact, that another DPS said they saw the pole get clipped and this wasn't true.

Sepulveda goes on about a landing gear. Disqualified.

Unnamed Navy Admiral: Disqualified.

Did Peggy ACTUALLY see that at 530 mph or did she deduce it afterwards?

Where is the critical thinking I hear so much about here?

So without you actually getting off your ass and actually interviewing people, you're no different than a CT just wilding posting anything without studying the information.

 

[apathoid]

I wonder if this will explain the heading stuff. Did this a while ago in FDR77 thread. The official heading match perfectly to lightpole path.

I would like to see how plane can fly in 20-degree YAW . That is if someone is trying to suggest that green path.

I think they are suggesting that those stupid, yet clever, conspirators faked the FDR heading to match the official path, yet managed to botch the pressure altitude data.

 

[Skeptic4Sure]

Like you deducing they didnt actually see it without interviewing them..

Oh no darling, that is not the way it works.

Where does it specifically say they saw the plane clip the light poles? We have proven a case for deduction in our own interviews, and the argument of deduction is used in cross examining where testimony is being clarified and detailed under oath.

 

[apathoid]

Oh no darling, that is not the way it works.

Where does it specifically say they saw the plane clip the light poles? We have proven a case for deduction in our own interviews, and the argument of deduction is used in cross examining where testimony is being clarified and detailed under oath.

It isnt? I read the quotes and they mentioned the plane hitting the light poles. You see, there is no way to deduce that they deduced this unless you interview these specific people and they tell you that they deduced this.

I am guessing that none of the people named above will be in this shocking new video...I wonder why. Sheesh

I am also betting that Lyte cut the footage of the witnesses mentioning an impact with the Pentagon. He assured me above that the interviews will be in their entirety, but I somehow doubt it.

 

[Skeptic4Sure]

It isnt? I read the quotes and they mentioned the plane hitting the light poles. You see, there is no way to deduce that they deduced this unless you interview these specific people and they tell you that they deduced this.

I am guessing that none of the people named above will be in this shocking new video...I wonder why. Sheesh

I am also betting that Lyte cut the footage of the witnesses mentioning an impact with the Pentagon. He assured me above that the interviews will be in their entirety, but I somehow doubt it.

Yeah read em again. I think your night vision is a little off.

You're simply playing games. When YOU can go out and interview them and get them to say that they witnesses it, then we can talk. But those accounts are plain as day and we have enough evidence that proves they ARE deducing it.

Bet all you want, you are in for a big surprise. You are not dealing with Dylan Avery my feathery friend.

Edited by Lisa Simpson: 

inappropriate image removed

 

[apathoid]

You're simply playing games. When YOU can go out and interview them and get them to say that they witnesses it, then we can talk. But those accounts are plain as day and we have enough evidence that proves they ARE deducing it.

So, you guys didn't interview all the folks listed above?

If you had, and they told you they saw the poles get clipped by the airplane, then what would you deduce?

 

[stateofgrace]

Yes, we already covered those, Super Omnipotent Debunker.

Which one of those specifically said that they ACTUALLY saw the plane knock down light poles? Hmmm??????

That is called deduction. Like you deducing that they actually saw it.

Steve Riskus: I could see the "American Airlines" logo...It knocked over a few light poles in its way.

Mark Bright: at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down.

Mike Walter: it clipped one of these light poles ... and slammed right into the Pentagon right there. It was an American Airlines jet.


Kirk Milburn: I heard a plane. I saw it. I saw debris flying. I guess it was hitting light poles

Afework Hagos: It hit some lampposts on the way in.

Kat Gaines: she saw a low-flying jetliner strike the top of nearby telephone poles

D.S. Khavkin: First, the plane knocked down a number of street lamp poles.



ALL OF THEM.

 

[apathoid]

ALL OF THEM.

You just dont understand, sog.

You see, they have witnesses who said they deduced that the poles were clipped, but didnt actually see them get hit. As it happens, these very accounts also make it impossible for AA77 to have actually clipped the poles since it was on the wrong side of the Citgo. Therefore, the folks above must've deduced that the poles were clipped by the airplane they saw....

 

[stateofgrace]

You just dont understand, sog.

You see, they have witnesses who said they deduced that the poles were clipped, but didnt actually see them get hit. As it happens, these very accounts also make it impossible for AA77 to have actually clipped the poles since it was on the wrong side of the Citgo. Therefore, the folks above must've deduced that the poles were clipped by the airplane they saw....

I know it's just dreadful when small things like facts get in the way of their fantasies.

 

[twinstead]

You're simply playing games. When YOU can go out and interview them and get them to say that they witnesses it, then we can talk. But those accounts are plain as day and we have enough evidence that proves they ARE deducing it.

Now this is TOTAL bs. These people are on record as actually witnessing these events. If you want to claim they are just deducing it, then it is up to you to interview them.

What? You mean you didn't interview ANY of these people who claim to have seen a plane clip the lamp posts?

What kind of idiotic investigation is that? The eye witness record of that day is pretty overwhelmingly consistent with the official story. In order to claim otherwise, you would certainly need to know why that is, don't you think?

 

[Skeptic4Sure]

Oh yes, because it said so on the internet, so they must have saw it. So when Kirk Milburn said "I guess it hit some light poles". He was positively stating that he saw the light poles get clipped?

You guys are no different than the CT's you bash.

You are going to learn a lot about witnesses and what they do.

The plane came on the North side. This is why we now know who is deducing and who is exaggerating or lying.

You people don't, because you are content with "i guess it hit some light poles"

That is your world.