Hilarious Steven Jones article

[AZCat]

Italicized boldings by me -

It's weird that people who have actual knowledge of these things tend to use the same definitions -

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=3846827#post3846827

Whereas conspiracy theorist definitions seem to vary greatly from post to post, or depending on what point they are trying to make.

Yes, very weird. Clearly this must be evidence of the NWO thought manipulation program at work. After all, those building design professionals who don't agree with the "truth movement" are shills anyway.

 

[Minadin]

Poltical attacks and criticisms are not what i am after. I'm not going to dig through all those loser posts to find the scientific information that i am after. I want to see what is wrong with what he wrote. I don't want to discuss kevin ryan, i want to discuss the paper he wrote. Thanks anyway.

So, in the face of a giant, murderous conspiracy, you're only willing to do that which is easy. Gotcha. To each his own.

 

[papasmurf]

So, in the face of a giant, murderous conspiracy, you're only willing to do that which is easy. Gotcha. To each his own.

Has nothing to do with being easy. This is the most difficult thing in the world to cope with. I just don't want to waste my time digging through hundreds of idiotic posts by people like pomeroo to find a sentence or two that actually talks about what is being said in these papers.

So to get back on track, i just pulled a random segment from the paper of Steven E. Jones, and i would like to know what is wrong with the analysis.

"The observer notes that the observed surface of this metal is still reddish-orange some six weeks after 9-11. This implies a large quantity of a metal with fairly low heat conductivity and a relatively large heat capacity (e.g., iron is more likely than aluminum) even in an underground location. Like magma in a volcanic cone, such metal might remain hot and molten for a long time -- once the metal is sufficiently hot to melt in large quantities and then kept in a fairly-well insulated underground location. Moreover, as hypothesized below, thermite reactions may well have resulted in substantial quantities (observed in pools) of molten iron at very high
temperatures – initially above 2,000 °C (3,632 °F)."

 

[beachnut]

Has nothing to do with being easy. This is the most difficult thing in the world to cope with. I just don't want to waste my time digging through hundreds of idiotic posts by people like pomeroo to find a sentence or two that actually talks about what is being said in these papers.

So to get back on track, i just pulled a random segment from the paper of Steven E. Jones, and i would like to know what is wrong with the analysis.

"The observer notes that the observed surface of this metal is still reddish-orange some six weeks after 9-11. This implies a large quantity of a metal with fairly low heat conductivity and a relatively large heat capacity (e.g., iron is more likely than aluminum) even in an underground location. Like magma in a volcanic cone, such metal might remain hot and molten for a long time -- once the metal is sufficiently hot to melt in large quantities and then kept in a fairly-well insulated underground location. Moreover, as hypothesized below, thermite reactions may well have resulted in substantial quantities (observed in pools) of molten iron at very high
temperatures – initially above 2,000 °C (3,632 °F)."

Jones article is all junk. His thermite is a fantasy he made up. You can't produce one thing to support his paper. You have failed to provide evidence to support your hero, who made up thermite just for gullible people like you.

That is the truth about Jones and if you ever digest what you have learned in college and gain the ability to apply it in an unbiased manner, you too will see Jones as a fraud on 9/11! You will be upset you acted like a person who believes lies and false information.

So far you have been shown how Jones has lied but you ignored it all. Why? Because you are unable to read, or don't read because you don't like the fact you believe lies?

Please acknowledge the false information all ready proven to you!

The cuts on the steel columns, a Jones lie.
The floors smashed together, a Jones lie.
Thermite, a Jones lie.

"The observer notes that the observed surface of this metal is still reddish-orange some six weeks after 9-11. This implies a large quantity of a metal with fairly low heat conductivity and a relatively large heat capacity (e.g., iron is more likely than aluminum) even in an underground location. Like magma in a volcanic cone, such metal might remain hot and molten for a long time -- once the metal is sufficiently hot to melt in large quantities and then kept in a fairly-well insulated underground location. Moreover, as hypothesized below, thermite reactions may well have resulted in substantial quantities (observed in pools) of molten iron at very high temperatures – initially above 2,000 °C (3,632 °F)."

