Houla Massacre, Syria: What If?

[MaGZ]

I hope the CIA is arming the Syrian resistance.

Assad killed US troops. It's imperative that anyone who dares do that be made to regret it.

Are you refering to the barracks bombing in Lebanon?

 

[Caustic Logic]

Are you refering to the barracks bombing in Lebanon?

I presume that's what he meant, but it's off topic, so let's keep it all brief. Which means.

 

[Childlike Empress]

nowadays this ward is used to describe unemployed and trouble making youth

I have suspected for quite some time that the word "shabiha" just doesn't mean to the locals what the reporters think it means.

Remember the alleged rebel-turned-witness ANNA spoke to? That could be a local "shabiha" youth, as he describes how he is part of local smugglers/small criminals. Yet he turned himself in after he witnessed what the terrorists coming from Rastan did to the children.

The video of that interview contains him pointing out locations of the respective family houses on google maps, btw.

 

[Caustic Logic]

I have suspected for quite some time that the word "shabiha" just doesn't mean to the locals what the reporters think it means.

Remember the alleged rebel-turned-witness ANNA spoke to? That could be a local "shabiha" youth, as he describes how he is part of local smugglers/small criminals. Yet he turned himself in after he witnessed what the terrorists coming from Rastan did to the children.

The video of that interview contains him pointing out locations of the respective family houses on google maps, btw.

Fair point. SANA says he “said that he used to accompany the gunmen and knew the details of their work, and that three days before the massacre, the gunmen had been discussing something that would happen on Friday, saying that it was something "special and big.""

Could The term mean the same rebel circles they say he ran with? I'd say this: to the extent a witness only says "it was the Shabiha," the meaning could be vague. But these are rebel witnesses who beg for intervention and all that. And most of them are quite clear on the killers being "Assad's Shabiha," "Alawite pigs," covered by the army's fire, accompanied by the army, etc.

So I don't think that point will go far.

(See the PM I'll send in a minute. )

 

[Childlike Empress]

Yes, it will certainly not clear up the conundrum, just a thought reading that comment.

 

[Toontown]

But of Romney is elected the US and the UK probably will attack Syria.

Your claim is not supported by Romney's actual stance.

http://articles.boston.com/2012-06-19/nation/32300737_1_mitt-romney-zone-arming

In fact, Romney's public position differs meaningfully from Obama's public position only on the issue of arming the rebels.

 

[Caustic Logic]

UN report into the massacre of 108 people at al-Houla, Syria, due to be pubished tomorrow

http://twitter.com/alextomo/statuses/217621640043970564

Alex is a specially invested source now, as someone who's supposed to have been a victim of another regime killing shortly after Houla. Thankfully, that set-up failed. Anyway, looking forward to it. I expect it will support the war effort one way or another, and will require a solid de-bunk that will take too long and be seen too narrowly.

 

[bigjelmapro]

...
Now you're reading Clinton's statement that Assad needs to go, but in a way that ensures as much as possible that there is no chaos and uncertainty in the aftermath (something that she says has no easy or straightforward solution), as her actually saying "Assad must be removed at any cost, chaos and uncertainty and consequences be damned!"

Good responses all round, too bad this has already been handwaved away and ignored all together in regular fashion.

Just another day....

 

[bigjelmapro]

For my part, Clinton didn't lie, but she did somehow give a false impression of new Russian arms sales, as a big thing that must be stopped, when instead it was repairs on three attack helicopters. And, apparently, an aspect of their air defense system, which might have been the real concern as the West prepares to bomb Syria.

Sending of 15 mil-24 attack helicopters. These hapless attempts to make attack helicopters seem innocuous doesn't quite work unless you're speaking to the naive useful idiots on this forum.

How many machine guns, mortars, anti-tank or anti-aircraft missile systems have been shipped to the rebels with no complaints? How many tanks have they stolen and soldiers they stolen and erased or replaced like body-snatchers, with no protest?

Any confirmed? Or just alleged? What I've read so far are logistics support, ie communications, etc. Nothing along the line of the Apache equivalent, or the means to shoot down Mi-24's like back in Afghanistan circa 1980's.

It does, however, look like the 'but but, the Americans are sending weapons too' without a shred of proof is being put to good use. Whilst Russian diplomats harp on about the actual ship where Mil-24 attack helicopters are being ships in direct violation of the EU arms embargo. Be sure to make note where this ship was first spotted.....

Actual rebuttal or just another half-baked fog-screen?

 

[Caustic Logic]

One last note I should have done when it crossed my mind-I don't mean to downplay the helicopters. Though not new, they are for attacking, and are deadly weapons. And though they belong to Syria already, Russia should keep them, to be in line with EU laws saying the government is not allowed to put down the rebellion in their country.

