How the Shanksville Crater Was Made

[Travis]

I take it yakee451 lives in a world where an impact with loose particulates said particulates do not fall back into the hole they were blasted out of.

Is Richard Nixon still President in this world also?

Because in this world you would expect a crater to look exactly as it did. That's why in the analysis of crater dynamics there is such a thing as a transient crater and a final crater.

 

[tsig]

If they had a covert program, do you suppose they'd publish the figures of those tests? If it was to be used for something like this, would the figures they released to the public be considered accurate? The missiles were in existence, they fit the eye witness account of a small white plane "no wider than my van", they carry explosives that can account for the size of the center crater, and even their fuselage and wing debris would look like jet parts to an untrained eye.

The only thing missing is to calculate the impact to verify the 12x60 inch dense metal penetrating warheads can account for the gashes, and at what trajectory. The next piece is to make a model predicting the behavior of a 757 on impact. I'm surprised you haven't already done that.

Since I am not an engineer, I need to hire-out for such things, but nothing's stopping you guys from doing the same in support of your positions right now, is there?

"If" is the key word here.

Are you going to listen to the engineers you hire any better than you do the ones here?

 

[tsig]

I don't know, I'll leave that to the engineer.

Since you don't trust the engineers here why would you trust another one?

 

[tsig]

I have proof the missiles existed and according to the existing records, even early testing proved they were pretty damn good and DO have the capabilities of creating the gash in Shanksville.

So when are you going to acquire some and do some actual tests?

 

[aggle-rithm]

The only thing missing is to calculate the impact to verify the 12x60 inch dense metal penetrating warheads can account for the gashes, and at what trajectory. The next piece is to make a model predicting the behavior of a 757 on impact. I'm surprised you haven't already done that.

Since I am not an engineer, I need to hire-out for such things, but nothing's stopping you guys from doing the same in support of your positions right now, is there?

Can a metal penetrating warhead create a hole in a field of loose dirt? Hmmm.... better hire some experts to find out.

 

[tsig]

If you're serious and you can dig up the manual, I am curious what their definition of "aerostable slug is". All sarcasm aside.

It's a 3 inch long red worm that eats rocket fuel.

 

[332nd]

Why is it so difficult to fathom that no jet in the ground means the DNA, the passenger back stories, the flight-paths and everything else associated with the jet must be considered an assumption until it is proven there was a jet in in the ground. This is why I focus on the impacts, because if it can be proven no jet crashed at Shanksville, then all the other questions are moot.

I may be a layperson but I believe, based on the evidence and my humble life experiences, as well as on the capabilities of the missiles, the shape of the gashes, the eye witness accounts and the size of the central crater, that missiles are a better bet than a 757, and until you make a better argument for the gashes, I won't be wasting my time trying to explain the people.

What do you think propagandists do anyway? They make compelling backstories that appeal to emotion, not reason. It is also called advertising.

Wait... Your argument is "If you guys would just ignore every bit of evidence a jet crashed there, you'll see that a jet couldn't have crashed there!" ?

 

[Andy_Ross]

OK, suppose I accept that the missiles were used to create the crater.

How did the DNA and Remains of all the passengers and crew get there?
Were they herded off the aircraft by the FBI or CIA before being killed?
Would they shoot them, poison them, gas them?
Would they be chopped up by hand or would some kind of machine be used?

How many people does it take to murder, dismember and mutilate all those passengers and crew then transport them to the and seed the crater and the area with the bloody remains?
How do you recruit people to do it?

 

[HawksFan]

What would stop the missiles from just skipping off the ground? Or breaking up on contact with the ground and not making your gouges towards the crater? I mean, 10 degrees AOA is pretty shallow for what they were designed to do, which is plow into hardened targets.

 

[LSSBB]

That's nothing.

You should hear the one about the 757 that disappeared into the ground all the way over here, but damaged trees all the way over there.

That's a magic lung-oyster.

Ahhh, I see the problem. You think momentum is magic.

 

[LSSBB]

I have proof the missiles existed and according to the existing records, even early testing proved they were pretty damn good and DO have the capabilities of creating the gash in Shanksville.

Ok, so your conspirators fired three missiles that had a "success" rate of 80%, on momentum defying trajectories, with an overall chance of success of:

Success of 1 x Success of 2 x Success of 3,

thus

0.8 x 0.8 x 0.8 = 0.512 {51.2%}

So they took a smidgen over a 50 / 50 chance (at way best, since your flight path violates physics without retrograde rockets on your missiles), on a brand new missile costing $$$$$$$$$$$$ to make a hole in the ground that looked like a plane, when they could have just crashed a plane into the ground, one that went somewhere anyway because it is missing from inventory and the RADAR and FDR data trails it all the way to the crash site, and no one found it anywhere else.

I don't think even Hollywood would buy that script (well, maybe Bowfinger would).

 

[dafydd]

He explained it but you dismissed it as a "wall of text".

It was just a wall of text to him.

 

[phunk]

What would stop the missiles from just skipping off the ground? Or breaking up on contact with the ground and not making your gouges towards the crater? I mean, 10 degrees AOA is pretty shallow for what they were designed to do, which is plow into hardened targets.

