How homeopathy does work? - 4 Years of DHMS course.

[Jeff Corey]

[derail]

I nominate Rolfe for the:

POSTER DISPLAYING THE MOST PATIENCE OF THE YEAR AWARD

[/derail]

ME two!

 

[M Sarwar]

Hi Skeptics

I have to ask few questions.

1. Do infra rays, mobile rays, radio & TV rays, solar rays and x-rays etc effect on body?

If the answer is yes, then the question is

1. To bring chemical change in the body, do we need some molecules or these rays can bring some change in the chemical system of the body?

If the answer is in "Yes", then why to pressurize homeopaths that their medicines have no molecules, that's why, these medicines cannot bring chemical change in the body?

 

[Donks]

Hi Skeptics

I have to ask few questions.

1. Do infra rays, mobile rays, radio & TV rays, solar rays and x-rays etc effect on body?

Some do. You might want to look up the proper terminology if you want to know exactly which ones do.

If the answer is yes, then the question is

1. To bring chemical change in the body, do we need some molecules or these rays can bring some change in the chemical system of the body?

No. EM radiation is not made of molecules, and it can have an effect on the body.

If the answer is in "Yes",

I'll assume you meant "If the answer is 'No'," because otherwise your analogy would have failed.

then why to pressurize homeopaths that their medicines have no molecules, that's why, these medicines cannot bring chemical change in the body?

Because a 30C remedy does not emit any sort of unsual radiation not seen on the stock solvent. If your theory is that homeopathy works by interaction of photons and molecules (shades of Kumar), you're missing the photons.

 

[Rolfe]

1. Do infra rays, mobile rays, radio & TV rays, solar rays and x-rays etc effect on body?

If the answer is yes, then the question is

1. To bring chemical change in the body, do we need some molecules or these rays can bring some change in the chemical system of the body?

If the answer is in "Yes", then why to pressurize homeopaths that their medicines have no molecules, that's why, these medicines cannot bring chemical change in the body?

I'm picking up on the last question. ".... why to pressurize homeopaths that their medicines have no molecules, that's why, these medicines cannot bring chemical change in the body?"

If you can show that homoeopathic remedies emit EM radiation in a form which can firstly affect the body and secondly affect it in such a way as to heal disease, then that would also be a possible mode of action. However, they do not. No such radiation can be detected.

To be more clear. For "high-potency" homoeopathic remedies, there is no way at all that the potentised remedy differs from the stock solvent. No molecules of the mother tincture, no other unexpected molecules of any other substance, no mysterious energies, no EM radiation different from that of the stock solvent, and no patterns or memories.

This is why it does not work. And funnily enough, whenever any well-designed controlled trial is done, gosh, look, it doesn't work.

Rolfe.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Hi Skeptics

I have to ask few questions.

1. Do infra rays, mobile rays, radio & TV rays, solar rays and x-rays etc effect on body?

Some do, some don't. Depends much on intensity

If the answer is yes, then the question is

1. To bring chemical change in the body, do we need some molecules or these rays can bring some change in the chemical system of the body?

These ray can make whatever changes they do without molecules.

If the answer is in "Yes", then why to pressurize homeopaths that their medicines have no molecules, that's why, these medicines cannot bring chemical change in the body?

Because, ..drum roll:

Homeopathic medicines do not emit any kind of rays

We seem to be back to square one.

Hans

 

[wahrheit]

Quote from a "new" homeopathic web-site (click on "update"), it's design and origin are the same like that of the other sites we recently visited.

Vet Dr. Hafiz Mati met with Chief Minister of Punjab and briefed him about the good status of homeopathy. He informed the CM that there is no cure in allopathy against viral diseases but homeopathy has an excellent reputation against such diseases. [...] and the efficacy has been proved and tested.

I wonder what prosecution authorities think of such statements.

 

[Mojo]

1. Do infra rays, mobile rays, radio & TV rays, solar rays and x-rays etc effect on body?

If the answer is yes, then the question is

1. To bring chemical change in the body, do we need some molecules or these rays can bring some change in the chemical system of the body?

