Houla Massacre, Syria: What If?

[Virus]

How come? Because Christians lie, like Russians? Or do you think there are no persecuted Christians? Ask the Iraqi refugees in Syria.

edit: website here

Didn't you support the Iraqi "resistance" that did the persecuting?

 

[Childlike Empress]

Didn't you support the Iraqi "resistance" that did the persecuting?

No, I opposed the Iraq war which predictably destroyed the country. And the lies leading up to it.

 

[Virus]

No, I opposed the Iraq war which predictably destroyed the country. And the lies leading up to it.

Evasion expected and noted.

 

[Childlike Empress]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_Iraq

Syria had taken in roughly a million refugees by December 2006, with it possible as many as half of them were Assyrian Christians. Most of them had settled in and around the city and suburbs of Damascus. The reason for its large refugee population can be attributed to more than just geography. Syria maintained an open-door policy to Iraqis fleeing the war-ravaged country. In the case of the Assyrian Christians, Syria has a large Assyrian and Syriac Christian population, and many Assyrians have found help and support from them.

Now many are on the run again, to Lebanon, Jordan and elsewhere. Meanwhile:

According to Washington based Refugees International the U.S. has admitted fewer than 800 Iraqi refugees since the invasion

 

[Caustic Logic]

Another british journalist tried to go to al Qubair with UN observers. He reports: Set up to be shot in Syria's no man's land?

I’m quite clear the rebels deliberately set us up to be shot by the Syrian Army. Dead journos are bad for Damascus.

Wow, another case of strange teamwork.

Too bad for them he lived. I'm impressed with this journo's ability, compared to most others, to ride a fine line making subtle accusations others wouldn't dare. He's still a journo and not even barely, but hints of honesty are present, at least in his reports from Libya.

The options are:
1) as he says, the rebels send someone to the loyalist snipers, they mindlessly provide the propaganda points the rebels desire, with or without awareness a high-profile journalist (would be the biggest since Colvin) was in the area. The rebels would be more to blame, knowing who they're sending where.
2) Those "FSA" helpers were really Assad's Alawite ninjas in disguise (their car was black, right?)
3) The army snipers were actually rebel snipers hoping to have "army snipers" blamed for killing another prominent journalist, who ideally wouldn't live to explain the set-up.

Might be good grounds for a lawsuit.

In a war where they slit the throats of toddlers back to the spine, what’s the big deal in sending a van full of journalists into the killing zone?

By saying "in a war," he avoids attributing the one action to any side. The other action he's "quite clear" on. But the statement would maybe be more true if he said "with an opposition that slits..."

 

[trustbutverify]

For me, this settled the issue.

This was a massacre done by foreign Wahhabist terrorists, with help from local rebels, who used sectarian differences for their heinous crimes which they then filmed themselves and presented their victims to the UN observers to fool them and make it look like "the army" did it, to fuel the fire of already deceived international opinion for a "humanitarian" intervention. Given the proven false pictures and the long story of falsely attributed videos, I give no credence to the "shelling" part of the story at all.

So you mean to say that, after frantically scouring the internet for any cherry picked item- no matter how dubious the source- that agree's with your pre-selected conclusion, you have now been convinced of something you would have "believed" no matter what the evidence?

I'm surprised. This is so out of character for you.

 

[Caustic Logic]

On persecuted Christians, we actually have an example from Libya. Reported anyway:

Slaughter of a Christian maths teacher in Benghazi. He was found in a school with his throat cut. Mr. Zia Sheva was Christian Egyptian teacher who lived in Libya for many years.
(Source: Libyan Liberal Youth on Facebook spreading the facts for the future of Libya)

http://libyasos.blogspot.com/2012/04/libyan-resistance-news13042012.html

Not many Christians there, though. The real test will be in this uprising of the Sunni majority in Syria.

There was that guy in Syria last year who was famously sliced all over and made to march through town covered in his own blood, for being a Christian. There are videos of that but I forget his name. Is that persecution?

 

[geni]

How come? Because Christians lie, like Russians? Or do you think there are no persecuted Christians? Ask the Iraqi refugees in Syria.

Because if Assad falls christians are no.2 in terms of groups who are going to suffer. As a result they have a signficant incentive to lie to keep him in power.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Ok, CE, so China is on board with Russia? All that means is that there are two vetos to overcome for "legitimized" collective action via UN.

The Saudi route appears to be more likely, and messiness.

geni, Christians being persecuted in Iraq didn't take long after Saddam fell. That isn't a pack of lies.

Christians being worried about being a persecuted minority in Syria, having seen the fun and games in Iraq and Egypt in the past half of a decade, are not being paranoid. Sadly for them, if they throw in their lot with Assad, there will be a reckoning when Assad finally falls.

The West won't take them in, that was amply demonstrated by GW Bush in the Chaldean Christians in Iraq.

They better start stockpiling arms. They will need them soon.

This ain't gonna be pretty.

 

[angrysoba]

So there will soon be a mass slaughter between genocidal fascist Assad and his genocidal fascist following (supported, apparently, by genocidal fascist supporting supporters CE and CL) against extreme Wahabist Islamist Jihadis supported by Virus, trust but verify and Toontown.


The situation sounds quite horrible and I wish I could see through the mess as clearly as they obviously can.