Darn, thermite is done in minutes, seconds not days and weeks. DEBUNKED Anytime Jones says thermite it is a lie. Try to get this one right next time.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Has nothing to do with being easy. This is the most difficult thing in the world to cope with. I just don't want to waste my time digging through hundreds of idiotic posts by people like pomeroo to find a sentence or two that actually talks about what is being said in these papers.

Yet your 9/11 conspiracy cults have no problem going to such trouble just to quote mine and take things out o context...

 

[papasmurf]

Jones article is all junk. His thermite is a fantasy he made up. You can't produce one thing to support his paper. You have failed to provide evidence to support your hero, who made up thermite just for gullible people like you.

That is the truth about Jones and if you ever digest what you have learned in college and gain the ability to apply it in an unbiased manner, you too will see Jones as a fraud on 9/11! You will be upset you acted like a person who believes lies and false information.

So far you have been shown how Jones has lied but you ignored it all. Why? Because you are unable to read, or don't read because you don't like the fact you believe lies?

Please acknowledge the false information all ready proven to you!

The cuts on the steel columns, a Jones lie.
The floors smashed together, a Jones lie.
Thermite, a Jones lie.

Darn, thermite is done in minutes, seconds not days and weeks. DEBUNKED Anytime Jones says thermite it is a lie. Try to get this one right next time.

Beachnut, are you being serious?

Jones clearly says the basements act like insulating ovens that contain the massive amounts of heat released by the thermite. This is an enormous amount of energy that can be contained for weeks due to the massive amounts of molten metal and the huge heat capacity and the fact that is underground. Everyone knows that the thermite reaction only lasts minutes.

Why do you do this? Please explain to me why anyone should take your word for it when you make insanely idiotic claims like these. These ideas are on par with how a 7th grader would think about the situation.

 

[papasmurf]

You haven't showed me he lied in the least bit. This is a mere assertion and is not proven.

He claims the office fires did not reach 1000C, as does NIST. You say they were just because one test with massive amounts of wood was able to show that is possible for an office fire to get to 1000C. This is not proof of any lies.

The real issue here is that steel was melted. Everyone can agree that the fire did not reach temperatures to melt steel, even if we did believe you that the fires reached 1000C.

 

[beachnut]

Beachnut, are you being serious?

Jones clearly says the basements act like insulating ovens that contain the massive amounts of heat released by the thermite. This is an enormous amount of energy that can be contained for weeks due to the massive amounts of molten metal and the huge heat capacity and the fact that is underground. Everyone knows that the thermite reaction only lasts minutes.

Why do you do this? Please explain to me why anyone should take your word for it when you make insanely idiotic claims like these. These ideas are on par with how a 7th grader would think about the situation.

So please tell me the quantity of thermite to do this?

BTW, ignore the 315 TONS of TNT heat energy injected into each tower in the form of jet fuel. Jones does, so can you.

BTW, what is the equal heat energy of the entire contents of WTC burning in pounds or TONS of TNT. do you have a clue?

Go right ahead and take the thermite lie, the fantasy of Jones and quantify the amounts! Try, take an engineering try!

So far Jones lies have been proven, you have ignored it. Why? Do you lack the ability to read and comprehend? You got zero evidence, just like Jones.

You haven't showed me he lied in the least bit. This is a mere assertion and is not proven.

The column cut was done after 9/11. So the thermite implication is a lie, or what do you call it? Proven wrong before you even decided to join and spew the lies yourself.

You haven't showed me he lied in the least bit. This is a mere assertion and is not proven.

The photo he says is melted WTC thermite junk, is floors smashed together due to the gravity collapse. Do you think a gravity collapse exceeding 100 TONS of TNT energy can do that? Go ahead and prove it wrong.

 

[Dave_46]

You haven't showed me he lied in the least bit. This is a mere assertion and is not proven.

He claims the office fires did not reach 1000C, as does NIST. You say they were just because one test with massive amounts of wood was able to show that is possible for an office fire to get to 1000C. This is not proof of any lies.

The real issue here is that steel was melted. Everyone can agree that the fire did not reach temperatures to melt steel, even if we did believe you that the fires reached 1000C.

My bolding.

More than one test was performed as part of the programme.

"Massive amounts of wood"? There was a lot less fuel in even the biggest of the Cardington fires than in the WTC.

 

[kimota]

Since I am an infrequent visitor to this board, please forgive me if the following has already been addressed.

