Mass shooting in small town Texas

[Ranb]

There are other controls such as zoning and DOT regs. I'd need to update my garage before the ATF would approve my application I think.

 

[PhantomWolf]

BG check card only solves the moment of the sale. It's no different to today's background check. If you loose your right to have guns, you will still be able to keep the guns you already have.

If you violate the conditions of the BG Check card and void it then when the police were dealing with that they could also remove any fire arms from the premises, not that hard to put in place. It's supposed to be done now, it's just a matter of making sure it is enforced.

Also nothing prevents you from buying then guns and selling them to people who do not have right to own them.

Selling a gun to someone without a BG Card would be illegal, they get caught they get jailed.

Gun registration solves all that.

So does proper enforcement of the current rules with a little bit extra added.

Like what ?

Like a BG Check Card and enforcement of the current laws.

 

[Ranb]

As a whole, yes, the WWII Japanese were responsible. They agree, and felt so responsible that they changed their Constitution to reflect it.

As far as I know their present constitution was imposed upon them. From what I read they wanted something that was nearly the status quo, but they got something else. I don't have a link.

 

[BStrong]

I find that, while not necessarily terrifying, then at least worrying. I don't want to live next door to a person who's manufacturing explosives. I'd like that to be done on dedicated hardened premises that are a long way from population centres.

Remember the risk formula: possibility of something happening times the consequences of something happening. The chance of something going wrong with explosives manufacture may be small, but the consequences of a bomb going off in my next-door neighbour's garage is extremely worrying.

Yes, which is why I found it totally believable that people in America might be making explosives in their garages.

Again, this is the kind of thing (firearm manufacture) that I would prefer not go on in heavily-populated areas.

Why would the use of a lathe, a milling machine and precision measuring tools and various types of jigs be of concern to you?

 

[BStrong]

As far as I know their present constitution was imposed upon them. From what I read they wanted something that was nearly the status quo, but they got something else. I don't have a link.

Not to mention the two nukes it took to even get to that point.

 

[Reheat]

Why would the use of a lathe, a milling machine and precision measuring tools and various types of jigs be of concern you to you?

Look at the body of work. There are people with hoplophabia. There quite a few here with that affliction.

 

[arthwollipot]

Why would the use of a lathe, a milling machine and precision measuring tools and various types of jigs be of concern to you?

They aren't. The fact that they are being used to manufacture firearms is of concern to me.

Obviously.

 

[Arcade22]

Is that like all Japanese are responsible for atrocities committed by the Imperial Japanese army in China?

Sure. People are collectively responsible for the society they live in. Indifference and passivity is consent. By standing idle to the oppression and brutality that the Japanese military committing in China and elsewhere they not only passively consented to it but indirectly supported it.

Similarly people who stand (and stood) idly by while homosexuals are oppressed are responsible for that repression too. Likewise those that tolerate people who arm themselves for war, only with minimal safeguards, and the watch as they turn their weapons on their fellow country men.

 

[thaiboxerken]

As far as I know their present constitution was imposed upon them.

Which means the allies thought the WWII Japanese were responsible for the atrocities that the Imperial Army committed.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Now, if you want to stop the vast majority of illegal guns instead of punishing legitimate and responsible gun owners, stop straw purchases.

Well there is a way to stop Straw Purchases, but gun owners would throw a fit.

Set up a blind database that has the buyer of a gun entered into it and also tracks change of ownership a bit like cars. Allow the police to access the data using the serial number of a weapon to locate the registered owner of any weapon they find in the possession of anyone that is not allowed to have a firearm, and if it was not reported stolen then throw the book at them both. Also throw the book at gun stores that knowingly allow a straw purchase.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

CBS confirms a dishonorable discharge. Wasn't sure at first since I was mostly seeing the claim on dodgy social media postings.

Interesting because CNN reported it was bad conduct discharge:

Kelley received a bad conduct discharge, confinement for 12 months and a reduction in rank, she said. The Air Force did not provide a date of the discharge.

Sounds like they might be almost the same.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

With regards to cars / trucks being used as terrorist devices, at least here in the Netherlands, that has actually led to actions being undertaken. A lot of areas that would be obvious targets (airports, squares in major cities etc) are getting large, concrete structures with gaps not wide enough for cars to go trough.
Yes, it curtails ones freedom to quickly park somewhere illegal to drop off a passenger because parking rules only apply to other people, but it does increase safety.

I, like many others, never understood why in so many US states the concept of responsibility is considered so evil.
If you want guns, you need (regular) checks to show you have the legal weapons and responsibility to own them. And if you cannot show the correct permits and documentation of the weapons you have you get arrested and the weapons taken away.

This should not impact the responsible owners in any way more than similar rules already in place for owning a car.

 

[Elagabalus]

Look at the body of work. There are people with hoplophabia. There quite a few here with that affliction.

