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Looking for Skeptics

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I didn't expect a transcript. I expected, though, a clearer narrative as to how/when the call was received, if your daughter was certain it was flaccon, etc...

With all due respect (uh oh, you know **** is coming when someone opens a paragraph with that line), if you weren't willing to divulge more of the details or back story, you shouldn't have made the discussion public. I don't think anyone expects a verbatim transcript. We do actually trust your judgment. This is not an evidentiary hearing, but a bunch of people hanging out and chatting on the internet. If you feel you've checked into it and are fairly certain that it was flaccon and was a call as you initially described it, then I think most of us will be content to await flaccons explication.

Well it sure feels like an evidentiary hearing from where I am.


A clearer narrative as to how/when the call was received What the hell does that mean?


...if your daughter was certain it was flaccon? I have already answered that. No she wasn't. She called me and said 'Do you know someone called (flaccon's real name?)

Have you checked into it and are fairly certain that it was flaccon? No, your honour. I didn't take the call. I don't know how to carry out checks to ascertain that it was flaccon.

Foolmewunz, you don't know my daughter's age and I think your questioning is becoming inappropriate. Don't you see that these intrusive questions are pointless if flaccon says 'Sure, I called.'


How about thinking instead about the question I asked you?

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, jsfisher. That is a good description of how I experienced floccan
 
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And yet:



Alderbank, may I suggest you formally issue a proper retraction of your statements immediately and possibly consult with the moderators here about any relevant moderator action to be taken.

Alderbank is not a "bad guy" here. flaccon is not even a "bad guy" here. As much as I want to hear more details from Alderbank RIGHT NOW, I think he's taking a wise course and waiting for flaccon to return to the forum and explain her side of things.

Ward
 
I do hope this thread doesn't just tail off and disappear. I would really like it to have an ending. Some loose ends would be okay, but not all loose ends.
 
Alderbank is not a "bad guy" here. flaccon is not even a "bad guy" here. As much as I want to hear more details from Alderbank RIGHT NOW, I think he's taking a wise course and waiting for flaccon to return to the forum and explain her side of things.

Ward


I agree.

Time to be patient and let flacon explain herself. I can understand why Alderbank reacted immediately to post the objection he did on first hearing from his daughter. It's arguably the only mistake he has made, and hardly a matter for getting all legalistic on him (it's a threatening tone in your post there daylightstar, and I don't think it's warranted, or fair to impose that on Alderbank).

Time to chill. Enjoy the rest of your week end, Alderbank. I for one support you in whatever you decide is right for you and your family above all else.
 
Right, so you guys have different suggestions then the one I made. That's perfectly fine. It is indeed up to Alderbank to decide what is right for him and his family, you're quite right.
Like others, I am quite interested to see flaccon's next responses. Alderbank's all bold post might be a storm in a tea cup, or even a tea spoon ;) and all will have a good laugh about it later ;)
 
Help me with this question which I have been pondering, please - why did she phone me at all? I realise I have no evidence of a call so the simplest answer is that she didn't. Accepting for the sake of argument that she did, what would be the purpose? I have made only a few posts following my visit, mainly to answer a direct question from another post. flaccon does not react to my posts either to confirm or deny. I have had no PMs. Is it common on this forum to phone rather than post or PM?

I've never exchanged phone numbers or had a call from anyone here, so I don't think it's common to call, though it may be different between forum members who've opened other lines of communication with face-to-face visits.

But I don't see how anyone could even speculate about why flaccon called (other than the very general way that jsfisher did--that flaccon is upset about not converting you), without even a hint about what the call consisted of.

At this point, without further information, I'm personally left unable to even guess if it was something like: "I just realized that idiot Alderbank ran over my flowerbed when he backed out to leave and such a clumsy @#$% shouldn't be allowed to have a driver's license" or something like "The spirits have said they will do unspeakable things to your family because Alderbank has mocked them, so beware before you go to sleep tonight." It's just too open-ended.
 
Thanks for holding out the olive branch, Daylightstar. I do appreciate it.

I do regret what I said and the way I said it. I'll make no further reference to any alleged phone call
 
I will suggest that if the caller was not in fact flaccon, that s/he might have got flaccon's real first name from the Chapter 23 website, where the name was disclosed in passing on one of the pages as Patricia.

I understand the site's been taken down now, so this can no longer be confirmed.
 
