Loose Change - Part II

[Flo]

I also find it hard to imagine Rudy Giuliani acquiescing to a conspiratorial act of multiple murder, treason, and cover-up. This is a man who was a federal prosecutor, hammering mobsters, murderers, and the Howard Beach crowd.

More importantly, this theory would suggest that Rudy Giuliani, mayor of New York, would acquiesce to the murder of 343 firefighters and 23 police officers, including the Fire Department Chief, the head Chaplain, and numerous other high-ranking fire officers. And then stand there and lie through his teeth about it for five years.

Hitler and Stalin could do that. I don't think Rudy Giuliani could sleep at night after supporting and condoning such an act.

The question is not about him acquiescing to the act, but about him (and the other people involved) accepting to be slurred by halwits who try to make a name for themselves through wild accusations.

 

[delphi_ote]

If this was trully a nazi "police-state" as they believe, he'd be dead by now.

They claim to believe this, but they don't act like it. It's some kind of weird pseudo-belief.

 

[Kiwiwriter]

The point I like to make to people

If Avery trully believes his government is able and willing to kill 3,000 of its own citizens, then I guess his project to screen LC 3 to mainstream theatres is suicide.

If this was trully a nazi "police-state" as they believe, he'd be dead by now.

I often say that to people about Michael Moore's situation...if the US was really a police state, by now Moore's body would have been found dumped in a trash can in Flint, Michigan, a knife stuck in his ribs and his wallet and credit cards scattered around the garbage can, victim of an apparent mugging. How sad, how cruel, how tragic. Flint is certainly a violent city. We honor the memory of Michael Moore as a satirist and filmmaker, send flowers to his funeral, and wish his widow well...and back to work, everybody, like Mindszenty...

Or these conspiracy theorists would be standing show trial, like the Stalinist Purges...

Or they would have disappeared under "Night and Fog" emergency decrees to unnamed prisons...

Or simply been shot after summary court-martial.

Instead they're making appearances, book deals, film deals, running websites, and being interviewed by the press...

 

[Kiwiwriter]

Rudy and the truth

The question is not about him acquiescing to the act, but about him (and the other people involved) accepting to be slurred by halwits who try to make a name for themselves through wild accusations.

I imagine that if Rudy Giuliani met one of these accusers face to face, and that accuser said, "Hey, Rudy, you covered up the government conspiracy on 9/11," Rudy would deck him.

Like Buzz Aldrin and the moon hoax guy a few years ago. I think Jim Lovell did the same thing.

 

[60hzxtl]

Where is Dylan from anyway? Its sure as [rule8] ain't New York.

Oneonta, NY 13820

A clever person could find out his actual address, and phone number with a simple search. But that would violate some rules around here.


BTW: home base for "Like, hey man, Dylan" still states this -


Our website will return as soon as possible.


And when I read this quote Delphi provided above:

"I lost the Green nominating convention to Howie Hawkins, a co-founder of the Green Party, a teamster. . . "

I realized where all the gold in all the trucks went.

 

[Brainster]

Looking through my notes, I realized I had never posted this. It's always nice to wake up spitting mad. I am going to do my very best to make an honest man out of this *^#$&*%%#%*&()&$)*&^$@@$%#$!$#@$^%$# called Dylan Avery.

The Edge AM – Daniel Ott interview with Dylan Avery May 13, 2006.

Excerpts

LOL! He doesn't have too many delusions of grandeur! When asked what was the most egregious and obvious piece of evidence he cites the collapse of WTC 7. But as usual he can't go ten seconds without lying (at about 6:58):

"I mean, One Liberty Plaza was right underneath the South Tower, and that building just basically stood, standing, virtually intact, I mean granted there was some damage from the collapse but I mean the building itself didn't fall."

Okay, that's pretty easy to check with a site plan of WTC complex. And looking at it, it's obvious that Dylan's lying through his teeth. In fact it appears to me that every single square inch of WTC 7 is closer to the North Tower than any part of One Liberty Plaza is to the South Tower.

Still can't post URLs (couple more posts to go), but I'll put up a post on screw loose change in a couple hours.

It's stuff like this that makes me wonder about Dylan. We can't really call him a "Truther" since he lies pathologically. There really are three possibilities here:

1. He lies because it's in service to a higher truth. The most charitable explanation.

2. He lies because he's a charlatan selling a DVD.

3. He lies because he's a plant by "them" to discredit the Truthers.

I'm actually beginning to lean towards door #3, because the lies are so obvious that it's hard to argue that they serve #1 or #2 well. But of course #3 would mean that there really is a conspiracy. Okay, so it's the snake oil salesman, just a really incompetent snake oil salesman.

Thanks for pointing that interview out, Gravy!

 

[kookbreaker]

More importantly, this theory would suggest that Rudy Giuliani, mayor of New York, would acquiesce to the murder of 343 firefighters and 23 police officers, including the Fire Department Chief, the head Chaplain, and numerous other high-ranking fire officers. And then stand there and lie through his teeth about it for five years.

