Loose Change - Part III

[Grundar]

Grundar, hope you don't mind but I quoted your post over there, gave you the credit for the find.

Thanks for the help.

You're welcome i only lurk over there anyway.

/Hans

 

[Brainster]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7186061015080818639

Again, hardly a ringing endorsement, and while the odds are that in the 5 years since, any number of construction workers have "died from lung disease" even the ones who never worked at ground zero.

Here's an article which indicates that there may be something to the "lung disease" issue.

History tells us to be cautious on these things; I don't believe in Gulf War Syndrome, for example. But there are lots of reasons to believe that the air quality was very unhealthy in the immediate aftermath of the collapse of the towers, not the least of which is all the asbestos.

 

[Mancman]

New thread over at LC. Think it's rather indicative of their preconceived mindset and how they simply refuse to believe the government wasn't behind 9/11.

Nothing to do with facts/science/etc....

They just don't wanna...

Edit: ... forgot the darn link.

Sounds like an interesting study, and unfortunately more material for the CTers to twist into support for their theory. It seems to be a study of purely how fires spread and not a study of how long it will take the building to collapse. For a start, as a piece of 1960s British social housing, the tower will almost certainly (99.9%) be a reinforced concrete structure and contain no steel whatsoever.

I highly doubt the researchers want the building to fall down considering they'd lose 'hundreds of pounds of sophisticated equipment'. And when it doesn't fall, the CTers will go ga-ga.

 

[Gravy]

At the nineelevenUK forum they relegated me to a new "critics corner," so I bid them adieu. Guess their mods weren't so open-minded after all.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=8746&st=30

...But it apparently went right over their heads...

The devil works for God so i dont know why people think hes so great.If im not mistaken devil worshiping loser cultists do alot of gay activity am i wrong loonybin?Not that theres anything wrong with being gay like loony and his boyfriend corbin from JREF loser cult website.
Im still waiting for you to post one time you ever agreed with anyone.I hope they ban you and corbin.
I went to that website before it sucked.No evidence to back up anything all just alot of bla bla bla im smarter than everyone bla bla.
Even if we listed 650 names you wouldnt agree that any of them were credible in your infinite wisdom.What is it you do for a living again to make you so insanly smart?Oh thats right you worship satan my bad.Satan is a little biatch.Anyone who follows him is exactly the same.

Well, now who could argue with that?

 

[kookbreaker]

Well, now who could argue with that?

Who could even read that?

 

[T.A.M.]

9/11 Lung Illnesses

I don't even bother to try to sign up at those places, knowing they will block me or turf me the minute i bang out a comment that isn't metaphorically performing oral on good old D.A. over there.

As for the lung disease issue, I agree that there may be some credibility to workers on the 9/11 site contracting "lung disease". "Lung Disease" can encompass so many things, but they are likely referring to interstitial lung diseases similiar to asbestosis, or acute alveolitis/pneumonitis similar to farmers lung, etc... which can lead to ILD. These diseases do tend to come from chronic exposure to toxins in the air, but some studies have show than in some cases of extreme exposure (super high levels) that the time of exposure required does not have to be that long. This is especially true of Farmer's Lung and Pigeon Fancier's Lung, which are acute, often allergic type reactions to said chemicals in the small elements of the lung tissue.

 

[60hzxtl]

Here's an article which indicates that there may be something to the "lung disease" issue.

History tells us to be cautious on these things; I don't believe in Gulf War Syndrome, for example. But there are lots of reasons to believe that the air quality was very unhealthy in the immediate aftermath of the collapse of the towers, not the least of which is all the asbestos.

No argument that there was a lot of bad stuff in the air, and there ARE people who have health problems, and a FEW have died. But it has become o political football - studies, funds, surveys, etc. I worked down there from day 5 (and on day 7 or 8 started to hear kook stuff.) The people who got the worst inhalants ran in early, and didn't wring their hands and worry, they rolled up their sleeves and dug in. People in the pile were given respirators, and some even wore them. Offices still have huge hepa filters, and the post office across the street was kept closed until recently.

What I questioned was the implication that there was a plague of people keeling over; compare construction workers - demo people from anywhere with the ground zero people. How do they compare health wise?

Or the next conspiracy is the ignoring of the workers because of the secret stuff that was at ground zero.