Look, if you want to blow yourself up - go for it. If instead you blow yourself up and burn my house down in the process ...

 

[arthwollipot]

Well there is a way to stop Straw Purchases, but gun owners would throw a fit.

Set up a blind database that has the buyer of a gun entered into it and also tracks change of ownership a bit like cars. Allow the police to access the data using the serial number of a weapon to locate the registered owner of any weapon they find in the possession of anyone that is not allowed to have a firearm, and if it was not reported stolen then throw the book at them both. Also throw the book at gun stores that knowingly allow a straw purchase.

Oh no! You couldn't do that! That would inevitably lead to door-to-door confiscations and Nazis!

The Nazis are already back, BTW. And they have guns.

 

[Reheat]

Well there is a way to stop Straw Purchases, but gun owners would throw a fit.

Set up a blind database that has the buyer of a gun entered into it and also tracks change of ownership a bit like cars. Allow the police to access the data using the serial number of a weapon to locate the registered owner of any weapon they find in the possession of anyone that is not allowed to have a firearm, and if it was not reported stolen then throw the book at them both. Also throw the book at gun stores that knowingly allow a straw purchase.

Yea, that's registration, all right. It certainly wouldn't be fair to "throw the book" at gun stores because there's no way to prove they knew it was a straw purchase.

I don't believe any type of registration would ever pass either branch of Congress because anyone who voted for it would be out of office in most states.

BTW, maybe you don't know, but Illinois has what amounts to gun registration and the largest city in IL is the murder capital of the US.

 

[Reheat]

This should not impact the responsible owners in any way more than similar rules already in place for owning a car.

Owning a car in the US is not a Constitutional Right, owning a firearm is.

The barriers you reference are used all over the world, but it's pretty expensive and obtrusive to have them everywhere. Not practical for a private business to be required to erect them.

 

[BStrong]

Well there is a way to stop Straw Purchases, but gun owners would throw a fit.

Set up a blind database that has the buyer of a gun entered into it and also tracks change of ownership a bit like cars. Allow the police to access the data using the serial number of a weapon to locate the registered owner of any weapon they find in the possession of anyone that is not allowed to have a firearm, and if it was not reported stolen then throw the book at them both. Also throw the book at gun stores that knowingly allow a straw purchase.

We've got one, at least for N.F.A. weapons and devices, The National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-3/download

With less than one million registered items to properly record and track, their database is in bad shape - from an OIG survey of ATF compliance inspectors - The agents tasked with checking the licensed dealers:

https://armsandthelaw.com/BATF OIG survenys on NFA best.pdf

Analysis of Q12 Affect IOI - How do errors and discrepancies in NFRTR inventory reports affect your ability to carry out compliance inspections?

Responses to Q12 (not mutually exclusive)
• Out of 297 total responses:

o 53 indicated there was no disruption to the inspection process.

o 75 indicated the errors called into question the accuracy of the information
from the NFRTR.

o 127 stated their efficiency was affected and the inspection took more time
to perform.

o 48 stated it was more difficult to plan and complete the inspection.

o 12 stated follow-up work was required after the inspection.

o 32 indicated N/A, or they had not encountered errors in this situation.

o 1 stated the only errors he had encountered were on the part of the FFL.

From the open-ended comments, and remember, these are ATF agents making these statements:

“Errors and discrepancies make ATF, as a whole, look inept. These are extremely important records and our own NFA Branch can't even get it right. It takes extra hour(s) to rectify these problems, and sometimes we find out 1-2 years down the road on the next inspection that the corrections we forwarded to the NFA Branch aren't even taken care of by
the next inspection.”

“It is hard to verify any NFA inventory when the "official" NFRTR record is inaccurate.I have had to rely on the licensee's records over the NFRTR record in the past.”

If ATF can't keep the records straight on less than a million registrations the possibility of a successful program for 300 million + firearms is slim to none.

Canada decided to got the total registration route and they were smart enough to call it a day when the costs kept going up even before the program was fully implemented.

The 4473 form system works, and if all transfers were required to go through an FFL the idea of a more tractable tracing program would be in effect without trying to build some central registry system at the fed. level. In any case, it's the individual States business, not the feds.

 

[Reheat]

Look, if you want to blow yourself up - go for it. If instead you blow yourself up and burn my house down in the process ...

Get a grip! The discussion and reference was about firearms, not explosives. There is nothing about building a firearm or silencer or other accessories that's a danger to anyone nearby. Please pay attention before responding.

 

[Reheat]

Good guy with a gun did intervene

Looks like a nearby resident did intervene. Just not soon enough to prevent the slaughter, but likely prevented further bloodshed...

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/05/us/texas-church-shooting-resident-action/index.html

 

[Checkmite]

Honestly not sure how much blood was actually left in the church to shed by that point.