I will suggest that if the caller was not in fact flaccon, that s/he might have got flaccon's real first name from the Chapter 23 website, where the name was disclosed in passing on one of the pages as Patricia.

I understand the site's been taken down now, so this can no longer be confirmed.

Tracey, actually, and, no, her site isn't down. Some of the pages have been cleared, but many are still intact. E.g., http://www.chapter23.org/Spirits-in-the-Blood.html
 
Here from the link supplied above is yet more evidence that the person we're dealing with is not mentally stable:

Page 29.

The Cat is referred to in the spirit~world as a Devil's Reject. Satan uses cats, as another silent method to poison Man. Centuries ago we knew this information, we kicked cats on sight. The information wasn't lost over the Centuries either, it was purposefully burned from village to village. Much information fizzled out over time, or became the "Old wives tales" of today.

"We need to burn their orifice" Reg had said. Meaning Extinction of the Cat. As much as I adore my cats, and will continue to do so, I do believe that by returning the Cat species back into the wild, would benefit Mankind immensely, by decreasing the fight against cancer, amongst other unnecessary cat-related diseases.

I understand that much information in this book will be extremely difficult, if not impossible to digest. I have difficulties digesting their information myself, but I am willing to trust their information for as long as their intervention remains positive.​

:boggled:
 
Pareidolia, whether visual or auditory, appears to be the least of this person's problems. Not only does she hear voices, she professes to believe she is being guided by the spirits to see the images she reports seeing.

Page 20.

..."Lots more faces, keep looking, there's over a thousand of us" I was only on face 8, and there wasn't much more to examine. "Look into the stain Trace, there's more faces" I continued zooming into Stain 2, the horned image. I couldn't find anything, and Stain 3 looked unimportant.

Reg and the other spirits continued to encourage, and I brought up the image of Stain 3 that night, it was just a deep circular stain. I placed the cropping tool into the stain, and cropped out a couple of millimetres. I instantly recognised my eyes! This wasn't a "sketch" No way could two dashes of blood deep within a stain, resemble my eyes. The eyes were floating behind what appears to be the face of a Warrior? It was like I'd cropped exactly where I was supposed to crop.​

None of us can help Flaccon/Tracey. Only a medical professional, and Tracey herself, can do the job.
 
So the site is still “under construction”, but it’s back. I sincerely commend Flaccon for removing the fraudulent business elements it previously contained.

We have all been quite careful not to openly “diagnose” Flaccon with schizophrenia or anything, but it is quite clear that her experience and interpretations go well beyond the pareidolia that most of us experience.

We’ve focused mainly on the EVP claims, but when the “spirits’ artwork” is examined, or even summarily looked at, it is quite obvious that there is a huge amount of overly imaginative interpretation of her perception of images.

I wish I could be more straightforward about my opinions in this case, but my sincerest hope is that a friend or family member will help her connect with people who can actually help her situation.

Whether or not she was hostile in the Alderbank phone call incident is almost irrelevant to me. Unless of course there were threats and a true risk of danger, I think a disturbing call from Flaccon to my own house would only strengthen my sympathy for her and her personal ordeal.

I am reminded that luck has played a huge part in the fact that I, or my loved ones, don’t have to go on living in a spooky demon-haunted world, the way she has to.
 
The name of Tracey's website's, Chapter 23, refers to the section of the error-riddled work of potboiler thriller fiction called The DaVinci Code, which the spirits told her to read.

Page 17.

... for weeks Reg continued to repeat certain information and instruction "Read the Da Vinci Code" He'd been asking me to read the book since November. I had a fair excuse for not reading the book yet, no time, even though the spirits had practically handed the book to me, I just don't read books. "Okay Trace, you've read the beginning headed "Fact:" now read chapter 23" Chapter 23 really was an eye-opener, and possibly explains the reason why the spirits often spoke of Da Vinci .​

In the cited novel, author Dan Brown makes a number of factually incorrect and internally self-contradictory claims about Leonardo Da Vinci and his work. Among these are that Leonardo (the name by which historians and artists know him, not "Da Vinci" which only refers to the town of his origin), was a "prankster" who inserted "hidden symbolism" and pagan messages into his paintings, like a mischievous schoolboy. For whom these messages were intended is never explained; it could not have been for the Priory of Sion (the overarching fictional organization behind much of the novel's plot) because its members already knew the "secrets" supposedly on display. it further staggers belief that Leonardo would have risked exposing himself and this magnificent secret information purely for the thrill of danger or for pushing the limits of what he could get away with, when he supposedly knew the homicidal lengths to which the Church would go to suppress these "secrets".