Now I'm done with the helicopters.

And as for the Libyan weapons, no I have no solid figures, but I'm sure some large amount of weaponry has been sent by the Libyans anyway. Did you know the NTC considers the SNC Syria's legit gov't and the FSA it's army? No problem on their end helping the gov't put down the Assad rebels controlling 90% of the country. Exact amounts, types, offloading points, smuggling routes, number of fighters coming along, all unknown. No one over here is trying to figure it out or complain - we're discussing arming them ourselves, so why be upset if someone else already is?

Problem is someone on the rebel side has been slaughtering families and blaming the government. And they're making up stories about the "Alawite pigs" doing it, setting up major ethnic problems once they get the "freedom" our leaders want so badly for them. And clearly they'll be well-armed by then...

 

[Childlike Empress]

There was another mass murder on Friday, in "rebel" controlled Daret Azzeh. Two dozen death, several missing, confirmed by both SANA and (a) SOHR according to WSWS (unfortunately they still haven't figured out what "links" are):

[...] Video footage released Friday, apparently by individuals close to the opposition, shows around a dozen bloodied bodies strewn around the village, some piled on top of each other, others dumped in a shallow grave. At least two of the corpses wear military-style uniforms. The unidentified narrator of the video claims that the victims were members of the shabiha, a pro-government militia. [...]

 

[Virus]

SANA. World Socialist Web Site. Do you think we're all stupid?

 

[Toontown]

It's a work in progress. If you are exposed to enough of her indoctrination, sooner or later your eyes will glaze over.

 

[trustbutverify]

There was another mass murder on Friday, in "rebel" controlled Daret Azzeh. Two dozen death, several missing, confirmed by both SANA and (a) SOHR according to WSWS (unfortunately they still haven't figured out what "links" are):

 

[MG1962]

Anyone up for a proxy war between Turkey and Syria?

 

[Childlike Empress]

Nice hiliting of your bias there, trustbutverify. The important part is "by both SANA and (a) SOHR". The event and the death toll, that is. And WSWS is reliable in a way that their factual claims (here: about the SANA and SOHR reporting) turned out to be true every time I checked, whether you like their politics or not. I'm sure one could find the video mentioned in my quote quite easily, maybe you care to "verify" what they claim about it.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Here boys, from Voice of America, so it must be true.

[...] The U.N. special envoy's comments came after Syrian activists said 26 men reported to be pro-government “shabiha” militia fighters were killed in an ambush in the northern Aleppo province.

Rami Abdelrahman, the head of the Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, told VOA on Friday that he received a video showing the bloodied bodies of the men piled on the side of a road.

“Over 26 people following the Syrian regime were killed west of Aleppo… this morning the people there said these people are from shabiha. We cannot confirm this, but we have received a video with over 26 bodies.”

In an apparent reference to the same incident, Syrian state media reported Friday that at least 25 people were killed by “armed terrorists” in the same region outside Aleppo.

The Observatory said it could not confirm whether the victims were civilians, as Syrian state media reported, or shabiha militants, who have been blamed for a series of deadly attacks on civilians in recent months. [...]

 

[trustbutverify]

Nice hiliting of your bias there, trustbutverify. The important part is "by both SANA and (a) SOHR". The event and the death toll, that is. And WSWS is reliable in a way that their factual claims (here: about the SANA and SOHR reporting) turned out to be true every time I checked, whether you like their politics or not. I'm sure one could find the video mentioned in my quote quite easily, maybe you care to "verify" what they claim about it.

What's wrong childlike empress? Prisonplanet and Rense not pro-Assad enough for you?

 

[Caustic Logic]

The 25 or so killed in the north was already brought up by Captain Sassy, with a few details (last page or so).

What's wrong childlike empress? Prisonplanet and Rense not pro-Assad enough for you?

Bobert the clever one: WSWS and SANA both report something, you dismiss the something as clearly untrue since unreliable commie/tyrant sources made the claims. So is VoA also lying that these videos and claims exist, or was your self-amused show of derision totally pointless?

Time for a new screen name? Trust and nothing else for one side, ignore blindly and laugh for the other. Actual truth? Clueless. Can you place Syria on a map, even?

 

[Caustic Logic]

And that goes for Virus and Toontown double, of course. Ignore and evade tactics and blind ridicule are clear enough signs of intellectual bankruptcy. You'd deny this year has 366 days if WSWS happened to print it, and give each other chuckle-filled slaps on the back over the clever move.

Do you think we're all stupid?

Come back and celebrate sometime after engaging the information, at least.