If the answer is in "Yes", then why to pressurize homeopaths that their medicines have no molecules, that's why, these medicines cannot bring chemical change in the body?

As Hans has mentioned, the effects can be dependent upon intensity. They are also dependent on wavelength. The energy carried by a photon depends on its wavelength; the shorter the wavelength, the higher the energy. Sufficiently energetic photons can certainly effect the body, but the effects tend not to be beneficial to health (to say the least). If homeopathic remedies were emitting radiation of the sort of wavelength capable of having an effect on the body, they would be pretty hazardous to have around, and homeopaths would have a pretty low life expectancy.

Fortunately for homeopaths (although maybe not for their patients), homeopathic remedies do not emit electromagnetic radiation in any way that is different from their stock solvent.

If you feel that homeopathic remedies work by emitting some sort of radiation, perhaps you could demonstrate this by devising an experiment to detect this radiation. If you can do this, you could win a million dollars.

 

[Non-Sense Homeopath]

Rolfe-Quote

If you can show that homoeopathic remedies emit EM radiation in a form which can firstly affect the body and secondly affect it in such a way as to heal disease, then that would also be a possible mode of action. However, they do not. No such radiation can be detected.

No this not true, in homeopathy there are few medicines which have raditations in them like x-rays 30 and solo 30 etc. When x-ray was prepared its dilution was exposed to x-rays for considerable time.

M sarwar, please ask this question to skeptics

If you expose a dilution to x-rays for hours and if you drink that dilution in different intervals, does that x-ray dilution effect the body?

 

[Zep]

Rolfe-Quote


No this not true, in homeopathy there are few medicines which have raditations in them like x-rays 30 and solo 30 etc. When x-ray was prepared its dilution was exposed to x-rays for considerable time.

M sarwar, please ask this question to skeptics

If you expose a dilution to x-rays for hours and if you drink that dilution in different intervals, does that x-ray dilution effect the body?

Non-Sense H, why don't you just ask the question straight out yourself?

Oh, you already did...



Here's questions for you, N-S H:

In what way do X-rays affect plain water?
Are any of these effects permanent? Long-lasting?
Does water "hold" X-rays? If so, how?
What form do X-rays take when they are diluted?

 

[Jeff Corey]

How about n rays, Nancy?

 

[Non-Sense Homeopath]

M Sarwar, Two discussion boards are running side by side. Few members have registeration at both forums. Although we cannot see "WHO IS WHO?" or a member of having same name is exactly the same the person at other forum just like we cannot say, this non-sense homeopath (I, myself) member is the same at other forum with the same name non-sense but one of the {MOJO} member at

http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=28&st=30

admitted that homeopathic potency does work in 6x and asked then what?

 

[Zep]

Ignoring the questions, I see... Typical.

Non-Sense, we were asking about 30X dilutions being the same as placebo, not 6X dilutions.

AND we were also asking you to show that 6X dilutions do what you say they do under Hanhemann's "like cures like" laws.

Those are two different questions - DO YOU UNDERSTAND? If not, please go back and read Rolfe's and everyone else's excellent explanations.

So do you want to answer either of these questions sensibly?

 

[Homeo Man]

M Sarwar, Two discussion boards are running side by side. Few members have registeration at both forums. Although we cannot see "WHO IS WHO?" or a member of having same name is exactly the same the person at other forum just like we cannot say, this non-sense homeopath (I, myself) member is the same at other forum with the same name non-sense but one of the {MOJO} member at

http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=28&st=30

admitted that homeopathic potency does work in 6x and asked then what?

Mojo, are You the person who appeared as guest at www.nchpakistan.com discussion forum?

 

[flume]

Mojo, are You the person who appeared as guest at www.nchpakistan.com discussion forum?

He already posted that he was not.

 

[Mojo]

Mojo, are You the person who appeared as guest at www.nchpakistan.com discussion forum?