A second absurd claim is that Leonardo was a "flamboyant homosexual", which is not supported by any account of the man either from himself or by those who knew him. He might have been secretly gay, we'll never know, but he certainly was not "flamboyant" about it.

A third claim made by the pagan-leaning novel Tracey says the spirits wanted her to read is that one of Leonardo's paintings, The Virgin of the Rocks, was so filled "with explosive and disturbing details" that it was rejected by the Catholic organization that had commissioned it. This claim contradicts the earlier claims of "hidden symbolism" which Brown asserts the artist placed into his paintings. If these messages were so "hidden", how could they have been recognized as "explosive and disturbing" by non-Priory members?

This kind of unsupportable, contradictory accusation goes on for the full text of Brown's awful novel. The book pushes an attack on the historical foundations of the Catholic Church and propounds the belief that Jesus never died nor was resurrected, but married Mary Magdalene after being taken down from the cross, and raised children with her. Maybe all that is true -- who knows? -- but that Tracey cites this anti-Catholic work of fiction as a touchstone for her imaginary spirits only underlines the fact that her entire enterprise here is based on falsehood and fiction.
 
The name of Tracey's website's, Chapter 23, refers to the section of the error-riddled work of potboiler thriller fiction called The DaVinci Code, which the spirits told her to read.

Page 17.

... for weeks Reg continued to repeat certain information and instruction "Read the Da Vinci Code" He'd been asking me to read the book since November. I had a fair excuse for not reading the book yet, no time, even though the spirits had practically handed the book to me, I just don't read books. "Okay Trace, you've read the beginning headed "Fact:" now read chapter 23" Chapter 23 really was an eye-opener, and possibly explains the reason why the spirits often spoke of Da Vinci .​

In the cited novel, author Dan Brown makes a number of factually incorrect and internally self-contradictory claims about Leonardo Da Vinci and his work. Among these are that Leonardo (the name by which historians and artists know him, not "Da Vinci" which only refers to the town of his origin), was a "prankster" who inserted "hidden symbolism" and pagan messages into his paintings, like a mischievous schoolboy. For whom these messages were intended is never explained; it could not have been for the Priory of Sion (the overarching fictional organization behind much of the novel's plot) because its members already knew the "secrets" supposedly on display. it further staggers belief that Leonardo would have risked exposing himself and this magnificent secret information purely for the thrill of danger or for pushing the limits of what he could get away with, when he supposedly knew the homicidal lengths to which the Church would go to suppress these "secrets".

A second absurd claim is that Leonardo was a "flamboyant homosexual", which is not supported by any account of the man either from himself or by those who knew him. He might have been secretly gay, we'll never know, but he certainly was not "flamboyant" about it.

A third claim made by the pagan-leaning novel Tracey says the spirits wanted her to read is that one of Leonardo's paintings, The Virgin of the Rocks, was so filled "with explosive and disturbing details" that it was rejected by the Catholic organization that had commissioned it. This claim contradicts the earlier claims of "hidden symbolism" which Brown asserts the artist placed into his paintings. If these messages were so "hidden", how could they have been recognized as "explosive and disturbing" by non-Priory members?

This kind of unsupportable, contradictory accusation goes on for the full text of Brown's awful novel. The book pushes an attack on the historical foundations of the Catholic Church and propounds the belief that Jesus never died nor was resurrected, but married Mary Magdalene after being taken down from the cross, and raised children with her. Maybe all that is true -- who knows? -- but that Tracey cites this anti-Catholic work of fiction as a touchstone for her imaginary spirits only underlines the fact that her entire enterprise here is based on falsehood and fiction.

She made at least one quick reference to a possible "code" in this very thread. She is also a believer in chemtrails, and has called herself a follower of Icke (to "compare notes"). I would think you need scuba equipment to live in woo that deep. There has to be a way to convince her to seek the proper help without being rude or breaching the MA...
 
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I feel bad for flaccon because she is forced to live in an ignorant age where people no longer realize that house cats are actually satanic demons determined to infect the human race with cancer and moral disintegration. She longs for the days when people routinely kicked them on sight, but now that is somewhat frowned upon because we have turned away from the wisdom of the past. Back then our ancestors understood that torturing small felines was the key to battling Satan and preventing cancer!
 
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