Hilarious Steven Jones article

[~enigma~]

welcome to real life, its done every day.........

Ah...another insight into the mind if a truther. The consfearacy is made in their minds to cover for their own inadequacies. Now it all makes sense...

 

[Dave Rogers]

So to get back on track, i just pulled a random segment from the paper of Steven E. Jones, and i would like to know what is wrong with the analysis.

"The observer notes that the observed surface of this metal is still reddish-orange some six weeks after 9-11. This implies a large quantity of a metal with fairly low heat conductivity and a relatively large heat capacity (e.g., iron is more likely than aluminum) even in an underground location. Like magma in a volcanic cone, such metal might remain hot and molten for a long time -- once the metal is sufficiently hot to melt in large quantities and then kept in a fairly-well insulated underground location. Moreover, as hypothesized below, thermite reactions may well have resulted in substantial quantities (observed in pools) of molten iron at very high temperatures – initially above 2,000 °C (3,632 °F)."

Apart from the absence of any significant degree of analysis, the following is wrong with it:

Jones is making an assumption that the metal in question was initially heated to a very high temperature, then cooled slowly over six weeks to reddish-orange heat. There is, however, overwhelming evidence cited elsewhere, including in Jones's own publications, that there were fires burning in the rubble pile for at least six weeks that were capable of sustaining metal at reddish-orange heat. Therefore, the reddish-orange heat of the metal is expected from the presence of the known fires. Any conclusions that Jones attempts to draw from the heat of the rubble that ignore the presence of these fires are necessarily invalid. As usual, Jones is cherry-picking his own evidence, and deliberately ignoring evidence he is well aware of and has presented as evidence for his hypothesis elsewhere, because in this instance it doesn't support his hypothesis. This is intellectual dishonesty, plain and simple.

Dave

 

[DC]

Really? People cover up mass murder for a paycheck?

You didn't answer the question though, would YOU cover up mass murder for further work?

i personaly not, but thousands of humans do it day in day out.
ijust cause i would not do it, does not mean others would not do it also.

 

[~enigma~]

i personaly not, but thousands of humans do it day in day out.

Really...so with the population of the world at 6 billion and thousands covering up for mass murder daily, how long till the earth is a rock as barren as your psyche?

 

[papasmurf]

i thought the subject was Jones hilarious article and not any mythical molten steel. You didn't lie about the subject did you?

I also said i don't want people who didn't read the article to open their big mouths


Molten steel is a huge portion of the article in question.

 

[~enigma~]

I also said i don't want people who didn't read the article to open their big mouths


Molten steel is a huge portion of the article in question.

Ok Mr. Big Mouth...was the molten steel identified first hand by a metallurgist and how was it tested or is Steven "jeebus in America" Jones pulling it out of his hieney again?

 

[WildCat]

papasmurf is still ignoring the video I posted 3 pages ago.

 

[papasmurf]

Stop ignoring the video I posted 3 times in this thread showing cleanup workers cutting the columns you claim was done by thermite.

You said you'd change your mind if shown this evidence, it appears you were lying again.

Why should anyone here bother with you if you ignore facts inconvenient to your fantasy and lie when it suits you?

I did watch it. I don't deny that collumns were cut in the clean up. I just am not sure that the ones in the picture were cut during cleanup. It seems like there is a lot less debris around in the video you gave and that they cleared more of the material around the collumns before making the cuts.


People, let me say this. It is not my belief that thermite was used that drives me and most people in the truth movement. It is the questions, unexplained phenomena, and holes in the official story that have not been answered yet in any reasonable way that drives us.

I want to know what that molten metal came from first of all. You have failed to provide anything other than "no thermite" was used.

WEAK

 

[WildCat]

You don't find those clean cuts on the collumns, with the thermite-like substance dripping down the sides odd at all?

That is a very interesting photo and one that needs investigated. If someone can prove that those photos were taken during cleanup and somehow were cut like that by the clean up crew, then that might discredit something.

I tried but was unable to find anything that showed those were photos taken during the clean up when they were cutting some of the steel. In fact, the firemen were mostly cleared out by the time they were doing most of that stuff anyway i believe, and they probably would not have cut that beam so high up, as there is no space around the beam for them to have performed a cut like that during clean up.

The above statement by papasmurf is a lie. He will never admit that the columns were cut by cleanup workers no matter how much evidence is shown to him.

Lying for the truth, eh papasmurf?

 

[~enigma~]

I want to know what that molten metal came from first of all.

Didn't you insist that it was steel just a few short posts above? Can you make up your mind and stop making fluctuations?

 

[WildCat]

I want to know what that molten metal came from first of all. You have failed to provide anything other than "no thermite" was used.

You have failed to admit that there is no known way for thermite to make those cuts.

You have failed to admit that thermite cannot burn for weeks or months.

You have failed to admit that ordinary office and house fires commonly reach temps high enough to melt aluminum and make steel glow red.

In other words, you are as dishonest as everyone else in the trruth movement, which is ironically based on lies.

