Houla Massacre, Syria: What If?

[JihadJane]

Meet the mythical Shabiha, the Daily Fail has pictures!!!




Uhm, ok. I buy it.

It's interesting that they don't actually claim that any of their stories are true. It's all "are said" "it is claimed", "activist say" etc. and funny that, in the pictures of their muscle-bound "ghosts" in action, all their muscles have wasted away!

 

[Childlike Empress]

It's interesting that they don't actually claim that any of their stories are true. It's all "are said" "it is claimed", "activist say" etc. and funny that, in the pictures of their muscle-bound "ghosts" in action, all their muscles have wasted away!

Yeah, well, you can hardly move, let alone fight with muscles like this.

Crusader, apropos Russia: Sergei Lavrov now blogs for Huffington Post!

Long, read-worthy essay outlining Russia's foreign policy position and sticking it, although very diplomatically, to your neo-colonialist heros.

On the Right Side of History

[...] Unfortunately, the process of implementing Kofi Annan's plan in Syria is proceeding with great difficulty. The world was appalled by massacres of unarmed civilians, including the tragedy that happened in the village of Houla on May 25, 2012 and the subsequent bloody violence in the vicinity of Hama. It is necessary to clarify who is responsible for this and to punish the perpetrators. No one has the right to usurp the role of judge and to use these tragic events to achieve their own geopolitical goals. Abandoning such attempts will make it possible to stop the spiral of violence in Syria.

Those who say that Russia "is saving" Bashar al-Assad are wrong. I would like to reiterate that it is the Syrian people themselves who choose the political system and leadership of their country. We are not trying to whitewash the multiple mistakes and miscalculations made by Damascus, including the use of force against peaceful demonstrations at the beginning of the crisis. [...]

 

[Caustic Logic]

Meet the mythical Shabiha, the Daily Fail has pictures!!!


Uhm, ok. I buy it.

This is classic. "As the world dithers." Oh, the indignation. Those muscles, right there, and the world dithers. Sickening.

Again repeating the "rumors"of throat-slitting and other hallmarks of Salafist provocatuers ...

How they got the images and know what they're of:

Emergence of the death squad pictures comes after William Hague said yesterday he may have to send troops to Syria if the country spirals into a Bosnian-style civil war.

"After" but not "from," so unspecified, presumably supplied by the credible doctor who treated them for whatever, and was handed a pile of their personal photos, I guess.

It looks like pictures of a muscles and guns tough guy club with no political affiliation. Pro-Assad maybe from the rally pic. But it's not even all clearly of the same connected people. Only one is super muscle-bound, super-bearded, tattooed and dressed in black. The others are semi-buffed semi-fat guys, maybe ex-military. The one - the top photo with the Assad tattoo looks suspiciously clear compared to the blob on his right arm. But that could be nothing.

The beating scene, in broad daylight by guys who look nothing like this, not convincing. I'll have to see the video it's from someday. I bet they barely hit the people, who act extra-meek and in-need-of-assistance. They probably totally ignore the camera, and keep explaining they're Shahiba, and threatening to kill if people don't love the leader.

 

[Caustic Logic]

Obviously, the possibility of UN intervention had not yet penetrated Assad's dim consciousness when he ordered murderous attacks on what was originally peaceful protesters. That enlightenment came later. However, by then, other despicable packs of power-grubbing murderers had gotten the bright idea of dressing up like Syrian soldiers and slaughtering civilians to make it look like Assaddunnit, bringing on UN intervention.

Yeah. That's it. That's what happened. This needs to be tediously, microscopically investigated, for a long time.

Au contraire:

Whatever was the situation at first, what happened in Libya with UN mandate, coupled with the Iraq precedent of regime change war with no such mandate, Assad feared war. So he agreed to a cease-fire and peace plan, elections and rapid reforms, as if to keep things together.

But then as soon as the Libyans started arriving, having secured their homeland for the forces of chaos and revenge, he revealed his real plan. He'd launch an ethnic-cleansing campaign against the Sunni majority within their precious rebel-administered areas. Using extreme brutality, even killing the kids. He was sure to have his Shahiba do it, chanting their slogans and whatnot, in Sunni-dominated areas, making sure there were plenty other Sunni witnesses to tell the world. Knowing the brutality-loving Russians would stay on his side to prevent the mandated war, and knowing the power of his own global spin machine, he was sure he could avoid the other kind.

