Homeopathetic gains PSA accreditation

[MarkCorrigan]

No when I started on my depression mess it was 1991 and I hardly knew anything about homeopathics...and went to docs to trust them to help me.

I've learned so much since then and you Mark Corrigan have no clue where I've been but I'm sharing some of what I've been thru.

You brought up depression.

You have stated outright that you had a vitamin D deficiency and when you took vitamin D your low mood went away. That's vitamin D deficiency. That is not depression.

Are you going to answer my questions or not? The constant evasion is rather telling.

Forget that it's depression, let's say that I am talking about influenza. I say that magical ear pixies cure influenza. Is it open minded to state that hey, I have been cured of flu by magical ear pixies, therefore magical ear pixies exist and can cure flu? Yes or no.

If you answered "yes" to that, are you stating that you believe it is reasonable to believe in magic ear pixies based on the say so of one person?

If you answered "no", then do you understand that your anecdotes regarding homeopathy are exactly equal, evidence wise, as my anecdote about magical ear pixies?

 

[Pixel42]

You believe what you choose to and those of us who believe in homeopathy will do the same. It's good to be skeptical but it's good to keep an open mind too.

I do not believe what I choose to, I believe what the evidence tells me is true.

There are many things I would choose to believe if that was a sensible thing to do. It would be great if homeopathy did actually work. But it simply doesn't, and there is nothing either I or you can do about that. Our belief certainly won't change it.

My mind was open enough to the possibility that homeopathy worked to actually look at the evidence for and against it. Yours is so firmly closed on the subject I'm prepared to bet you still haven't done so, despite the information you've been given on this thread. Am I wrong?

Here's the link I gave you to the report by the British Parliament again. Note that professional homeopaths testified, making the best case they could for continued NHS funding.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmsctech/45/4502.htm

If your mind was really open you would read it.

 

[steenkh]

You believe what you choose to and those of us who believe in homeopathy will do the same. It's good to be skeptical but it's good to keep an open mind too.

I can change my mind when new evidence comes up, but I have my doubts that the same is the case for you.

What would change my mind about the basis for homoeopathy would be if anybody - in particular homoeopaths - could demonstrate that they can distinguish between homoeopathic remedies and the corresponding blanks. This challenge has been open for decades, but nobody has been risen to it. It should be quite simple: treat a sufficiently large number of patients with the remedy, and a similar number with the blanks. The protocol must of course be adequately blinded.

This simple test has been rejected by homoeopaths over and over, presumably because they know it will fail. It has been conducted by non-homoeopaths, and has of course failed.

The homoeopaths claim that they reject the test because homoeopathic remedies need to be tailored individually. This is contrary to the practice of selling remedies over the counter, but never mind. Protocols have been developed that allow for tailoring, and are still double blinded (our forum’s own Rolfe suggested one such protocol, AFAIR). Still, homoeopaths would not bite.

This reluctance to test their own theories strongly indicates that homoeopaths are more interested in keeping up their image and income than knowing the truth about homoeopathy.

It also tells us that homoeopaths and their followers do not have an open mind.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Just thinking too, the Royals have used homeopathy since the beginning of it's inception, true? They most likely used more than one type medicine.

If you mean our Royal family, then I wouldn't take them as a guide to anything resembling science: they are not exactly over-burdened with brain cells and Chucky is a grade A eejit.

Also, as hereditary robber baron billionaire aristocrats they are the most privileged of the privileged in this country and have speedy access to the best of conventional medical treatment (longevity and good health outcomes, as the likes of Peter Townshend and the Black report showed long ago, are inextricably linked to wealth and privilege - it would be more of a surprise if that bunch were NOT so long lived as they are, now that all the haemophiliac ones have died out).

 

[Carrot Flower King]

There are homeopathic for depression.

I struggled for 10 yrs with clinical depression and it was a sluggish thyroid that went undetected by a bunch of STUPID doctors and all they kept doing was slapping me with A/D drugs..this went on for 10 ugly years. Talk about being drugged for 10 yrs with A/D's that did NOTHING. Only made pharma fatter $$$. A dsyfunctional thyroid is a major one with depression and a very inexpensive drug vs A/D's that the docs give out like candy.

Once my good ole D.O. took charge he put me on Armour thyroid, no labs nadda, and the 10 yrs of depression lifted, gone.

Then a few yrs later some lowness hit me and I found how deficient I was in Vit D and got that fixed and no depression for over 15 yrs or so.

I have found in my long life, a LOT of worthless MD's..deep pockets for sure.

And so many go without optimal thyroid support from dumb doctors who believe we are numbers and not symptoms. Don't give thyroid support, give the wrong one, or don't give the right strength and dose.

So you had a mis-diagnosed under-active thyroid, which is NOT depression but displays some similar symptoms. You are right to say that the medics should have checked for this (back when I last worked in adult MH this was SOP here) and found out what was going on.

However, it does not look like you were ever depressed, so any claims that whatever treated your depression look questionable.

Paroxetine has worked perfectly well for me off and on over the years when I've needed it, if we want to trade anecdotes again and my thyroid is perfectly fine...

