Loose Change - Part II

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Looking through my notes, I realized I had never posted this. It's always nice to wake up spitting mad. I am going to do my very best to make an honest man out of this *^#$&*%%#%*&()&$)*&^$@@$%#$!$#@$^%$# called Dylan Avery.

The Edge AM – Daniel Ott interview with Dylan Avery May 13, 2006.
http://www.theedgeam.com/interviews/audiofiles.htm
Excerpts
Dylan Avery said:
"I started working on this project back in May, 2002, when I was about 18. The whole thing started as an accident. I was researching for what was supposed to be a fictional movie, about myself and my friends discovering that 9/11 was done by our own government."

Daniel Ott: "Dylan, does George Bush hate you for this?"
Dylan: "I would imagine he does. Well, he may not hate me for it, but I'm probably just another thorn in his side."

Daniel Ott: "Do you think you're on some kind of list now?"
Dylan: "I would imagine so. I can still fly safely, so I'm not on the no-fly list, but I'd like to imagine that I'm on some list somewhere."

"I think we have more people in the military and in positions of power who are on our side and aware of this information than aren't. Granted, they may not be out in public saying so, but I'd like to think if they watched our movie they'd say, 'Oh, yeah, that makes a lot of sense.' "

"Well, I tried to, I tried to stick to the things that were as solid as possible, and tried not to speculate."

"I would like to think that these 4 planes are still flying around."

"I'd like to think [Bush is] just being manipulated by his higher-ups."

"And I don't want a violent American revolution, but it's probably going to happen."

)(&*^$$#$*&)*)^#&^$%*)(*^%#@^@#!$#&^^(&_#&_((I&&^%$()(*$%$@!##!%@$^$%##^&*%()*(^&^%^)()*+)(&%^%$@%*(^
:mad:

Boy's got quite the imagination.
 
This raises an interesting question. If Cheney was indeed one of the purpetrators in this conspiracy, is this [Die Hard 3] where he got the idea for the gold heist?
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA...

Whew. I need to catch my breath... okay. There.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!

Whew... okay. I think I'm better now. I've always said these guys thought life imitated a Jerry Bruckheimer or Michael Bay film. I was wrong. They think it imitates a bad John McTiernan film!
 
Boy's got quite the imagination.
Yeah, laugh it up now, boys. But DJ is almost done with his debunking of Gravy1. He'll get to it right after he avenges the deaths of all those people murdered by the NYPD in the King Street massacre. And they you'll be eating crow, well, actually pretty much the same stuff you always eat. A nice grilled hamburger with fresh onion and crisp lettuce on a toasted bun, or something.



1: From the looks of things, Gravy, you pretty much got all the actual facts right, but you're, well, you're snarky.
 
"An hour long smorgasbord of content from Louder Than Words"

Dylan's comments:
and let me put this disclaimer, right here, right now:
this presentation is in no way an indication of the arrangement or content of Loose Change Final Cut, and is merely intended as entertainment for our rabid fans until it hits theaters.

the lawsuit is still being worked out, FYI.

edit: Let me fix Mr. Avery's quote to help him with further legal troubles that may be on the horizon:
...disclaimer...:
...Loose Change...is merely intended as entertainment...
 
Last edited:
1: From the looks of things, Gravy, you pretty much got all the actual facts right, but you're, well, you're snarky.


One common trait among woos, whatever the subject, is they can accept the idea of contradiction (not the actual thing, of course), but only if it is presented with a lot of sugarcoating. Sarcasm, to them, is an indication of being bad, and being bad is being wrong. OTOH, contradiction while being nice amounts to being mistaken at worse, but more importantly being open-minded, thus susceptible to conversion to their point of view.


(ETA: someone correct my English grammar, I got the feeling something's not right. Sarcasm is OK)
 
Bold is from the Ott interview:

Italic is my running snarkyness

"That's what Giuliani did. He blocked off a crime scene and destroyed the evidence. ...And completely denied any investigators from coming in. ...nobody was allowed to go in there, nobody was allowed to look at the steel, I mean, FEMA couldn't even go in there."

Try it, "like, hey man, Dylan" Try it on Rudy. Rudy was in 7 WTC when he was told to evacuate. Half of his group went to door # 1 and DIED. His body guard stopped them and told them door # 2. He lived. Just try it.

"I mean, you had Peter Jennings watching the collapse of the world trade center and saying, you know, 'That looks like a controlled demolition.' "

Peter Jennings was once heard to say, Gee those clouds look like angels. Clearly he knew what he was talking about. They must have gotten to ol' Peter with that cancer.

Daniel Ott: "Dylan, does George Bush hate you for this?"

Bush: "like, hey man, Dylan" Who?

Dylan: "I would imagine he does. Well, he may not hate me for it, but I'm probably just another thorn in his side."

Bush: Who?

Daniel Ott: "Do you think you're on some kind of list now?"

Yes, the please do not breed list.

Dylan: "I would imagine so. I can still fly safely, so I'm not on the no-fly list, but I'd like to imagine that I'm on some list somewhere."