Yeah, that must be it. But no time to be absolutely sure, not that we aren't. But no time to investigatein depth. The witnesses are quite clear, and we have a Responsibility 2 Panic.

 

[Childlike Empress]

How they got the images and know what they're of:

"After" but not "from," so unspecified, presumably supplied by the credible doctor who treated them for whatever, and was handed a pile of their personal photos, I guess.

Yeah, that good doctor happens to be the head of one of the two "competing" Syrian Observatories for Human Rights, the top source for most of the oh-so-credible "activists" information peddled by the western media - Daily Fail even gets the organization name wrong (or maybe they settled their dispute and the good doctor changed the name of his outlet?). It's a small world.

Might be fruitful to check some Syrian body-builder sites to see if those pictures have already appeared elsewhere ... but who believes this crap anyway?

 

[JihadJane]

Toontown and Virus.

 

[Caustic Logic]

One of the Observatories is supposed to be a joke on the other, isn't it? Which one is he from? I don't have it sorted out yet.

Supporting the tough guy costume club interpretation, a comment at the Fail:

These guys, whilst no doubt thugs, are not armed with real guns, at least not in these pictures. The pistols pictured are blank-firers only, incapable of firing real ammunition without modification.
- JonMac, UK, 13/6/2012 23:19

 

[Childlike Empress]

The other SOHR guy Rami Abdulrahman seems to get quoted more often and I think has a blog on Al-Jazeera. But the doctor accuses him of having hijacked the booth.

I ran the pics through TinEye. Nothing on the super-muscle guys (but that could be because of the little inserts in the lower right corners which prevent TinEye from finding them), but I found the broad daylight beating scene titled "Battered: The Ghosts filmed beating activists", which appeared in some scandinavian papers (f.e. here and here). Can't find the accompanying articles but the expressen.se URL shows that it was uploaded March 25, 2011, at the very beginning of the crisis.

 

[Moss]

One of the Observatories is supposed to be a joke on the other, isn't it? Which one is he from? I don't have it sorted out yet.

Supporting the tough guy costume club interpretation, a comment at the Fail:

If I were you I'd like a second opinion on that by someone who knows firearms and that you trust.

 

[Childlike Empress]

The super-muscle guy with the Assad tattoo also features in recent articles on this blog, the New York Post and The Mirror. The latter includes a youtube-video which is obviously (because of the little video running in the bottom right corner) the source of the pics, which are screenshots. It contains more pics of the guy and his thuggish two or three buddies, his dog, more gun posing etc. The yt description links to a facebook profile (maybe someone can check this out, I don't do facebook).

It was uploaded 19th April 2011 and has a million and a half views. Anybody read Arabic?


So the Daily Fail claim that these pics "emerged" recently and are some kind of scoop is completely bogus. Who would have thought.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Checked the Shabiha articles on wikipedia. The oldest one is the Arabic one, from late March 2011. The English one is from August 2011, the German one from December 2011. In Farsi and Turkish people haven't heard about it until early 2012.

 

[Caustic Logic]

If I were you I'd like a second opinion on that by someone who knows firearms and that you trust.

It's not a majpr point, just something I thought worth passing on. Even if they're real guns, it proves just about nothing. We have no reason but the Fail's say-so that these tough guys have anything to with Shahiba or slaughtering families.

C.E., excellent work. This thread is becoming a valuable informational resource.

Had to dig a bit for what I heard about the SOHRs. Actually, it's still too confusing - one guy has two names, etc. Some comments here by Petri Krohn show a grip I never got. He thinks they're both fake groups run by the Syrians. I don't know. If so, for either, they should make it clearer and deliver the punchline before it's too late.

 

[Virus]

It's so funny the way the pro-fascists gather around an assortment of Assad regime mouthpieces, PressTV, Russia Today, Communist sites and truther blogs and pretend they're doing serious research into a conclusion they've already reached.