As flume has already pointed out, I have already posted in this thread that that was not me. I'm going to be charitable here, and assume that you and Non-Sense homeopath were simply too stupid to understand the previous post, rather than dishonest. Any future repetition will reveal you as a liar.

Edited to add: For the record, it is my opinion (based on the available evidence) that homeopathy is a complete sham, and that anyone pretending otherwise is a fraud or a fool.

 

[Rolfe]

in homeopathy there are few medicines which have raditations in them like x-rays 30 and solo 30 etc. When x-ray was prepared its dilution was exposed to x-rays for considerable time.

Objects which are exposed to X-rays do not normally start emitting X-rays (or other EM radiation) themselves. Do you have proof that these homoeopathic remedies emit X-rays?

Do you therefore agree that all the homoeopathic remedies which are not exposed to X-rays cannot and do not work?

Rolfe.

 

[MRC_Hans]

No this not true, in homeopathy there are few medicines which have raditations in them like x-rays 30 and solo 30 etc. When x-ray was prepared its dilution was exposed to x-rays for considerable time.

No, they don't have X-rays in them. They have, perhaps have X-rays sent through them, but they are not IN them.

M sarwar, please ask this question to skeptics

Why should he, since you alreadydid?

If you expose a dilution to x-rays for hours and if you drink that dilution in different intervals, does that x-ray dilution effect the body?

No. [tm]

Hans

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

M Sarwar, Two discussion boards are running side by side. Few members have registeration at both forums. Although we cannot see "WHO IS WHO?" or a member of having same name is exactly the same the person at other forum just like we cannot say, this non-sense homeopath (I, myself) member is the same at other forum with the same name non-sense but one of the {MOJO} member at

http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=28&st=30

admitted that homeopathic potency does work in 6x and asked then what?

Admitted?

The thing about lying, my naughty little homeopath, is that you should not rely on facts that are so easily checked.

Gaga said;

"6x means one part in a million (right?) I'm not even sure that that's homeopathic.
Anyway it just means that there's a discrete quantity of the original substance in the carrier, if that means that it will cure you, well that's largely debatable, since no one here cared to explain so far the logic of "like cures like""

and Hans said;

"From the skeptical viewpoint tree things in homeopathy must be challenged:

1) The existence of a "Vital Force" that regulates health

2) The truth of "Like Cures Like"

3) The physiological effect of high-potency remedies.

Obviously, for 6X (1ppm) dilutions, only #1 and #2 apply. If the mother tincture is one that can be expected to have a physiological effect in 1ppm concentration, we have no reason to say that this effect is not there, just becaue it is used homeopathically. That is not the same as saying that it "works", however. By the term "work" I must assume that you mean is able to cure disease, which is entirely another thing.

Since only few of the mother tinctures used in homeopathy can be expected to have any significant effect in small doses in 1ppm concentration, and even less can be expected to cure diseases, the answer to your question must be:

Not likely, and even less likely in a homeopathic fashion (like cures like).

OK, maybe you don't understand the answer (apaprantly you did not understand it the other times it was explained), but there it is, so kindly stop saying it was bypassed."


Now you pop up again and say "
admitted that homeopathic potency does work in 6x and asked then what?"

Did you not understand the answers you have been given multiple times or do you just lie and hope no one notices? Do you feel you are a good representative of the homeopathic community with your dishonest behaviour?

 

[Rolfe]

I think they just lie. They don't even need any basis for a false statement most of the time, they just say what they want to say and think if they repeat it often enough, people will believe them.

But then they have lots of practice in that, don't they, because that's what all of homoeoapthy is about. Telling the same lies again and again until some people start to believe them.

Rolfe.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Non-Sense,

I quite forgot my etiquette for a moment.

Did you not understand the answers you have been given multiple times or do you just lie and hope no one notices? Do you feel you are a good representative of the homeopathic community with your dishonest behaviour?

There. Is that better?