Houla Massacre, Syria: What If?

[Caustic Logic]

As regards Sunni members of Mr Assad's Shabiha, the FSA has a simpler tactic. "There are many cases of Sunni joining the Shabiha in Aleppo," Haji al-Saleh noted. "There are two main Sunni families there, the Bari and Baqqarah, who have been supporting the regime. But now we've killed the heads of both families the situation is improving. Many Shabiha are coming to us to lay down their weapons."

Can I re-post that again for emphasis? This is clearly another Assad propagandist working undercover. Please don't get your info from the dictator. If he was real FSA, it would show the regime is right, there's a rebel tactic of killing families or heads of them based on things like being Sunni yet still supporting the government.

The Al-Mashlab and Al-Sayed families were alleged to be just that. Despite what they told the world about the tragedy against Sunni opposition families in Taldou/Houla, did the situation for rebels there actually "improve" after the slaughter? Can we see the civil war coming to a head along ethnic lines, in slow motion? Possibly.

As the West moans about war (meaning resistance to the takeover instead of abject surrender), are they supporting, arming, and encouraging the side that seems to be methodically programming the future genocide that's bound to follow the war (or maybe even after the surrender at this point)?

 

[Darth Rotor]

I wasn't near the news for the last few days, took a break from all things electronic.

Is the fighting increasing in intensity or decreasing?

And how about the Russian ship with spare helicopter parts and repaired attack helicopters. Is that "stalled" at sea over the insurance withdrawal, or is it on the move again?

Any ideas?

 

[Captain.Sassy]

I thought the insurance cancellation was an interesting example of the fungibility of corporate/economic power, though the insurance company does say it revoked the ship's insurance because of a violation of the terms and not because of pressure from the UK government...

AFAIK it's still turned back.

Fighting intensity is generally up of late. UN monitors are going to stick around, apparently. The Syrian government says it will help/allow evacuation of Homs, but says the rebels are scuttling the evacuation; rebels, of course, say the opposite.

Paul Danahar's article 'The Intractable Syrian Conflict' or something like that is a reasonable read. He's no fan of Assad, and brings a more balanced perspective to what's going on than you usually get in the news.

Here ya go:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18420858

 

[Captain.Sassy]

Foreign interests fuelling Syria conflict - UN observer head

Head of the UN Observer Mission in Syria Major General Robert Mood has said he believes foreign interests are fuelling the conflict in Syria by providing money and weapons.

However, he would not say whether Western countries were involved.

Maj Gen Mood said: ''We are pretty sure, through our dialogues, that there are supplies of both money and weapons and also presence of other parties on [the] ground.''

''They have not come from the villages in Syria. We believe we have seen parties from outside Syria contribute to the spiral of violence in a very non-constructive way.''

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0605/un-observer-says-foreign-actors-at-work-in-syria.html

Could be referencing Iran just as well as he could be referencing Saudi Arabia or foreign islamist fighters like this guy:

"As chaos escalates, the regime will be weakened and so will the FSA," he said. "In the end, the people will join the jihadists."

Ghia is one of hundreds of foreign Sunni fighters said to have crossed Syria's borders to fight the Alawite-dominated regime.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...o-syrias-carnage/story-fnb64oi6-1226397802589

 

[Caustic Logic]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0605/un-observer-says-foreign-actors-at-work-in-syria.html

Could be referencing Iran just as well as he could be referencing Saudi Arabia or foreign islamist fighters like this guy:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...o-syrias-carnage/story-fnb64oi6-1226397802589

Yeah, Russian and Iranian militants... It's pretty clear what Mr. weird Mood refers to, but he has to be cryptic for some reason. Will the West latch onto the possibility the regime is bringing in foreigners to increase the violence? Probably not. Will they, can they, ignore his imprecise mumblings?

An interesting related allegation-via Thierry Meyssan, until I can track down a more primary source:

In Turkey, opposition legislators have visited the Syrian refugee camps. They have confirmed the absence of more than one thousand refugees registered by the United Nations in the main camp and noted, by contrast, the presence of an arsenal in the camp. They have also demanded in Parliament that Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan reveal the rising amount of humanitarian aid being given to phantom refugees. The deputies maintain that the refugee camp is a cover for a secret military operation, sheltering in reality combatants, principally Libyans who are using it as a rear base. The deputies are asserting that the combatants are those who were introduced in the district of Houla when the massacre was being perpetrated.

http://bbs.chinadaily.com.cn/thread-753542-1-1.html

6-7-800 estimated, one witness describes "thousands" of rebel fighters in Houla.

