Mass shooting in small town Texas

[portlandatheist]

People will always die in car accidents. Therefore, what is the point of ABS brakes, seat belts, air bags, guard rails, tempered glass, licensing and registration, street lighting and all this other nonsense trying to prevent something we cannot stop?

 

[PhantomWolf]

How about this idea....

You want to own or buy guns and ammo, then you apply at the local Police Station/NRA Office/Gunshop, and have a Federal Background Check Card, valid for 5 years unless the conditions are violated. The local police keep a record of who has a currently valid card so they are aware if they have to deal with that person in a way that invalidates the card, that they can remove it for violation of the conditions. The conditions are already spelled out in the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Then whenever you want to trade, sell, buy, etc weapons, all you have to do is show your valid BG Check card and away you go. No card, no sale. This would prevent the whole private sale and trade show no BG checks loophole, and save gun owners money because they don't have to get a BG check every time they want to but a new gun, rather it's always sitting in their back pocket.

 

[logger]

You are right, I don't understand.

I don't understand how America accepts a murder rate of 4.88/100,000 when in the Anglosphere Canada has a rate of 1.68/100,000, the UK has a rate of 0.92/100,000 and Australia has a rate of 0.98/100,000.

Accepts a murder rate? That is adorable, but obviously not reality!

 

[logger]

Try not to step in the brains of the five-year-old child victim of this shooting on your way to the range next time.

I won’t, partly because I have my own range.

 

[Kestrel]

Internet is saying the killer was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force. I believe that would bar him from being able to buy a gun legally. Be interesting to find out which illegal route he took to acquire a weapon.

Private sale. In most states there is no background check and no record of the sale.

Congress voted against closing this loophole after Sandy Hook because the NRA wants to keep it open.

 

[logger]

Someone come get me if we ever get to that brief window when we can talk about preventing these things and people still give enough of a **** to have a conversation.

Because not politicizing these events has such a great track record of not ending up with more walls being decorated with peoples' brains.

You post some stupid thing about me somehow stepping on a child’s brains, then complain about not being able to have a conversation? ******* amazing!

 

[Dr.Sid]

How about this idea....

You want to own or buy guns and ammo, then you apply at the local Police Station/NRA Office/Gunshop, and have a Federal Background Check Card, valid for 5 years unless the conditions are violated. The local police keep a record of who has a currently valid card so they are aware if they have to deal with that person in a way that invalidates the card, that they can remove it for violation of the conditions. The conditions are already spelled out in the Gun Control Act of 1968.

Then whenever you want to trade, sell, buy, etc weapons, all you have to do is show your valid BG Check card and away you go. No card, no sale. This would prevent the whole private sale and trade show no BG checks loophole, and save gun owners money because they don't have to get a BG check every time they want to but a new gun, rather it's always sitting in their back pocket.

Not good enough. You also need licenses for every gun. Having gun you don't have license for must be illegal. License owner must also be called responsible for the gun, and must be able to present it for inspection at any time. No grandfathering. No borrowing. If somebody looses right to have guns, police must know what guns he has, and he has to sell them, or face confiscation.

It's how it works here in Czech Republic. Besides that you are not limited much in what you can have. At the moment the gun owner license is for life though. There are new proposals to renew it every 5 years, because of mental health (there was one shooting caused by guy who was mentally ill but owned guns legally).

But then most pro-gun people in US are afraid even of that, as in Australia registration indeed preceded global ban and confiscation. Lots of pro-gun people also think they need guns to defend against government, and as such they don't want the government to know what guns they have as a principle.

Anyway I think the registration system would be passable at least in some states.

 

[Ranb]

Private sale. In most states there is no background check and no record of the sale.

Still illegal. We all know guns are available illegally, but the subject was legally acquiring the firearm.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=12063827#post12063827

 

[Ranb]

That's like saying criminals will always have bombs, therefore we should make it legal to build and possess bombs.

It is legal to build and possess bombs; what are you getting at?

 

[Noztradamus]

People will always die in car accidents. Therefore, what is the point of ABS brakes, seat belts, air bags, guard rails, tempered glass, licensing and registration, street lighting and all this other nonsense trying to prevent something we cannot stop?

Simple solution would be to ban cars

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Internet is saying the killer was dishonorably discharged from the Air Force. I believe that would bar him from being able to buy a gun legally. ....

A dishonorable discharge comes with a felony conviction. But is that the kind of discharge he received?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

If anyone says it's too soon, sure, but it's time to discuss gun regulation in light of the Vegas shooting.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Not good enough. You also need licenses for every gun. Having gun you don't have license for must be illegal. License owner must also be called responsible for the gun, and must be able to present it for inspection at any time. No grandfathering. No borrowing. If somebody looses right to have guns, police must know what guns he has, and he has to sell them, or face confiscation.

The question here is what issues do you think this would resolve that a BG Check Card would not? Just because someone has a lot of guns doesn't mean that they are likely to be a greater threat. You response seems to be more a solution in search of a problem rather than a solution to the problem at hand.