First hand knowledge here: And as far as that safe with the "gold"? Opening it was a low priority, and it was mostly inaccessible for a long time. So the NYPD put a video camera on it. There were tool marks on the door when owners did get to it. Lots of tools available at a demo site. Lots of people know how to use them.

 

[T.A.M.]

Ok, I've figured it out. This is why D.A. and the crowd are so convinced on the gold issue.

I think they have a theory that the same little green men who planted the explosives in the wtc over 2-3 months, are also the ones who took all the gold (40 Million pounds according to the monetary value LC tells us) out.

Just like it took months for the leprechans to plant the bombs, so it took them that same amount of time to remove the gold...go in with explosives in your little sack, come out with a sack of gold...

 

[Brainster]

At the nineelevenUK forum they relegated me to a new "critics corner," so I bid them adieu. Guess their mods weren't so open-minded after all.

I have come to the conclusion that the only point of arguing with the conspiracy theorists is for the benefit of onlookers. There is no real chance of changing minds that have been made up on the 9-11 issue; the only hope is to persuade those still on the fence.

One would think that somebody really interested in the "Truth" would be happy to have mistakes pointed out to them, but they're not. They are simply partisans for their side. In a lot of ways it's like trying to convince, say, a Boston Red Sox fan that he should root for the Yankees.

 

[T.A.M.]

I seem to have come to that conclusion much sooner than you my friend. I spent about three days, about 2 months ago, trying to convince a friend that the path he was going down, the things he was taking at face value were wrong, and without any evidence. I showed him a plethora of real proof to the contrary of all he held as true, yet I did not change him one bit. He merely replied that I was only touching the surface, and that I need to go further down the rabit hole.

Well this last reference told me all I needed. Anyone who compares this whole thing to the matrix, is beyond return.

The only reason I am doing any of this, posting, writing, reading, is to inform others who might come into contact with the "dark side" of the REAL EVIDENCE in the matter. To pursuade them, before the CTers get to them, to use their sense of reasoning and logic, and their sense for what REAL EVIDENCE, really is. Hopefully, if we all do this, we might save a few from the CTers "rabbit Hole".

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

At the nineelevenUK forum they relegated me to a new "critics corner," so I bid them adieu. Guess their mods weren't so open-minded after all.

Remember Gravy, they are a movement. Though, from what I have seen/read, it's more of a bowel movement than anything else.

 

[Gravy]

Ok, I've figured it out. This is why D.A. and the crowd are so convinced on the gold issue.

I think they have a theory that the same little green men who planted the explosives in the wtc over 2-3 months, are also the ones who took all the gold (40 Million pounds according to the monetary value LC tells us) out.

Just like it took months for the leprechans to plant the bombs, so it took them that same amount of time to remove the gold...go in with explosives in your little sack, come out with a sack of gold...

Welcom to the forum, T.A.M.
Your WTC gold theory is far too sensible to make it into an Avery production. He contends that the airplane strikes were distractions for the gold theft, and that the $167 billion (lately they've been saying it's over $1 trillion) was removed between the time the first plane hit and the time the south tower collapsed: 73 minutes.

 

[60hzxtl]

Welcom to the forum, T.A.M.
Your WTC gold theory is far too sensible to make it into an Avery production. He contends that the airplane strikes were distractions for the gold theft, and that the $167 billion (lately they've been saying it's over $1 trillion) was removed between the time the first plane hit and the time the south tower collapsed: 73 minutes.

Gold is light enough isn't it?

And driving away from the WTC, as everyone was driving to it? Nothing to it!

Dylan makes a caper movie.

Still fiction.

 

[T.A.M.]

Thanks for the welcome. I've been over at SLC for a while, and then discovered this site through that one. Now I have another place where I can find the voices of reason in amongst the choir of idiots that seem to have overtaken the 9/11 issue.

As for the gold, it is heavy yes, but you see...dem leprachans, Dems is magik.

 

[Bronze Dog]

The gold was only wrapping. We're actually talking about gold-pressed latinum. The big-eared corporate aliens were behind it all. The government would have you believe it was the reptoids.

 

[Gravy]

I have come to the conclusion that the only point of arguing with the conspiracy theorists is for the benefit of onlookers. There is no real chance of changing minds that have been made up on the 9-11 issue; the only hope is to persuade those still on the fence.