 

[GodMark2]

I can change my mind when new evidence comes up, but I have my doubts that the same is the case for you.

What would change my mind about the basis for homoeopathy would be if anybody - in particular homoeopaths - could demonstrate that they can distinguish between homoeopathic remedies and the corresponding blanks. This challenge has been open for decades, but nobody has been risen to it. It should be quite simple: treat a sufficiently large number of patients with the remedy, and a similar number with the blanks. The protocol must of course be adequately blinded.

This simple test has been rejected by homoeopaths over and over, presumably because they know it will fail. It has been conducted by non-homoeopaths, and has of course failed.

The homoeopaths claim that they reject the test because homoeopathic remedies need to be tailored individually. This is contrary to the practice of selling remedies over the counter, but never mind. Protocols have been developed that allow for tailoring, and are still double blinded (our forum’s own Rolfe suggested one such protocol, AFAIR). Still, homoeopaths would not bite.

This reluctance to test their own theories strongly indicates that homoeopaths are more interested in keeping up their image and income than knowing the truth about homoeopathy.

It also tells us that homoeopaths and their followers do not have an open mind.

Point of contention: several homeopaths have tested their remedies in a proper fashion. All the tests failed at a rate exactly consistent with placebo. This is likely what gave rise to the concept of 'grafting': It was offered as an explanation as to why the pure water was indistinguishable from their special water. See, just being close to their special water made the 'neutral' water special, too, which means it wasn't a fair test!

Of course, the fact that both the special and neutral waters also failed at a rate indistinguishable from random chance was completely ignored by practitioners.

 

[Norman Alexander]

There are homeopathic for depression.

I struggled for 10 yrs with clinical depression and it was a sluggish thyroid that went undetected by a bunch of STUPID doctors and all they kept doing was slapping me with A/D drugs..this went on for 10 ugly years. Talk about being drugged for 10 yrs with A/D's that did NOTHING. Only made pharma fatter $$$. A dsyfunctional thyroid is a major one with depression and a very inexpensive drug vs A/D's that the docs give out like candy.

Once my good ole D.O. took charge he put me on Armour thyroid, no labs nadda, and the 10 yrs of depression lifted, gone.

Then a few yrs later some lowness hit me and I found how deficient I was in Vit D and got that fixed and no depression for over 15 yrs or so.

I have found in my long life, a LOT of worthless MD's..deep pockets for sure.

And so many go without optimal thyroid support from dumb doctors who believe we are numbers and not symptoms. Don't give thyroid support, give the wrong one, or don't give the right strength and dose.

Which of those medications is homeopathic?

 

[Caroline13]

I can change my mind when new evidence comes up, but I have my doubts that the same is the case for you.

What would change my mind about the basis for homoeopathy would be if anybody - in particular homoeopaths - could demonstrate that they can distinguish between homoeopathic remedies and the corresponding blanks. This challenge has been open for decades, but nobody has been risen to it. It should be quite simple: treat a sufficiently large number of patients with the remedy, and a similar number with the blanks. The protocol must of course be adequately blinded.

This simple test has been rejected by homoeopaths over and over, presumably because they know it will fail. It has been conducted by non-homoeopaths, and has of course failed.

The homoeopaths claim that they reject the test because homoeopathic remedies need to be tailored individually. This is contrary to the practice of selling remedies over the counter, but never mind. Protocols have been developed that allow for tailoring, and are still double blinded (our forum’s own Rolfe suggested one such protocol, AFAIR). Still, homoeopaths would not bite.

This reluctance to test their own theories strongly indicates that homoeopaths are more interested in keeping up their image and income than knowing the truth about homoeopathy.

It also tells us that homoeopaths and their followers do not have an open mind.

Believe me I have a very open mind and ended up in the ER from a pharma drug and live with a mess from a major surgery that I believe was botched...

Read about all the deaths from drug interactions and failed surgeries, they are out there to find for a lot of reading by those who care to educate themselves on the dangers of western medicine and surgeries.

 

[Caroline13]

Which of those medications is homeopathic?

Vit D is actually a hormone, get is naturally from good SUN, Amour is a pharma drug. Not sure what you are talking about "which is homeopathic". Little sun leads to major Vit D deficiency. So thank goodness for the companies who let us buy it otc to get our levels in a good place..

And too much sun can be damaging too, so again thanks for the supplements of D3.

Get your levels tested if none of you have NOT. Or as I've said if you live in
the tropics you are probably good on the D.

 

[Caroline13]

So you had a mis-diagnosed under-active thyroid, which is NOT depression but displays some similar symptoms. You are right to say that the medics should have checked for this (back when I last worked in adult MH this was SOP here) and found out what was going on.

However, it does not look like you were ever depressed, so any claims that whatever treated your depression look questionable.

Paroxetine has worked perfectly well for me off and on over the years when I've needed it, if we want to trade anecdotes again and my thyroid is perfectly fine...