But then most pro-gun people in US are afraid even of that, as in Australia registration indeed preceded global ban and confiscation. Lots of pro-gun people also think they need guns to defend against government, and as such they don't want the government to know what guns they have as a principle.

Australia didn't have a registration proceeding a global ban and confiscation. In fact today Australia had more guns in private hands than it did prior to the Port Arthur Massacre. What Australia did was bring in total bans for certain types of guns, and introduced the system of "show you have a need for it" to own a gun. Also the law change wasn't in response to registration, but rather the Port Arthur Shootings, similar to how Britain reacted to Dunblane and New Zealand did to the Aramoana shootings. In all three cases most people willing handed in guns they were unable to get licenced or hold onto legally because they were as appalled as everyone else and decided to act on it telling their Governments to pass the laws. The Governments didn't act unilaterally.

Anyway I think the registration system would be passable at least in some states.

I think it's overkill for the problem, and one that would be resisted to the highest levels. Better to go with something that will work but is far less controversial.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Simple solution would be to ban cars

The solution is also made of straw, apparently.

 

[Dr.Sid]

The question here is what issues do you think this would resolve that a BG Check Card would not? Just because someone has a lot of guns doesn't mean that they are likely to be a greater threat. You response seems to be more a solution in search of a problem rather than a solution to the problem at hand.

BG check card only solves the moment of the sale. It's no different to today's background check. If you loose your right to have guns, you will still be able to keep the guns you already have. Also nothing prevents you from buying then guns and selling them to people who do not have right to own them.
Gun registration solves all that.

I think it's overkill for the problem, and one that would be resisted to the highest levels. Better to go with something that will work but is far less controversial.

Like what ?

 

[Noztradamus]

Australia didn't have a registration proceeding a global ban and confiscation. In fact today Australia had more guns in private hands than it did prior to the Port Arthur Massacre. What Australia did was bring in total bans for certain types of guns, and introduced the system of "show you have a need for it" to own a gun. Also the law change wasn't in response to registration, but rather the Port Arthur Shootings, similar to how Britain reacted to Dunblane and New Zealand did to the Aramoana shootings. In all three cases most people willing handed in guns they were unable to get licenced or hold onto legally because they were as appalled as everyone else and decided to act on it telling their Governments to pass the laws. The Governments didn't act unilaterally.


.

For certain definitions of the term unilaterally

 

[Civet]

A dishonorable discharge comes with a felony conviction. But is that the kind of discharge he received?

CBS confirms a dishonorable discharge. Wasn't sure at first since I was mostly seeing the claim on dodgy social media postings.

 

[BStrong]

Private sale. In most states there is no background check and no record of the sale.

Congress voted against closing this loophole after Sandy Hook because the NRA wants to keep it open.

California requires all sales to be conducted through an FFL dealer with a BGC on both parties, a ten day waiting period before the firearm can be transferred to the buyer and the person receiving the firearm must have a state issued safety certificate and take and pass a dealer conducted "safe handling test" before taking possession of the firearm. The buyer must either be provided with a state approved safety lock by the seller or purchase same from the FFL dealer as a condition of legal possession. The buyer isn't even allowed to bring in a safety lock already in their possession - one has to leave with the firearm to ensure that it has one of it's very own - and this even includes old farts like me that have multiple safes to store gear.

I'm all for a system requiring all transfers to be conducted through a dealer w/ a 4473 and a BCG (of the instant Fed NICS variety) but the California circus act doesn't have any utility past making folks feel that by having the extra loops to jump through it "might" do some good in keeping guns out of the wrong hands.

 

[Hopeful Parallel]

This is scary! Perhaps a gun control must be implemented. I can't imagine that 26 people were killed and 20 wounded in a mass shooting at a church in a small town outside Texas. Prayers for the victims!

 

[BStrong]

BG check card only solves the moment of the sale. It's no different to today's background check. If you loose your right to have guns, you will still be able to keep the guns you already have. Also nothing prevents you from buying then guns and selling them to people who do not have right to own them.
Gun registration solves all that.


Like what ?

Not in America.

Here's the California program that addresses prohibited class persons with firearms registered in their name:

https://oag.ca.gov/system/files/attachments/press_releases/n2521_apps_fact_sheet.pdf

Below is the statute that the feds can apply to a prohibited person in possession of a firearm. Unfortunately I could never interest the U.S. Attorney's office in prosecuting someone we had in custody that was a convicted felon with an illegal firearm. I'd like to think that if word got around that a felon w/ a sawed off shotgun was facing a potential 20 year sentence (If consecutively sentenced on the two separate violations) and a half million dollar fine, certain folks might not be inclined to behave badly in my jurisdiction.

http://www.rip.uscourts.gov/rip/supervision/firearmpossession/FirearmPossessionProhibition.pdf

Unfortunately, here under state law, a felon with that sawed off might only face being remanded to custody if they were on parole or probation, and might at most face 30 months inside if there wasn't other crimes (robbery or assault) involved.