I agree that the hard-core among them are nearly immune to changing their minds about anything, but who knows how many onlookers are onlookers because they're unsure about the facts? I took the time to make several long posts there because it seemed that their members had had precious little exposure to anything besides woo. They didn't take their defloration well.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

...They didn't take their defloration well.

Dollars to donuts, many, many at LC are still in "full bloom."

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Welcom to the forum, T.A.M.
Your WTC gold theory is far too sensible to make it into an Avery production. He contends that the airplane strikes were distractions for the gold theft, and that the $167 billion (lately they've been saying it's over $1 trillion) was removed between the time the first plane hit and the time the south tower collapsed: 73 minutes.

Holy moley! Just roughing it for 2001http://eh.net/hmit/goldprice/answer.php)
Year U.S. Official Price
(dollars per fine ounce)
(end of year)
2001 42.222222

So, $1,000,000,000,000/$42.222222 = 23684210650.969529741944893378657 fine ounces
1 short ton = 32000 ounces
Therefore 23684210650.969529741944893378657 ounces = 740131.58284279780443577791808304 short tons.

Now, that site seems off compared to what screwloosechange has for the first time this came up. So, let's hit another historical gold price site:
http://www.kitco.com/scripts/hist_charts/goldyear_new2.cgi
It shows gold at being ~US$287/ounce
Using that figure we have:
$1,000,000,000,000/$287 = 3484320557.4912891986062717770035 ounces
=> 108885.01742160278745644599303136 short tons

So, let's go with the second figure since (1) it is close to SLC's figure and (2) it favors the CT'ers way more than the first figure.
Therefore we have US$1,000,000,000,000 in gold, which works out to ~108885 tons. Per here http://science.enotes.com/how-products-encyclopedia/armored-truck, we see an average route truck has a cargo load capacity of ~13,000, or 6.5 short tons. This means that you would need ~16752 trucks to haul the gold away.

Of course, as SCL(http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/05/great-gold-heist.html) was kind enough to point out; the gold reserves in the US at the time were 8,133.5 tons. Which works out to $180.1 billion as of June 1st 2006.

In short, I want to know who their crack-dealer is; because he is providing high grade junk.

 

[Gravy]

Those of you who've seen Loose Change or read my critique of it are aware that one of its main sources of disinformation is the American Free Press. The AFP is relatively new, and lists its predecessor as a publication called the Spotlight. I did some Googling on the Spotlight but didn't turn up much in my brief search. A reader has just emailed me with some very interesting (and not surprising) information, reprinted with permission:

"Anti-Semitism is the socialism of fools."
-August Bebel

I just finished reading your excellent rebuttals to Loose Change and Loose Change 2, posted on 911Myths.com. I wanted to congratulate you on a job well done. I'd like to point out one thing, if I may, regarding your description of The American Free Press (AFP), which you correctly note is an "anti-Zionist", conspiracy-obsessed online publication. What you failed to note and what I think is of great importance in demonstrating the lengths to which Avery et al are willing to go to force the square pegs of history into the round holes of their claim, is that The AFP is not simply anti-Zionist(which I, personally, do not object to in and of itself) in orientation but is, in fact, the spin-off publication of the now defunct domestic neo-fascist organization, The Liberty Lobby, founded by American quasi-Nazi and conspiracist, Willis Carto. Formerly known as The Spotlight, The AFP is a perfect example of the "old wine in new skins" PR campaigns that many neo fascists and Third Positionist organizations have undertaken over the last few decades (perhaps best embodied by the current suit-and-tie public face of former (?) Klansmen and American Nazi, David Duke). While the pages of The AFP do not openly endorse things like Nazi-skinheads, Aryan Nations summerfests, Holocaust denial books and organizations, or sell Third Reich marching music CD's and Tapes, (unlike its former incarnation, The Spotlight) the fact that they proudly announce that their publication is "brought to you by the former staff of The Spotlight, who are now the publishers." should be more than enough reason for any serious researcher to keep a light year's distance between themselves and such a crackpot publication. Well, that and the piss-poor journalism advanced by its roster of rambling, reactionary, closeted and not-so-closeted Swastika-saluting scribes. Again, can someone tell me why Avery and his pals are relying so heavily on the neo-fascist AFP as a main source for LC2E? Could it be that they themselves, along with a growing number of so-called "alternative" researchers are, in some way, anti-Semites, or simply just fools? Is there a difference?

"Pope" Ralph Hernandez