There are some 60+ symptoms of low thyroid (HypoT) and depression is right up on top of the list, panic and anxiety, hair loss, cold hands/feet, sleeplessness, weight gain/loss, and so so many more.

I could write my own book on HypoT as I've learned so much since my early issues started in 1991, and that was about after menopause time...

If you have not been thru menopause, the body does do a lot of changing...

 

[The Greater Fool]

Vit D is actually a hormone, get is naturally from good SUN, Amour is a pharma drug. Not sure what you are talking about "which is homeopathic". Little sun leads to major Vit D deficiency. So thank goodness for the companies who let us buy it otc to get our levels in a good place..

And too much sun can be damaging too, so again thanks for the supplements of D3.

Get your levels tested if none of you have NOT. Or as I've said if you live in
the tropics you are probably good on the D.

The point is you are here hyping Homeopathic but the stuff you implied was homeopathic is not.

So what homeopathic compounds have you used for what with what evidence of efficacy?

 

[ponderingturtle]

It's not plain water, it's just scientifically indistinguishable from plain water. There's a subtle difference.

And if you are very very lucky you might have a single molecule of active ingredient.

 

[ponderingturtle]

No it's not plain water, there is a science behind it and "like cures", and plain water to sleep, I'd be up all night. After menopause FOR ME and more chronic pain from OA and damaged surgery, my sleep went downhill, now at 82 I sleep 8-10 good deep hrs...and also in the whole mix is a HGH homeopathic gel I've been using for 2 yrs, my daughter and I, she 2.5 yrs, me 2 yrs.

Sleep issues are major in our population and it's sad and very pathetic as it's so needed for healing. And to increase HGH as we age.

But the whole point of homeopathy is to use something that causes the problem and dilute it. So if the problem is low human growth hormone you would want to start not with human growth hormone but with something that suppresses it and then dilute it until there is no longer any molecules of that left.

It sounds more like a hormone supplement which as it has an active ingredient in measurable levels not homeopathy. Though often homeopathic preparations have ingredients in non homeopathic concentrations and are not real homeopathy.

 

[steenkh]

Believe me I have a very open mind and ended up in the ER from a pharma drug and live with a mess from a major surgery that I believe was botched...

Read about all the deaths from drug interactions and failed surgeries, they are out there to find for a lot of reading by those who care to educate themselves on the dangers of western medicine and surgeries.

Even if that happens to be true, homoeopathy does not become valid by default. It is still only based on the placebo effect.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Vit D is actually a hormone, get is naturally from good SUN, Amour is a pharma drug. Not sure what you are talking about "which is homeopathic". Little sun leads to major Vit D deficiency. So thank goodness for the companies who let us buy it otc to get our levels in a good place..

And too much sun can be damaging too, so again thanks for the supplements of D3.

Get your levels tested if none of you have NOT. Or as I've said if you live in
the tropics you are probably good on the D.

So none of the medications you are bigging up are actually homeopathic? Is that what you are confirming?

And I'm well aware of how vitamin D works, thanks. Learned that in high school biology.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Believe me I have a very open mind and ended up in the ER from a pharma drug and live with a mess from a major surgery that I believe was botched...

Read about all the deaths from drug interactions and failed surgeries, they are out there to find for a lot of reading by those who care to educate themselves on the dangers of western medicine and surgeries.

Which drug? What were the circumstances?

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Again Caroline, I can't help but notice that you're ignoring my questions. Please answer them. Wouldn't want people to think you're being intellectually dishonest.

 

[Pixel42]

Read about all the deaths from drug interactions and failed surgeries, they are out there to find for a lot of reading by those who care to educate themselves on the dangers of western medicine and surgeries.

Read about all the deaths that have been prevented by modern drugs, they are out there too and there are many many times more of them than there are the stories you are talking about. Educate yourself on the benefits of western medicine and surgeries.

Nothing is perfect and everyone makes mistakes, but the fact that average life expectancy has more than doubled in the last couple of centuries is not down to homeopathy and other so called 'alternative' medicines. It wasn't very long ago that even the wealthiest and most privileged of families expected to lose at least one child in infancy, now it's a rare exception.

Open your mind and look at all the facts, not just the ones that support what you want to believe.

 

[Mojo]

There are homeopathic for depression.

Not according to homeopaths. They say that their remedies must be individualised to the particular patient, not specific to a condition.

 

[Mojo]

There are homeopathic for depression.

I struggled for 10 yrs with clinical depression and it was a sluggish thyroid that went undetected by a bunch of STUPID doctors and all they kept doing was slapping me with A/D drugs..this went on for 10 ugly years. Talk about being drugged for 10 yrs with A/D's that did NOTHING. Only made pharma fatter $$$. A dsyfunctional thyroid is a major one with depression and a very inexpensive drug vs A/D's that the docs give out like candy.

Once my good ole D.O. took charge he put me on Armour thyroid, no labs nadda, and the 10 yrs of depression lifted, gone. Then a few yrs later some lowness hit me and I found how deficient I was in Vit D and got that fixed and no depression for over 15 yrs or so.

What does this have to do with homeopathy?