Another. Sorry, no equivalent article from CNN:
http://www.rt.com/news/syria-foreign-insurgents-terror-974/

Consultant and peace activist Christoph R. Hörstel told RT that his information “is directly obtained from Syrian security personnel of various origins personally taking part in battles and other operations, and/or close relatives of such personnel – some are even well-known people".
“The information reaches me through a partner in Turkey. I counter-check all information obtained this way as best as possible under the circumstances,” Hörstel said.

Insurgents and terrorists are trying to infiltrate back to the lost strongholds in Hafeh and Idlib. They try to return from the rural areas, but face strong army resistance in these areas, plus in Homs and Hama. As the rebels lost most of their weapon stockpiles, they intend now to carry out terror attacks in civilian areas, using improvised bombs.

On the other hand, especially in Hafeh, it is understood that the insurgents are not capable of invading towns and town centers, even not in smaller villages. The only safe haven for the fighters seems to be right now Idlib's rural surroundings and forested stretches, reaching into the terror camps in neighboring Turkey.

Military deployment and logistic support operations are going on around town centers, rural villages close to cities are being shelled by the army, as soon as the presence of insurgents is verified.

After the capture of an ex-Guantanamo detainee in Homs as an alleged terror network mastermind, Syrian security is now researching this subject in-depth. In future, Syria may take some of these foreign elements to be dealt with in court under live TV coverage.

Some other captives mentioned are Portuguese and German. All difficult to verify, of course.

 

[Virus]

Thierry Meyssan is a 9/11 truther who says the Beslan massacre was orchestrated by the CIA.

Instead of listening to loons, don't listen to loons. Unfortunately loons and loon blogs are your bread and butter.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Yeah.

Hey, CS, CE, anyone else, nay-sayers, here's my proposal:
http://ciwclibya.org/syria.html

 

[Childlike Empress]

Could be referencing Iran just as well as he could be referencing Saudi Arabia or foreign islamist fighters like this guy:

John McCain mentions his Saudi buddies while fiddling this or the other "bomb bomb" tune:

[...] “I’m glad that some of the nations in the Gulf, the Saudis, are providing some weapons [to the Syrian opposition],” the former conservative presidential candidate told CNN in an interview on Sunday.

McCain was arguing that the US should help the Syrian opposition with arms regardless of concerns over the presence of extremist forces among the anti-Assad groups, and that Washington would not be able to prevent them from laying their hands on arms. [...]

btw, Bahrain had a big party in the streets when the ghoulish Saudi crown prince died a couple of days ago. He was directing the invasion of the army to crush the (genuine mass) rebellion there.

Disgusting levels of hypocrisy.

edit: will take a look CL.

 

[Toontown]

So...McCain is now implicated in the Houla massacre?

Disgusting. Will the chain of blame-shame never end? How far does it go? How high does it reach?

 

[Mycroft]

Consultant and peace activist Christoph R. Hörstel told RT that his information “is directly obtained from Syrian security personnel of various origins personally taking part in battles and other operations, and/or close relatives of such personnel – some are even well-known people".
“The information reaches me through a partner in Turkey. I counter-check all information obtained this way as best as possible under the circumstances,” Hörstel said.

This is basically an announcement of the guys biases. He's not a journalist, he's a "peace activist" who apparently believes the best way to achieve peace is to support the Assad regime.

Oh look! He even runs a pro-Sryia blog.

http://syria-help.blogspot.de/

 

[Childlike Empress]

He has a career in mainstream journalism but first of all is an Afghanistan expert going back to the 80s with more connections than a switchboard. He briefed the German troops post 9/11 about the local situation, for example. But by now he is persona non grata in the German mainstream media because he doesn't drink the war on terror kool-aid. He also spent time in Syria recently, traveled the country like a couple of other German independent journalists. Certainly not "unbiased", but professional - on his website you can see that he tries to persuade the Syrian Government to let him make their PR/Propaganda in Western media. He's outraged about their incompetence and says they can't grasp how important the "Infowar" is today. He says they are completely sure that "the truth will prevail", period. Actually quite funny and I agree that they absolutely suck at Propaganda.