 

[trustbutverify]

So there will soon be a mass slaughter between genocidal fascist Assad and his genocidal fascist following (supported, apparently, by genocidal fascist supporting supporters CE and CL) against extreme Wahabist Islamist Jihadis supported by Virus, trust but verify and Toontown.


The situation sounds quite horrible and I wish I could see through the mess as clearly as they obviously can.

Can you show me where I have supported extreme Wahabist Islamist Jihadis, angry soba?

 

[angrysoba]

Can you show me where I have supported extreme Wahabist Islamist Jihadis, angry soba?

Just as trying to find out who is responsible for this massacre is not supporting Assad I don't think you do. [By the way, please quote the whole sentence if you are going to quote me.]

 

[trustbutverify]

Just as trying to find out who is responsible for this massacre is not supporting Assad I don't think you do. [By the way, please quote the whole sentence if you are going to quote me.]

I quoted both of your sentences.

And the responsible parties have already been identified. They are the child throat slitting rebels. Of course.

 

[angrysoba]

I quoted both of your sentences.

Sorry, I just meant wrt my last. It was my bad wording as I was (perhaps unfairly) anticipating only a part of my response such as "I don't think you do" being quoted. I apologize.

 

[trustbutverify]

Sorry, I just meant wrt my last. It was my bad wording as I was (perhaps unfairly) anticipating only a part of my response such as "I don't think you do" being quoted. I apologize.

No problem.

 

[Childlike Empress]

National Review has picked up the FAZ report (which was front page in the print edition btw) and mentions yet another set of witnesses:

[...] The FAZ report echoes eyewitness accounts collected from refugees from the Houla region by members of the Monastery of St. James in Qara, Syria. According to monastery sources cited by the Dutch Middle East expert Martin Janssen, armed rebels murdered “entire Alawi families” in the village of Taldo in the Houla region. [...]

 

[Childlike Empress]

Ok, CE, so China is on board with Russia? All that means is that there are two vetos to overcome for "legitimized" collective action via UN.

That's not news. China vetoed together with Russia the last two times. There will be no UN legitimized intervention, period. But Susan "Viagra" Rice (liked that, CL) already said that the US might be willing to put together a coalition of the coerced like with Iraq. Hopefully she's just running her unwashed war criminal mouth - the consequences for international relationships would be dire. Not to speak of the Syrians.

The SCO is not only Russia and China, btw, and you can add ALBA, which is much of South America and has their TeleSur reporters on the ground, to the undeceived as well.

 

[Caustic Logic]

So there will soon be a mass slaughter between genocidal fascist Assad and his genocidal fascist following (supported, apparently, by genocidal fascist supporting supporters CE and CL) against extreme Wahabist Islamist Jihadis supported by Virus, trust but verify and Toontown.

Well put and clever, though you might have an issue with your coupling of "between" and "against." I would predict something between them if the opposition gets to repeat Libya there. Other bad things would probably come of it as well. But I personally doubt the regime is interested in any genocidal violence if they're able to survive this crisis. Some serious arrests, etc., sure, but no genocide against the Sunnis.

The situation sounds quite horrible and I wish I could see through the mess as clearly as they obviously can.

It's horrible, and all the efforts to boost the opposition to end the crisis (on the acceptable terms requiring an end to Assad regime) might have made it way worse. I have my opinion and I've been none-too-subtle with it. But really, what bugs me that I had to shake up, was the trance of certainty I imagined everyone was in. The real problem is how flippant we can be with matters this serious, and run such massive risks with no responsibility to make sure we're punishing the guilty instead of rewarding them and handing a whole nation's people over to their care.

Can I highlight one extremely irresponsible - and awkwardly-worded - quote?

Alistair Burt, UK Minister for the Middle East, said, "We are not planning military action and we've already expressed our concerns in relation to putting more arms and weaponry in the area, but if massacres like this are to continue, if situations like this gets worse, then I'm not sure it's possible for the international community to say at this stage that no further action could possibly be considered in any circumstances.."

http://www.china.org.cn/video/2012-05/27/content_25487790.htm

That is, we might have to intervene - against Assad, obviously, rather than in assistance to - if these killings continue or get worse. Message received, but it's not worse enough yet. Where does it go from here? Escalation or draw-down?

They've just made another powerful enemy trying to false-flag Alex Thomson to the grave, and all the leaks and counter-testimonies getting through the less-controlled channels. Draw-down is looking possible (most pragmatic), despite the foreign office's diligent efforts to get more people killed and force their own hand.

 

[WildCat]

National Review has picked up the FAZ report (which was front page in the print edition btw) and mentions yet another set of witnesses:

The usual end result when a dictatorial minority group rules with an iron fist over the majority. Eventually the torture, murders, and imprisonment of those who dare oppose the ruling regime fails to deter the populace.

Did you root for the white minority regime in South Africa too CE?

 

[Childlike Empress]

The usual end result when a dictatorial minority group rules with an iron fist over the majority. Eventually the torture, murders, and imprisonment of those who dare oppose the ruling regime fails to deter the populace.

Yeah, that's the point when the victims usually start slaughtering children. Come back when you have a clue about the topic.

angrysoba, I hope you noticed that one side provides evidence from a variety of sources while the other side provides nothing but slanderous little remarks and doesn't even begin to touch any evidence.