KSM beheaded Pearl: A challenge for Truthers

[achimspok]

So when he repeats his confession and stands up in front of your 'international court' and confesses to the judge that he planned 9/11 and cut off Danial Pearls head................the judge wont 'buy it' huh! lol.

Send him over! huh! lol!

 

[JihadJane]

Quote mine much?

Keep posting to links that do you no favours.

Reading comprehension required. '[t]he effectiveness of particular interrogation techniques in eliciting information that might not otherwise have been obtained cannot be easily measured'". This doesnt mean what you think it means. It doesnt say that it doesnt work.

And I confirmed the process and what may be said by those being waterboarded. KSM tried it on and told lies to make it stop. He aslo told the truth to make it stop.

Back to my original post and the thorn in your side.................'I have no doubt'. I have no doubt, I have no doubt.................is very relevent because it is what i actually said in my post. As much as you would have liked it, I didnt say 'I know' or 'I have evidence' no matter how many times you ask. It still says 'I have no doubt' ............because using my knowledge of waterboarding and your confirmed knowledge of waterboarding 'I have no doubt' that KSM sang like a canary.

Indeed, your link to Monica Crowley confirms that he sang like a canary and told some lies to make them stop. What truths did he tell? Those are the important ones.

He's a mass murderer and a butcher.......who cares about a few lies! Are those lies enough to say that waterboarding doesnt work? Are the words of a mass murderer and butcher, who confessed before, during and after the process, enough to convince a pen pusher that waterboarding doesnt work? I dont think so!

Did you read the rest of the page?

 

[achimspok]

What's about the hands of that ISI asset who wired the money to Atta?

 

[Jackanory]

Did you read the rest of the page?

Yes......... but why the fuss? To what end? The page states nothing new! What is it that you think it says that is anything different to what I have already stated? You have read what I stated.....yes? Re-read it! No gotcha here!

 

[I Ratant]

You just don't comprehend the large issue.
We Americans CANNOT do torture for any reason, to any person, EVER!
John Marshall, Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, .... all those Founding Fathers
.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_founding_fathers.html
.
would kick your ass past the furthest horizon for even considering torture!
Whether torture works or not, and every authority goes for the "not" we Americans CANNOT do it!
And that is why the stupid ***************** at the CIA performed it overseas, or outsourced it to agents of despicable governments... which are all governments which engage in torture.

Edited by LashL: 

Just type the word and let the auto-censor deal with it instead of trying to circumvent it by spacing out two parts of the same prohibited word.

Just to refresh your memory, this is the LAW!
.
Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified 12/15/1791.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
.
If you don't like it, tough titty.

 

[Jackanory]

You just don't comprehend the large issue.
We Americans CANNOT do torture for any reason, to any person, EVER!
John Marshall, Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, .... all those Founding Fathers
.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_founding_fathers.html
.
would kick your ass past the furthest horizon for even considering torture!
Whether torture works or not, and every authority goes for the "not" we Americans CANNOT do it!
And that is why the stupid ***************** at the CIA performed it overseas, or outsourced it to agents of despicable governments... which are all governments which engage in torture.
Just to refresh your memory, this is the LAW!
.
Amendment 5 - Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified 12/15/1791.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
.
If you don't like it, tough titty.

I dont need to like it! It happens! It needs to happen!

Two choices.........1) Take the moral high ground because your founding fathers say so and permit/allow, when it could be prevented with waterboarding, the act of 9/11 again.

..........................2) Or use a modern term of 'prevention is better than cure'. Intel is part and parcel of that prevention!

"nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself".......does that mean that your lie detectors are illegal? Self implication? Or do your founding fathers permit them when it suits?

Isn't the death penalty by lethal injection legal in the USA? Not here in the UK! Taking the moral highground is hardly the best way to make a point!

Legal to kill a killer but illegal to prevent one by waterboarding? A little messed up that!

 

[dtugg]

Poor KSM. All he did was plot the murder of 3000 people and personally cut the head off of somebody for being a Jew/American. How dare the USA pour water on his face.

Sent from my Samsung Epic 4G using Tapatalk

 

[achimspok]

During my military career, specifically during my numerous postings to Germany, I visited the sites of Auschwitz, Bergen Belsen, Breitenau and Dachau. I also visited Majdanek in Poland. Concentration death camps..........no comparison to waterboarding. Another sick derail!

I tell you what sick is! It is sick to believe that a tortured person is happy about his confession.
A tortured person confesses EVERYTHING just to stay alive. The trick of waterboarding isn't pain. It's the fear of death plus the advantage of little visible damage. Great job!

 

[achimspok]

I dont need to like it! It happens! It needs to happen!

Two choices.........1) Take the moral high ground because your founding fathers say so and permit/allow, when it could be prevented with waterboarding, the act of 9/11 again.

..........................2) Or use a modern term of 'prevention is better than cure'. Intel is part and parcel of that prevention!

"nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself".......does that mean that your lie detectors are illegal? Self implication? Or do your founding fathers permit them when it suits?

Isn't the death penalty by lethal injection legal in the USA? Not here in the UK! Taking the moral highground is hardly the best way to make a point!

Legal to kill a killer but illegal to prevent one by waterboarding? A little messed up that!

The point is, you don't know nothing about what he did or not did. The only thing you know is, what the interrogator wanted him to say. You know nothing, got it? That's why torture is not accepted (in civilized countries).
You would confess you shot Elvis after some nice waterboarding. I hope you will be happy then.

 

[Justin39640]

You speaking for Daniel Pearl without even knowing whether he was in favour of torture?

No, it had nothing to do with the torture of KSM. It was more about a "he got what's coming to him" type of thing. Sorry if it seemed the other way.