In the trepaned, fantasy world of the Loosers, the pre-9-11 dialogue goes like this:

Republican Masters: Rudy, we need to do something in your city.
RG: What is thy bidding, my master.
RM: We wish to blow up the two largest buildings and kill a large number of people.
RG: Would that bring suspicion on all of us?
RM: No, we will make it look like a terrorist act. You may lose a lot of firemen by the way.
RG: Such is the price.
RM: Good thing we got a Republican mayor in place in time, I was worried the explosives we built into the WTC towers was going to rot.


In reality, any such conversation would go like this:

Republican Masters: Rudy, we need to do something in your city.
RG: You want to have another convention here? Cool! That'd be great!
RM: We wish to blow up the two largest buildings and kill a large number of people.
RG: You want to... what?! You want to blow up my town? You want to kill my citizens?! Are you nuts?!
RM: Its OK. We will make it look like a terrorist act.
RG: It is f[rule8]ing not 'OK'. Oh, man, you are giong down. I am going to make certain you are giong down hard!
RM: Errr, uhm, and errr, umm...some firefighters might also be killed in the process.
RG: Say what?
RM: Like a few.....hundred
RG: That does it.
RM: Its for a good cause! We need a thing called a 'Patriot Act'...I think...or maybe a pipeline in Afganistan?..maybe?
RG: That's it. I'm getting the Fire Department, I'm getting the Police Department. The heck with you going 'down'. We're heading down there and we're bringing axes, shovels, and baseball bats. We're going to break your skull, we gonna break your familys' skulls, we're going to break your friends' skulls, we're going to break the skull's of people you've stood next to, we're gonna break the skulls of people who look like you! We're gonna...

<3 hours of broken skulls, burning houses, and various insertions described>

RM: I get the feeling you are not with the program, Rudy.

 

[Flo]

You have to remember that "True Believers" of all stripes, particularly conspiracy theorists and extremists, have an exaggerated sense of self-importance and an utter lack of a sense of humor. They believe they are bringing the truth to the world, and that everyone in the world should agree with them and fall behind in ranks in their army of the just cause.

Oh I know, I know ... I was posting from experience.

Study how folks in the mainstream put up with the jibes of Jay Leno, David Letterman, and other comedians.

Over here, celebrities and politicians are judging their popularity by the number of their appearances in the puppet show "Les Guignols de l'Info"

 

[Hellbound]

Yea yea. It's just too much fun to be mean to Dan Brown.

To be fair, there is one exciting Dan Brown novel.

And he changes character names, place names, puts a new title on it, and sells it over and over...



I read one of his spy novels first (Decption Point, IIRC). Had no idea about the others. Not a masterpiece by any means, but readable. A good waste of time.

Then I read another of his spy novels (can't recall the name, dealth with the CIA and a quantum computer, I think), and it was the exact same plot, with the same plot twist, just different names. Even the main character was identical except for minor details. It was cookie-cutter.

The other works pretty well follow suit. Whoever starts the main character on his quest/mission/whatever is the bad guy, pretty much garaunteed.

 

[realitybites]

New guy here. I know this is kinda' way off-topic, but I was curious to know if anyone here is planning on being at Ground Zero for the anniversary. I saw DylanCo there last year and I know they'll be there again this year.

Was wondering if a group of sane individuals would be interested in debunking them in person. Obviously the memorial service takes precedence and I wouldn't want to do anything to disrupt it, but I'm tired of these people going unchallenged and handing out their s*** to people who just don't know any better. Especially at Ground Zero on 9/11....

I haven't read through each and every thread here, so I apologize if this has already been brought up (but if so, I'd like to be in on it).

 

[Brainster]

Oneonta, NY 13820

A clever person could find out his actual address, and phone number with a simple search. But that would violate some rules around here.

The address for the DVDs was Oneonta as well, but I saw a recent interview where Dylan mentioned moving to DC in 2004.

 

[Kiwiwriter]

Beliefs and the police state

They claim to believe this, but they don't act like it. It's some kind of weird pseudo-belief.

What you have to remember is that the conspiracy theorist lives in a world of exaggerating his own sense of self-importance. That is a big key to their behavior. They are convinced that they are more important than they are, and try to build up that importance, when in actuality, they have none whatsoever.

Just as importantly, they cannot blame themselves -- because of that sense of self-importance, ego, and True Belief -- for their failures and inabilities to succeed in life (let alone be appointed Emperor of the World). So the reason they didn't get the job, win the girl, or get their idiotic theory on ABC primetime is not because their ideas and behavior are ludicrous beyond words, but because the great conspiracy that opposes them has taken action through its nefarious and hidden hand.

I think my favorite comment on this subject came 24 years ago, when a guy in New York named William Depperman was posting massive posters with typewritten 12-point letters, about how everything, including some rock groups, karate movies, and transit union bigwigs, were controlled by the CIA. I'd read the posters while I waited for traffic lights to change, and remember that one of them complained about how when Depperman planned a demonstration against whatever was annoying him (graffiti charges, I think), "it rained!!" He followed that with, "The US government admitted to seeding clouds to create rain during the Vietnam War."

So his grandiose theory was that the US government, seeing this one-man party as a threat to its survival, was wasting vast amounts of money deliberately starting thunderstorms in New York, to prevent him from holding a demonstration.