OK : "like, hey man, Dylan" Why do you still live in the country?



"Oklahoma City, obviously an inside job. The 1993 World Trade Center bombing, obviously an inside job."

Yeah, "like, hey man, Dylan" is right! Wait - who was president then?
 
You got it all wrong guys. They didn't got the idea from Goldfingers, Cheney took it directly from Die Hard III after having a minor role in it:

"The fact that the WTC is only a few blocks away from Wall Street, that Cheney was in the movie and would subsequently know the plot, and that the supposed heist is eirily similar to what supposedly transpired on 9/11 raises yet another one of those annoying conincidences that surround the attack."

Well, he certainly gives credibility to those who say kids can't tell the difference between reality and fiction.
 
Sander Hicks, Green Party candidate, huh?
Yesterday, I lost the Green nominating convention to Howie Hawkins, a co-founder of the Green Party, a teamster, and a peace activist. My campaign is over, but that's OK, I learned a lot and met a lot of people. I have a great beginning for mass support inside the Green Party, although I realize I need to pay my dues a bit more. I am now working on Howie's campaign.
http://www.hicksforsenate.com/

He didn't even get the nomination. Looks like that nutbag isn't a candidate for anything.

Here are his comments on the Pentagon (bolding mine):
You had rush hour traffic on I-395 that saw the plane hit, you have 100 eyewitnesses compiled in the pamphlet published by Penny Schoner. Where the hell did this theory come from? Thierry Meyssan's book "The Horrible Fraud" was the original source. Meyssan wrote his book from Paris, he didn't travel over here. The book is highly imaginative, and in the middle of a trauma, people are searching for answers. A lot of people in the 9/11 truth movement glommed onto this one and I think it's hurt our credibility over all. You have to wonder if that was by design. For instance, all the right-wing magazines (e.g. National Review) have had a field day.
http://www.counterpunch.org/mickey12092004.html

And another quote from the same article (again, bolding mine)
Reality is a construction. We're told what to believe by the government and media. Most people play along, pay taxes, support the troops and the wars that are part and parcel of capitalism. But there are some who drop out and fall away from the death machine. God bless them.
Hmm. I can't imagine why he wasn't nominated...
 
Well said

There's also a very real danger in this mentality that wants so badly to see the world in simplistic, black and white or good and evil. Everyone has to fit into one category or the other. You all saw how quickly the Looser crowd sent a swarm of harassing e-mails to the Naudet brothers. They did the simple math, labeled them, and went on the offensive.

Excellent essay.

It's a sort of superstition, this is dehumanizing propaganda that teaches us a certain group of our fellow species are "the enemy" and are therefore the source of all of the misfortunes that plague the human condition. Like throwing spilled salt over his shoulder to blind an onlooking demon, by tracking down this conspiracy and rooting it out the conspiracy theorist gains control and understand of his misfortunes. He always has someone to blame when something goes wrong. It's never fate or bad luck or even himself. It's that faceless, omnipresent "enemy" at fault.

Inevitably, the rhetoric in conspiracy groups becomes more heated. What starts as curious musings foments rage and hatred. Then it's only a matter of time before the more dissilusioned members take violent action against the perceived source of evil. Murdering those responsible for every horrible thing one hears about in the news isn't madness, it's logic. Paranoia has a tragic breaking point. The JFK assasination. The Church burnings in the South. The Oklahoma City Bombings. The Beltway sniper. The Holocaust. The Columbine shootings. The Rawandan Genocide. I'm sure you can think of dozens of other examples. We see the beginnings of it already in the Loose Change crowd with the e-mails Avery mentioned threatening violence against the lawyers. If you take a few steps back, you can see it's exactly the same mentality that caused 15 Saudis, an Egyptian, two Emirati, and a Lebanese man to unleash the very destruction Avery's movie is about.

Not only are these hate groups and conspiracy nuts causing some to ignore the danger posed by other paranoid radicals, they can very easily become dangerous paranoid radicals themselves.

The paranoia associated with extremism is interesting, because it puts the world into simplistic terms..."us and them," "good and evil," "our race against the race-mixers," and so on. It also lends itself to apocalyptic thinking. The struggle with the enemy is for the survival of humanity and the planet. The battle has moved into its final hour. The paranoid extremists are the few heroic warriors standing in the gap at Armageddon.

That thinking, of course, justifies any strategy, tactic, or weapon. Note how extremists often become what they behold and use their enemies' tactics -- or simply the ones they accuse the enemy of using -- in their own methodology, and blame their enemies. Buford Furrow comes to mind for me. He went out and indiscriminately killed people for his Nazi beliefs. His outfit's rhetoric -- like most neo-Nazis -- is that their enemies are practicing genocide against the white race. So that justifies random killing.

The guys who killed Alan Berg, too...they claim they have the right to free speech and got angry when call-in radio show host Berg would ridicule them and cut them off on the phone. So these Nazis decided Berg had no right to free speech or to live, and shot him in his driveway.

It's very depressing, actually...all this behavior is heating up with the immigration debate. Whatever you may think of the immigration issue, the solution is not coming in a rise in membership in neo-Nazi and Klan organizations.
 