 

[Caustic Logic]

It's so funny the way the pro-fascists gather around an assortment of Assad regime mouthpieces, PressTV, Russia Today, Communist sites and truther blogs and pretend they're doing serious research into a conclusion they've already reached.

Hmmm

 

[Caustic Logic]

That is, I'm at least not "pretending" anything. Whatever else you've got wrong tangled up in there is your own problem.

We've seen Hermann's rebuttal to the critics. Now here's his new fascist-supporting fringe media admirer John Rosenthall's rebuttal.
http://pressenza.com/npermalink/syria-houla-massacre-revisited
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/302998/houla-massacre-redux-john-rosenthal#

I was aware in mentioning this that Mother Agnès-Mariam had given an interview to the website of Thierry Meyssan,
...
Perhaps Mother Agnès-Mariam ought, after all, to have refused Meyssan’s interview. But in a French media landscape as bereft of any semblance of balanced reporting on the Syria crisis as the American one, I can assure Al-Tamimi and Smyth that she will not have received many such requests.

Al-Tamimi and Smyth write that “it’s hard not to conclude that Mother Agnès-Mariam is little more than another Assad propagandist. ... the truth is that these allegations have their origins on outlandish conspiracy websites.”

What do Al-Tamimi and Smyth make of the string of suicide bombings in Damascus, in Aleppo, and elsewhere in Syria — attacks that even U.S. Director of National Intelligence James Clapper has admitted bear all the hallmarks of al-Qaeda? Perhaps Al-Tamimi and Smyth belive, in the style of Thierry Meyssan’s 9/11 theories, that these attacks were orchestrated by the regime itself. But what do they make, then, of the video evidence showing rebel brigades or supporters of the rebellion proudly posing with al-Qaeda’s notorious black flag: the very flag made famous by terror master Abu Musab al-Zarqawi while targeting American troops, local “collaborators,” and Shia in neighboring Iraq? Do they believe that these are all fakes cleverly fabricated by regime “propagandists?”

 

[Caustic Logic]

Did we know the Guardian boy Ali has a video? English subtitles. I forgot how young 11 can look. From "activists say" to "kids say the darnedest things in a war zone."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9KnjNxU8nI
11yo Ali Alsayed Houla Massacre 25/05/12 Survivor Tells his Story

Gets good at 2:07 as he shows the bullet graze on the back of his right hand. Tough kid, no tears or sign of emotion, other than eagerness to do this right. How he knew it was the gov't and not gangs:
the tank right outside their house, which was firing. And because they were Shahiba, in army fatigues and civilian clothes mixed, with big beards. No mention of the muscle man. Not that I really believe he saw anything like this. They stole 3 TVs, a computer, and a vacuum, he says.

Now, hasn't it been established his name does match with one of the families wiped out? Is it his real name, I wonder? He says his uncle was on Syrian state TV, which the kid watches, explaining Ali's other uncle(s?) and brother were killed by armed gangs. (see 2:41) I'm guessing this was a real broadcast, but here Ali exposes the hoax - he'd been arrested too, I think, clearly taken by gov't forces (no rogue Shahiba here) and made to lie on their TV channel. He probably also said they were an Alawi family and Ali might agree if pressed, but I wonder if it's true.

Most heartfelt part is at 3:09. This kid can see the big picture. Please watch, and spread the word. Syria's children need our help now.

ETA: I suppose his sister, or cousin? must be Myriam Sayed, who also survived and spoke to NPR.
http://www.npr.org/2012/06/05/154335032/sectarian-syrian-group-blamed-in-houla-massacre

MCEVERS: Why would we flee and hide with anti-government rebels, she says, if we were with the government? She describes the killers as Alawite thugs wearing all black and chanting sectarian slogans. Alawites are a minority in Syria, the same group as the ruling family.
SAYID: (Foreign language spoken)
MCEVERS: This was a sectarian killing, Maryam says. They killed us because we are Sunni.

Can I still edit? Convo with the guy posting the Ali video (in case he deletes it):
First one maybe already deleted: "How many comments you have to delete to keep the field so clean in support of this transparent, war crimes-absolving propaganda?"