Just take a look at the nose of the jassm, and you'll see that a 10 degree aoa is not going to work very well.

 

[aggle-rithm]

OK, suppose I accept that the missiles were used to create the crater.

How did the DNA and Remains of all the passengers and crew get there?
Were they herded off the aircraft by the FBI or CIA before being killed?
Would they shoot them, poison them, gas them?
Would they be chopped up by hand or would some kind of machine be used?

How many people does it take to murder, dismember and mutilate all those passengers and crew then transport them to the and seed the crater and the area with the bloody remains?
How do you recruit people to do it?

Sounds like the NWO is a classic bureaucracy. There's a simple way to accomplish their goal; that is, crash a plane with all the passengers into the ground. But no, that's not the NWO's style. They have to go with intercepted flights and missiles and passenger-mincing machines.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Sounds like the NWO is a classic bureaucracy. There's a simple way to accomplish their goal; that is, crash a plane with all the passengers into the ground. But no, that's not the NWO's style. They have to go with intercepted flights and missiles and passenger-mincing machines.

Plus they have to fake the radar records and silence the controllers who knew it was fake.

Plus they had to get the passengers remains to the site really quickly before investigators turned up. They almost certainly had to fly them there and mince them en route.

Plus they had to bring in tons of mangled 757 parts and dress up the crash site, without leaving tracks of heavy lifting equipment of course.

Plus they had to identify, intercept and silence any real eyewitnesses and substitute fakes.

Oh, and they had to rescue the dud missile from where it got stuck embedded in the split tree.

All in a day's work for the NWO.



Or they could just have crashed a plane.

 

[beachnut]

Def: Evidence used to refute Fantasy - Wall of Text

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove by shoving a wall of text in my face. Less rant maybe?

Rant? This is a rant - http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread734328/pg1
It amazing you mistake evidence for rant. Is it a defense mechanism to preserver your fantasy of missiles?

Only 5 missiles existed in 2001, and they were all used for test. All the missiles made are accounted for.
Missile fantasy shot down.

The wall of text, what you ignore, it is called evidence.
What is ironic, the Passengers you deny existed and murdered on Flight 93. Those people figured out 911 in minutes and took action. You have had 11 years and you make up a sickly insane fantasy. 11 years, you can't do what Passengers on Flight 93 did in minutes. Looks like some book learning and education, two things you make fun of, could have helped you. Lucky you were not on Flight 93, it might of made it's target, you can't figure out anything on 911, and we gave you the answers, and evidence.


Where is some irony.

Sins are sins, Kristin Gould White believed, but ignorance and boredom were two of the most egregious.

Guess why this is ironic? Go ahead be all you can be; do some reality based research, it might do your brain and heart right.

 

[yankee451]

Ok, so your conspirators fired three missiles that had a "success" rate of 80%, on momentum defying trajectories, with an overall chance of success of:

Success of 1 x Success of 2 x Success of 3,

thus

0.8 x 0.8 x 0.8 = 0.512 {51.2%}

So they took a smidgen over a 50 / 50 chance (at way best, since your flight path violates physics without retrograde rockets on your missiles), on a brand new missile costing $$$$$$$$$$$$ to make a hole in the ground that looked like a plane, when they could have just crashed a plane into the ground, one that went somewhere anyway because it is missing from inventory and the RADAR and FDR data trails it all the way to the crash site, and no one found it anywhere else.

I don't think even Hollywood would buy that script (well, maybe Bowfinger would).

Hollywood probably wrote your script.

Your story has it they scored three out of four direct hits using jets as missiles, but you've got a problem when missiles are used as they're designed.

 

[yankee451]

Rant? This is a rant - http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread734328/pg1
It amazing you mistake evidence for rant. Is it a defense mechanism to preserver your fantasy of missiles?

Only 5 missiles existed in 2001, and they were all used for test. All the missiles made are accounted for.
Missile fantasy shot down.

The wall of text, what you ignore, it is called evidence.
What is ironic, the Passengers you deny existed and murdered on Flight 93. Those people figured out 911 in minutes and took action. You have had 11 years and you make up a sickly insane fantasy. 11 years, you can't do what Passengers on Flight 93 did in minutes. Looks like some book learning and education, two things you make fun of, could have helped you. Lucky you were not on Flight 93, it might of made it's target, you can't figure out anything on 911, and we gave you the answers, and evidence.


Where is some irony.

Guess why this is ironic? Go ahead be all you can be; do some reality based research, it might do your brain and heart right.

Try to focus on explaining how the jet caused the gash, or how missiles did not. I'm working with an engineer to demonstrate what would happen in both instances.

 

[jaydeehess]

I have proof the missiles existed and according to the existing records, even early testing proved they were pretty damn good and DO have the capabilities of creating the gash in Shanksville.

you have yet to show that getting these missiles to hit each others trajectories at 180 degrees,10 degrees down, intersecting 10 feet below the surface is at all possible
you're just making that up

 

[yankee451]

Just take a look at the nose of the jassm, and you'll see that a 10 degree aoa is not going to work very well.

Are you saying the fiberglass nose is what punches through hardened targets?

Wouldn't the fuselage be destroyed on impact, allowing the 900 lb warhead to do its thing?