WEAK

 

[papasmurf]

Ok Mr. Big Mouth...was the molten steel identified first hand by a metallurgist and how was it tested or is Steven "jeebus in America" Jones pulling it out of his hieney again?

You see Enigma. That is the problem indeed. There is a plethora of evidence showing that molten iron/steel was present. Video and photographic evidence. Satellite evidence. Previously molten iron that is collected. Some of it is even on display at memorial sites.

Now why hasn't this been thoroughly studied and explained?

Can you say "cover up" ?

I can. It's hard for most people with wool over their eyes to comprehend what we are dealing with here (everyone here).

 

[WildCat]

There is a plethora of evidence showing that molten iron/steel was present.

This is a lie.

Video and photographic evidence.

This is a lie.

Satellite evidence.

This is a lie.

Previously molten iron that is collected.

This is a lie.

Some of it is even on display at memorial sites.

This is a lie.

Now why hasn't this been thoroughly studied and explained?

Because 99% of people already know the "truth" movement is made up of liars, hacks, frauds, and snake oil salesmen. You've just provided more evidence of this.

I can. It's hard for most people with wool over their eyes to comprehend what we are dealing with here (everyone here).

I know exactly what I'm dealing with here - a liar who hasn't been correct about anything in his entire posting history here.

 

[papasmurf]

You have failed to admit that there is no known way for thermite to make those cuts.

You have failed to admit that thermite cannot burn for weeks or months.

You have failed to admit that ordinary office and house fires commonly reach temps high enough to melt aluminum and make steel glow red.

In other words, you are as dishonest as everyone else in the trruth movement, which is ironically based on lies.

"You have failed to admit that thermite cannot burn for weeks or months."

Lying just for the hell of it?

WEAK.


Please spare me your incredibly weak scientific understanding of anything. What you have just said PROVES the complete ineptness, lies, and ignorance of basic scientific principles of the debunking movement.

I have clearly said that "Everyone knows that thermite only burns for minutes". NO ONE CLAIMS that what we are witnessing is a burning thermite reaction. That is idiotic. I have already said that it is molten steel/iron resulting from a thermite reaction. As for enigma not understanding how it can be both, i will explain why they are not mutally exclusive. The product from the thermite reaction is iron. However the heat from this reaction is hot enough to melt steel. Hence why you could have significant quantities of both molten iron and steel. Simple as that.

But you insist i "have not admitted thermite cannot burn for weeks or months".

You sir, are a fraud. Please read the Jones article before trying to dismiss it as crap.

Jones has read the NIST report and debunked many of its claims. Yet you will not even do the courtesy of reading Jones's article.

 

[~enigma~]

You see Enigma. That is the problem indeed. There is a plethora of evidence showing that molten iron/steel was present. Video and photographic evidence. Satellite evidence. Previously molten iron that is collected. Some of it is even on display at memorial sites.

Now why hasn't this been thoroughly studied and explained?

Can you say "cover up" ?

I can. It's hard for most people with wool over their eyes to comprehend what we are dealing with here (everyone here).

No problem except one of your own making. Molten metal is more than understandable at ground zero and it is not surprising in the least. Molten steel has not been proven at all least of all not by Steven "Jeebus in America" Jones. Tell me, what metallurgist identified the molten steel and what tests did he do or is the molten steel being pulled out of Steven Jones Heiney?

 

[papasmurf]

No problem except one of your own making. Molten metal is more than understandable at ground zero and it is not surprising in the least. Molten steel has not been proven at all least of all not by Steven "Jeebus in America" Jones. Tell me, what metallurgist identified the molten steel and what tests did he do or is the molten steel being pulled out of Steven Jones Heiney?

Molten metal is the observation. Molten iron/steel is the conclusion based on the observations and analysis. Please spare me your complete ignorance of the matter at hand.

Read the article that this whole thread is about if you want more information on how it was identified.

I find it very strange that only one person here actually claimed to have read the article, while the rest of you just go on assertions of other people to dismiss the article. That just shows that you are not confident in your own thinking skills and are afraid of getting pulled over to the "dark side".


Reading is good for you!

READ IT.

 

[WildCat]

"You have failed to admit that thermite cannot burn for weeks or months."

Lying just for the hell of it?

WEAK.

You know of thermite burning for weeks and months? It's a main part of Jones' claim... maybe you could provide examples?

Or just admit you werew wrong. This is the last chance before you become a liar, again.

Please spare me your incredibly weak scientific understanding of anything. What you have just said PROVES the complete ineptness, lies, and ignorance of basic scientific principles of the debunking movement.

This from the guy who proposes tens of thousands of pounds of explosives in the middle of every floor of the WTC brought up by maintenance workers in carts? Who has failed to provide a single calculation despiote claiming to be an engineering student? Who has been caught lying multiple times?

I have clearly said that "Everyone knows that thermite only burns for minutes". NO ONE CLAIMS that what we are witnessing is a burning thermite reaction.