Daniel Pearl was an embodiment of humane, civilized values, not barbarism.

Your remark is an insult to him.

See above. Pretty interesting coming from a person who in every 3rd post tells others not to tell her what she is thinking. Hmmmmmmmmmm?

I never said explicitly said that victim's family has called for torture, or even said that torturing was good policy. I'm saying I'm glad KSM was waterboarded, and I believe some of the victim's family members are too.

Knowing a few families that lost loved ones on 9/11, I can confirm that they didn't lose a wink over his discomfort in captivity (to put it lightly).

Personally (throwing rights, humane treatment, etc, etc aside), if convicted for 9/11, I hope they drag KSM behind a firetruck for a five borough tour in March when most of the potholes from plowing aren't fixed yet.

Most New Yorkers would line up like it was the *********** Macy's day parade to see that ****.

 

[achimspok]

HUNT THE VEIN!

 

[I Ratant]

HUNT THE VEIN!
[qimg]http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/9217/rottop00193.png[/qimg]

.
Picky, picky, picky...
I noticed that too.
But then, we do look into photographs, don't we!

 

[dtugg]

I have no idea if torturing the piece of garbage known as KSM led to any useful intelligence. Of course, the CIA responsibly believed it might, so they were fully justified (morally, at least). And if it didn't, oh well. A piece of garbage got what he deserved. So what?

 

[Senenmut]

HUNT THE VEIN!
[qimg]http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/9217/rottop00193.png[/qimg]

ksm was supposedly the one holding the knife in the grainy vid. the guy with the gun was NOT ksm. you gotta find the vid of his beheading to see the the hand with the knife. i sure didnt see a vein. and his arms were not nearly as hairy as ksm's!!

 

[achimspok]

.
Picky, picky, picky...
I noticed that too.
But then, we do look into photographs, don't we!

We do. And if KSM didn't shave his arms and hands then the hand with the gun (wearing a golden ring) is not KSM.
He is probably hairy since he was 16. The hairs on the back of his hand leave a darker area and some transition to skin color. It wouldn't dissappear even in a blurry photograph.

I guess, it would be easier to forensically analyze the exact body height from the pictures then a vene.

 

[I Ratant]

There's been too many misidentified images claiming one thing while illustrating something entirely different to put any credence in claims by the more hysterical.
I personally will never view the Pearl images.
One of the outraged screamers I get e-mails from excerpted some of them from the video... or at least passed on those that some other hater said from the video, and these were too disgusting to view.
I first noticed this problem with CTwinkies when picking up a book by Livingston on JFK, and observing his descriptions of some of the pictures were obviously BS.
Getting a copy of the WCR not long after improved matters a lot, as did getting other CTwinkie crap, useless for text, but nice for images.
Lane, Groden, Lifton, Marrs, Weisberg, all very loosely wrapped or obvious prevaricators.
I've seen the same with the output of the dedicated 9/11 Twinkie.
The hate overwhelms everything, including as in this thread, common American views and laws on the rights of man.
Immature and ignorant, and very saddening and disturbing, to see the ease with which traditional American values are tossed away for the convenient and vengeful quick answer.

 

[triforcharity]

Yes, if by "defend" you mean object to their torture.

Are you going to defend torture?

Yes. All day, every day. No doubt that it is a useful tool. IMO, they should have left his body in the desert for the buzzerds and ants to devour, after they put a .45 ACP bullet through his brain. But hey, that is my irrational, vengeful side peaking through.

 

[triforcharity]

Personally (throwing rights, humane treatment, etc, etc aside), if convicted for 9/11, I hope they drag KSM behind a firetruck for a five borough tour in March when most of the potholes from plowing aren't fixed yet.

Most New Yorkers would line up like it was the *********** Macy's day parade to see that ****.

I'd buy tickets.

 

[triforcharity]

HUNT THE VEIN!
[qimg]http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/9217/rottop00193.png[/qimg]

Wait, we're supposed to hunt the vein in his RIGHT arm, by using a picture of his LEFT arm?


LOL!! No wonder you have such a hard time with photos. Left and right are confusing to you!!

PS. One hand is a rest, and one is not resting at all. I would be willing to bet, that his heart is beating, and his adrenaline is pumping like crazy in the photo with the gun. Yes, this is from personal experience.

 

[JihadJane]

Yes......... but why the fuss? To what end? The page states nothing new! What is it that you think it says that is anything different to what I have already stated? You have read what I stated.....yes? Re-read it! No gotcha here!

You have provided no substantiation for your claim that "the waterboarding of KSM lead to much inteligence about his organisation, other planned attacks, atrocities, people, places, names, training camps, safehouses, weapons, explosives, drugs, money etc etc etc. ................................saving thousands of lives", just a lot of bluster.

Legal to kill a killer but illegal to prevent one by waterboarding? A little messed up that!

You have provided no evidence that waterboarding prevents anything.

See above. Pretty interesting coming from a person who in every 3rd post tells others not to tell her what she is thinking. Hmmmmmmmmmm?

No rational arguments, then, Justin39640..

Knowing a few families that lost loved ones on 9/11, I can confirm that they didn't lose a wink over his discomfort in captivity (to put it lightly).

Personally (throwing rights, humane treatment, etc, etc aside), if convicted for 9/11, I hope they drag KSM behind a firetruck for a five borough tour in March when most of the potholes from plowing aren't fixed yet.

Most New Yorkers would line up like it was the *********** Macy's day parade to see that ****.

UNLoVedRebel wasn't talking about 911 families. He was talking about Daniel Pearl's family.




And now the JREF skeptics lynch mob has arrived. How pretty!