And of course, it was too hard for him to simply hold up an umbrella or stand under an awning.

But what it really meant was, "Nobody showed up at my stupid demonstration, and I can't blame myself, because I'm the most important thing in the universe, so it has to be the nefarious workings of the evildoers who are out to make my life miserable."

Depperman wound up standing trial for the postering. Mayor Koch saw his posters from his limo, was irritated, and the anti-graffiti squad put in a couple of undercovers. They pretended to join his party, helped him slap up a poster, then arrested him. After paying his fine, Depperman fled to Vermont, and was never heard from again.

I know about the latter because the posters and Depperman got written up in the Village Voice and the New York Times.

So creating a viciou

 

[kookbreaker]

Welcome to the forum, RealityBites.

Gravy and Manny did confront Dyaln & company at the premier of Flight 93. Dylan spat a lot and cried 'government agent' a whole lot, but not much else.

 

[CptColumbo]

Just talked with Universal and Warner Bros. by phone about the use of their footage in LC. They will look into it. Should I steer them towards the Naudet's lawyers, or would they be unable to discuss the case?

 

[CptColumbo]

Welcome to the forum, RealityBites.

Gravy and Manny did confront Dyaln & company at the premier of Flight 93. Dylan spat a lot and cried 'government agent' a whole lot, but not much else.

Be sure to bring a video camera next time. If you didn't the first time.

 

[delphi_ote]

Here is a new edition of Loose Change:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZGscWP5Osw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eizeIjRaV-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlTFcXfx5_0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EoIezeihoM

The debunking edition, "lol Loose Change!" It makes liberal use of our friend Gravy's work. The young man who put it together contacted me to let you guys know what he's done. It was a one man project for a couple of days, and I think he did a good job just putting all the information on top of the film considering that kind of time frame and man power.

Now if only we could get it to show up as a related movie to Loose Change on youtube...

ETA One stop shopping: http://www.lolloosechange.co.nr/

 

[60hzxtl]

Welcome Realitybites,

I've worked the memorial every year since at St. Paul's, but looks like this year I will not.

Be wary of the confrontation idea, lest it be construed to be an incitement to riot.

Reading back on the long trail here, you'll see that Gravy & Manny did just that at the flt 93 screenings. (Hats off to you guys!)

Remember, arguing with these guys is like putting a hat on a pig. It's still a pig.

 

[Kiwiwriter]

That's hilarious!

In the trepaned, fantasy world of the Loosers, the pre-9-11 dialogue goes like this:

Republican Masters: Rudy, we need to do something in your city.
RG: What is thy bidding, my master.
RM: We wish to blow up the two largest buildings and kill a large number of people.
RG: Would that bring suspicion on all of us?
RM: No, we will make it look like a terrorist act. You may lose a lot of firemen by the way.
RG: Such is the price.
RM: Good thing we got a Republican mayor in place in time, I was worried the explosives we built into the WTC towers was going to rot.


In reality, any such conversation would go like this:

Republican Masters: Rudy, we need to do something in your city.
RG: You want to have another convention here? Cool! That'd be great!
RM: We wish to blow up the two largest buildings and kill a large number of people.
RG: You want to... what?! You want to blow up my town? You want to kill my citizens?! Are you nuts?!
RM: Its OK. We will make it look like a terrorist act.
RG: It is f[rule8]ing not 'OK'. Oh, man, you are giong down. I am going to make certain you are giong down hard!
RM: Errr, uhm, and errr, umm...some firefighters might also be killed in the process.
RG: Say what?
RM: Like a few.....hundred
RG: That does it.
RM: Its for a good cause! We need a thing called a 'Patriot Act'...I think...or maybe a pipeline in Afganistan?..maybe?
RG: That's it. I'm getting the Fire Department, I'm getting the Police Department. The heck with you going 'down'. We're heading down there and we're bringing axes, shovels, and baseball bats. We're going to break your skull, we gonna break your familys' skulls, we're going to break your friends' skulls, we're going to break the skulls of people you've stood next to, we're gonna break the skulls of people who look like you! We're gonna...

<3 hours of broken skulls, burning houses, and various insertions described>

RM: I get the feeling you are not with the program, Rudy.

You only left out, in the first part, the conversation being part of a Masonic-Trilateralist-Jewish ritual.

Anyway, the second conversation would likely end with them having to whack Rudy, Donna Hanover, and Judith Nathan, too. Or at least revealing Rudy's baldness. And there's be a lot more dirtier words than you would have. These are New Yorkers, remember.

 

[Kiwiwriter]

Gotcha

Oh I know, I know ... I was posting from experience.





Over here, celebrities and politicians are judging their popularity by the number of their appearances in the puppet show "Les Guignols de l'Info"

Quite right...I just felt like adding that for the benefit of anybody passing through who might NOT know it.

I also have an irritating habit of answering all questions put to me in full. Dates back to my school days. I still think all questions can be answered by "pencils down."

 

[realitybites]

Thanks Kook. I wouldn't mind making them cry and spit at the anniversary either. I do understand that "fighting" them could be construed as validating their theories, but it's just scary to me how this stuff seems to be catching on.