Steven Jones does in his new article.

That is idiotic.

So you admit that Steven Jones is an idiot, and you won't be relying on his nonsense any more?

I have already said that it is molten steel/iron resulting from a thermite reaction.

What molten steel? What molten iron?

As for enigma not understanding how it can be both, i will explain why they are not mutally exclusive. The product from the thermite reaction is iron. However the heat from this reaction is hot enough to melt steel. Hence why you could have significant quantities of both molten iron and steel. Simple as that.

And it doesn't cool down for weeks Mr. Engineering Student?

But you insist i "have not admitted thermite cannot burn for weeks or months".

You sir, are a fraud. Please read the Jones article before trying to dismiss it as crap.

Steven Jones claims that it was indeed thermite burning for weeks and months in the pile:

6 Conclusion​

The presence of energetic materials, specifically energetic
nanocomposites, at GZ, has the potential to explain much
of the unusual environmental data seen at the WTC.
Thermite, discussed briefly above, is such a pyrotechnic
mixture that cannot be easily extinguished and is a common
component of energetic nanocomposites. Unusually
high detections of sulfur, silicon, aluminum, copper, nickel,
iron, barium, and vanadium might all be explained by
physical release of materials from such energetic nanocomposites.
Additionally, the detection of 1,3-DPP at the
WTC supports this hypothesis. Finally, the spikes in VOCs,
detected by EPA on specific dates, are more readily
explained as a result of short-lived, violent fires caused by
energetic materials.​

Do you admit Steven Jones is an idiot?​

​

​

Jones has read the NIST report and debunked many of its claims.

This is a lie.

Yet you will not even do the courtesy of reading Jones's article.

Why should I read an article by a man who claims thermite was burning for weeks after the collapses?

 

[Dave Rogers]

Molten metal is the observation. Molten iron/steel is the conclusion based on the observations and analysis.

However, the conclusion does not follow from the observations and analysis, and Jones's article contains sufficient information to refute its own stated conclusion. Molten material coming from the towers pre-collapse was not hot enough to be molten iron or steel, and Jones's own data demonstrate this. Material claimed by Jones to be previously molten steel has been repeatedly identified by others to be compressed concrete which contains identifiable steel rebar, which has therefore not been melted. Satellite images indicate temperatures insufficiently high to melt structural steel. The photograph of a dripping steel element being pulled out of the rubble pile is nowhere near detailed enough to draw any useful conclusions.

In case you're not counting me as someone who's actually read Jones's article, please go to http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/commentsonstevenjones'hypothesesbydavero
for some more detailed comments on this particular piece of intentional disinformation.

Dave

 

[papasmurf]

However, the conclusion does not follow from the observations and analysis, and Jones's article contains sufficient information to refute its own stated conclusion. Molten material coming from the towers pre-collapse was not hot enough to be molten iron or steel, and Jones's own data demonstrate this. Material claimed by Jones to be previously molten steel has been repeatedly identified by others to be compressed concrete which contains identifiable steel rebar, which has therefore not been melted. Satellite images indicate temperatures insufficiently high to melt structural steel. The photograph of a dripping steel element being pulled out of the rubble pile is nowhere near detailed enough to draw any useful conclusions.

In case you're not counting me as someone who's actually read Jones's article, please go to http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/commentsonstevenjones'hypothesesbydavero
for some more detailed comments on this particular piece of intentional disinformation.

Dave

Wrong Dave, you obviously did not read to carefully. Jones clearly shows how a eutectic composition of iron and sulfur can significantly lower the melting point, even to 1000C if there is enough sulfur, which there was.

Wildcat, you are really reaching for straws. It is people like you and your unbacked statements that keep the truth movement growing everyday.

Please show me where Jones says the molten iron/steel is an ongoing thermite reaction. Please show me.

If you are just going to deny that there was molten iron at the site, i will ignore you.

 

[WildCat]

Wildcat, you are really reaching for straws. It is people like you and your unbacked statements that keep the truth movement growing everyday.

What unbacked statements? Your claims, prove them. Of course, you can't because everything I said was a lie by you is actually a lie.

Please show me where Jones says the molten iron/steel is an ongoing thermite reaction. Please show me.

Read his latest paper: http://www.springerlink.com/content/f67q6272583h86n4/fulltext.pdf
He absolutely claims that.

You admitted it was an idiotic claim, yet still you follow him as if he was the messiah.

If you are just going to deny that there was molten iron at the site, i will ignore you.

Of course you will, your MO is to run off when someone calls you out on your misinformation, lies, and ridiculous theories just like when you ran away from your horizontal ejections thread. Remember that thread? The one where you claimed NWO men disquised as maintenance workers carted tens of thousands of pounds of bombs to all 110 floors of the WTC and nobody noticed the bomb the size of a tractor trailer in the middle of every floor? And you also needed thermite and squibs to complete the demolition! Oh, here it is in case you forgot: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119792

Maybe it's time you made a dramatic exit again in order to avoid the tough questions?