 

[Virus]

He has a career in mainstream journalism but first of all is an Afghanistan expert going back to the 80s with more connections than a switchboard. He briefed the German troops post 9/11 about the local situation, for example. But by now he is persona non grata in the German mainstream media because he doesn't drink the war on terror kool-aid. He also spent time in Syria recently, traveled the country like a couple of other German independent journalists. Certainly not "unbiased", but professional - on his website you can see that he tries to persuade the Syrian Government to let him make their PR/Propaganda in Western media. He's outraged about their incompetence and says they can't grasp how important the "Infowar" is today. He says they are completely sure that "the truth will prevail", period. Actually quite funny and I agree that they absolutely suck at Propaganda.

Since he's a truther and a Lord Haw-Haw for Syrian fascist totalitarianism, I'd hope that he's a person-non-grata in the German media.

Thanks for setting the record straight though. TrustbutVerfiy was right. You aren't duped by evil. You support evil because it's evil. Looks like I owe him five bucks.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I wonder if you would be so willing to support evil if you had to live under it.

People like me and the rest of the rational bunch don't think in terms like "evil", Crusader.

 

[Virus]

A survivor of the Nazi death camps once said that a man who refuses to see evil is a man who isn't worth knowing.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Thanks for setting the record straight though. TrustbutVerfiy was right. You aren't duped by evil. You support evil because it's evil. Looks like I owe him five bucks.

Just for the record in case there is a third version following.

 

[Virus]

Didn't that guy say that Angela Merkel is guilty of treason for supporting Israel?

 

[Caustic Logic]

This is basically an announcement of the guys biases. He's not a journalist, he's a "peace activist" who apparently believes the best way to achieve peace is to support the Assad regime.

Oh look! He even runs a pro-Sryia blog.

http://syria-help.blogspot.de/

Would you distrust someone latching onto unfounded activist claims promoting war, if they also had a website dedicated to taking down "tyrants" who've been targeted by the West's foreign policy establishment? Sure you would, because that's our baseline national/Western mentality. Someone with the opposite viewpoint should be valued as a counterweight or balance, however small. Instead they're dismissed for having some "bias" and have to go to non-Western or non-mainstream news outlets to even be heard.

Shame on us for that.

I agree, he's got a bias towards peace which, in this case, favors the Syrian government as well as a (lot, unsure %) of its people. It also goes against the wishes of the false-flagging extremist child-slashers. I favor them not being put in charge of Syria, so that's my bias too. That could motivate someone to lie about contacts and info or accept lies or errors, as you suggest. It could also motivate him to seek out truth to build a solid foundation for peace.

Just because someone's bias differs from yours doesn't mean they're wicked people rotten to the core, incapable of truth and only able to build their case on a crooked pile of falsehoods. That comes a lot closer to describing the corporate-controlled mainstream news on Syria, in my opinion. But even that isn't so simple and clear, and it remains best to go case-by-case based on the information.

 

[Virus]

If you support fascist totalitarianism, then yes, you are rotten to the core.

 

[Caustic Logic]

A survivor of the Nazi death camps once said that a man who refuses to see evil is a man who isn't worth knowing.

Virus: This thread is about the evil plaguing Syria lately, that's not been examined well enough yet. It's an unsolved crime, even as the gallows are hastily built. How is it you magically know where the evil is coming from again? A whole lotta trust in warmongering corporatist propaganda that kinda looks like "the truth" now by sheer pervasiveness. No skepticism, no details, no discussion, just crusading propaganda robot action. You've been well-programmed.

This could devolve further. Can we stick to the topics at hand. You've addressed none yet aside from your reasons to ignore just about every salient alleged fact we should be considering or ruling out on their own merits. This is less than invaluable and you go on well deserved ignore. I have and need only one reason for that - you.

ETA: No ignore button? Whatever - when I ignore you, which is unless you ever say something of value, that's why.

 

[Virus]

I know that Syria is a totalitarian state sponsor of terrorism and a client of an even larger totalitarian state sponsor of terrorism. I know that both these filthy regimes have held onto power for decades by lying and killing.

That's Syria 101 for you. Do you know this or don't you?