Come now, Delphi. There are people who love the novels for what they are. Let's not generalise.
Yea yea. It's just too much fun to be mean to Dan Brown.

Q: Would you consider yourself a conspiracy theorist?

DB: Absolutely not. In fact, I'm quite the opposite-more of a skeptic. I see no truth whatsoever in stories of extraterrestrial visitors, crop circles, the Bermuda Triangle, or many of the other "mysteries" that permeate pop culture. However, the secret behind THE DA VINCI CODE was too well documented and significant for me to dismiss.
http://www.bookreporter.com/authors/au-brown-dan.asp

Q: How much of this novel is based on fact?

DB: All of it. The paintings, locations, historical documents, and organizations described in the novel all exist.
http://www.bookreporter.com/authors/au-brown-dan.asp

:rolleyes:
 
This raises an interesting question. If Cheney was indeed one of the purpetrators in this conspiracy, is this where he got the idea for the gold heist?

No way, man! Die Hard 3 was released in 1995, some 25 years after they planted the bombs in the concrete core of the WTC towers (you know, the core TEH GLOBALISTS don't want you to know about!!!). It's obvious that the credits for DIE HARD 3 should read "From an idea by the ILLUMINATI".

ETA: Insert random misspellings on your own. I don't have the time.
 
I expect even someone who loathes New York would object to being accused of being guilty of/accomplice to/covering the murder of 3000+ people. At some point, someone will notice those accusations and the result will not be something that can be settled with the quick retractation of some stolen images ... I'd love to see Avery and the like* try to present their "evidence" in court in front a more than a few irate fire fighters, policemen, victim's families, politicians, etc.

This is inevitable. These bastards can't hide behind the first amendment forever. I really hope they'll be brought to justice. Avery is clearly accusing people of murder. This trash is just unacceptable.
 
Rudy the conspirator? NOT!

That's what's ludicrous. The idea that Giuliani had any part in any conspiracy. Rudi loves NYC, whatever you may think of him. The idea that he would be a part of any conspiracy that would bring such carnage to the city he loves is beyond absurd. If Dylan had the guts to say that to Rudi's face (he doesn't), his own face might well be torn off.

Where is Dylan from anyway? Its sure as [rule8] ain't New York.


I also find it hard to imagine Rudy Giuliani acquiescing to a conspiratorial act of multiple murder, treason, and cover-up. This is a man who was a federal prosecutor, hammering mobsters, murderers, and the Howard Beach crowd.

More importantly, this theory would suggest that Rudy Giuliani, mayor of New York, would acquiesce to the murder of 343 firefighters and 23 police officers, including the Fire Department Chief, the head Chaplain, and numerous other high-ranking fire officers. And then stand there and lie through his teeth about it for five years.

Hitler and Stalin could do that. I don't think Rudy Giuliani could sleep at night after supporting and condoning such an act.
 
If Avery trully believes his government is able and willing to kill 3,000 of its own citizens, then I guess his project to screen LC 3 to mainstream theatres is suicide.

If this was trully a nazi "police-state" as they believe, he'd be dead by now.
 
Humorlessness

One common trait among woos, whatever the subject, is they can accept the idea of contradiction (not the actual thing, of course), but only if it is presented with a lot of sugarcoating. Sarcasm, to them, is an indication of being bad, and being bad is being wrong. OTOH, contradiction while being nice amounts to being mistaken at worse, but more importantly being open-minded, thus susceptible to conversion to their point of view.


(ETA: someone correct my English grammar, I got the feeling something's not right. Sarcasm is OK)

You have to remember that "True Believers" of all stripes, particularly conspiracy theorists and extremists, have an exaggerated sense of self-importance and an utter lack of a sense of humor. They believe they are bringing the truth to the world, and that everyone in the world should agree with them and fall behind in ranks in their army of the just cause.

But in reality, they are greeted with contempt, anger, derision, and ridicule. The first two they attribute to the sinister workings of their hidden opponents. But they accept the idea of being fought, which they relish. The latter two infuriates them. True Believers should not, in their own opinion, be objects of ridicule and derision. True Believers should be objects of respect and fear. Being laughed at or mocked is the worst fate for them.

Study how folks in the mainstream put up with the jibes of Jay Leno, David Letterman, and other comedians. The White House puts their best jokes on their daily press summary. Most politicians and celebrities will simply make jokes back. Sometimes they play along, like Gerald Ford. Or they simply shrug it off, like Dick Cheney. Others try to dig their way out of the hole, like Dan Quayle and his numerous gaffes.

(During the Murphy Brown incident, he reacted to the flogging by congratulating Murphy Brown on giving birth, and even sending flowers and a teddy bear to the set, and watching the critical episode with a single mother in Washington, DC. It didn't undo the damage, but his response kept it from being worse. If he had hurled further vitriol at Murphy, or got all defensive, he would have looked even more foolish)

So when I see conspiracy theorists exploding in fury over such jibes, and whining about why nobody wants to debate their great theories, I know I've tripped over an extremist.
 
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