I delete all comments which are Discriminant, Biased, Racist or Unnecessary in any way. I allowed commenting for a reason so that people may tell both their sides in a mature manner. Unlike your People which don't allow commenting or Comments have to be approved first! (It's Ironic how none of my comments have gotten Approved till this date.) Your comment will be deleted till you have something to say in a proper manner. Thank you.
SHABAB ALSHAM in reply to LockerbieDivide 49 minutes ago

Apologies if I was too suspicious. I saw no dissenting comments, which is us=nusual on Youtube. This kid just doesn't seem the slightest credible to me. No passion or mood talking about his family, the political spin for intervention getting so much more emotion, the stolen vacuum, firing tank, grazed hand, miracle survival (twice) the handy explanation for what his uncle(?) said on TV ...
Do you happen to know was this family Sunni, Alawi, or what?
LockerbieDivide in reply to SHABAB ALSHAM 29 minutes ago

It shouldn't matter to us if he is Sunni, Alawi, or Anything he is telling his story. In the Video he describes how the ARMY were in the TANKS and shooting at them with MACHINE GUNS. He speaks how the tank stops outside his house and soldiers come out of it and entered his house while the tank is still firing.
SHABAB ALSHAM in reply to LockerbieDivide 8 minutes ago

Personally, I agree wholeheartedly we should put the ethnic divisions and their harm to bed. This is good activist language.
Not army, Shahiba.
Is this his sister or what? Also from the alleged loyalist family?
Maryam Sayid: "She describes the killers as Alawite thugs wearing all black and chanting sectarian slogans. ... This was a sectarian killing, Maryam says. They killed us because we are Sunni."
LockerbieDivide in reply to SHABAB ALSHAM 1 second ago

 

[Caustic Logic]

And for the record, after the video poster's editing, the last two comments read so for the moment:

It shouldn't matter to us if he is Sunni, Alawi, or Anything he is telling his story. In the Video he describes how the ARMY were in the TANKS and shooting at them with MACHINE GUNS. He speaks how the tank stops outside his house and soldiers come out of it and entered his house while the tank is still firing.
SHABAB ALSHAM in reply to LockerbieDivide 58 minutes ago

I see the policy in action. Fair enough, its your channel. You don't want mention of sectarian stuff to muddle this moral issue. What happens after the outside help, well, at least you'll all finally be free to chose.
LockerbieDivide in reply to SHABAB ALSHAM 1 second ago

erp, one more, the closing now, if it stays. I expect one further rebuttal about how they're for freedom of speech, as opposed to the dictator, so of course I can speak, yadda yadda

Can you speak a little more clearer sorry i am not understanding you.
SHABAB ALSHAM in reply to LockerbieDivide 47 minutes ago

And nope, I predicted wrong. Already my response to that is gone.

Probably not. I'm happy to say I've said my piece and leave it there with that vague closing. Thanks for letting me speak and even responding. Happy Sunday.

 

[gabeygoat]

Problem is of course that none of this investigation, truthful or not, will be given any credibility by the autistic western media which have distorted the situation for so long.

Was it really necessary to use the term 'autistic' in your derogatory comment? It A.) makes no sense and B.) is an unnecessary slight to people with autism.

 

[JihadJane]

Was it really necessary to use the term 'autistic' in your derogatory comment? It A.) makes no sense and B.) is an unnecessary slight to people with autism.

I agree. Everyone should stop using people with disabilities/different abilities to insult other people but don't don't expect too much from a forum that proudly labels it's opponents "woos"!

 

[Caustic Logic]

Was it really necessary to use the term 'autistic' in your derogatory comment? It A.) makes no sense and B.) is an unnecessary slight to people with autism.

Sensitivity aside, I don't want a blind person driving the taxi I'm rising in, and I'd rather not have issues of war and peace decided by ... people with an overly inward-directed self-reinforcing trancelike closed mindedness to overwhelming new info they can'tor refuse to grasp ... or whatever exactly she was driving at with the descriptor. Find a better one, if you want to help.

I dig your point, of course. Just have a counter-one.