I have a couple of questions about these pictures and since they are used in Jones' report, it's relevant to the OP.

For the moment, I'm going to assume that Jones' scenario is correct and from that, I will make the following assumptions:
1) These are load bearing columns, since they were targeted for cutting during the building's collapse. And as load bearing columns go, they would experience great amounts of compressive force.
2) A "thermite cutter charge" gets hot enough to liquefy the steel along the lines of where the cutter charge is placed, over 2500° C.
3) The steel surrounding the cutter charge contact area would also be heated, but to a decreasing degree the further away it is from the cutter charge. Significantly heated, but not to the melting point.

My questions are: would the support columns, experiencing large compressive force during the melt-through, look so relatively intact? Wouldn't they distort before failure? If the cutter charge managed sever it without distorting, wouldn't the remaining section of the column likely experience impacts from the debris falling among it and in its heated, softened state, show evidence of those impacts?

Maybe if Dr. Jones had recreated the effects of thermite on a large steel column with a compressive force comparable to supporting a skyscraper, rather than melting a steel coffee cup, we might have a better idea if that picture is an accurate evidence of what he proposes.

 

[pomeroo]

Has nothing to do with being easy. This is the most difficult thing in the world to cope with. I just don't want to waste my time digging through hundreds of idiotic posts by people like pomeroo to find a sentence or two that actually talks about what is being said in these papers.

So to get back on track, i just pulled a random segment from the paper of Steven E. Jones, and i would like to know what is wrong with the analysis.

"The observer notes that the observed surface of this metal is still reddish-orange some six weeks after 9-11. This implies a large quantity of a metal with fairly low heat conductivity and a relatively large heat capacity (e.g., iron is more likely than aluminum) even in an underground location. Like magma in a volcanic cone, such metal might remain hot and molten for a long time -- once the metal is sufficiently hot to melt in large quantities and then kept in a fairly-well insulated underground location. Moreover, as hypothesized below, thermite reactions may well have resulted in substantial quantities (observed in pools) of molten iron at very high
temperatures – initially above 2,000 °C (3,632 °F)."

Yes, we get the idea that pointing out that no thermite/thermate was used anywhere in the WTC complex is inconvenient to your fantasy. You must understand, however, that the fact that a person is much smarter, more honest, and better informed than you doesn't make him "idiotic."

You have been exposed.

 

[pomeroo]

Beachnut, are you being serious?

Jones clearly says the basements act like insulating ovens that contain the massive amounts of heat released by the thermite. This is an enormous amount of energy that can be contained for weeks due to the massive amounts of molten metal and the huge heat capacity and the fact that is underground. Everyone knows that the thermite reaction only lasts minutes.

Why do you do this? Please explain to me why anyone should take your word for it when you make insanely idiotic claims like these. These ideas are on par with how a 7th grader would think about the situation.

I routinely ask you ignorant liars what you know that the demolition professionals don't. For some reason, I NEVER get an answer.

 

[~enigma~]

The real issue here is that steel was melted.

i thought the subject was Jones hilarious article and not any mythical molten steel. You didn't lie about the subject did you?

 

[DC]

I routinely ask you ignorant liars what you know that the demolition professionals don't. For some reason, I NEVER get an answer.

here you go you irgnorant liar,
we dont have to get big contracts in the USA.........

 

[Newtons Bit]

Has nothing to do with being easy. This is the most difficult thing in the world to cope with. I just don't want to waste my time digging through hundreds of idiotic posts by people like pomeroo to find a sentence or two that actually talks about what is being said in these papers.

So to get back on track, i just pulled a random segment from the paper of Steven E. Jones, and i would like to know what is wrong with the analysis.

"The observer notes that the observed surface of this metal is still reddish-orange some six weeks after 9-11. This implies a large quantity of a metal with fairly low heat conductivity and a relatively large heat capacity (e.g., iron is more likely than aluminum) even in an underground location. Like magma in a volcanic cone, such metal might remain hot and molten for a long time -- once the metal is sufficiently hot to melt in large quantities and then kept in a fairly-well insulated underground location. Moreover, as hypothesized below, thermite reactions may well have resulted in substantial quantities (observed in pools) of molten iron at very high
temperatures – initially above 2,000 °C (3,632 °F)."

Not completely off the topic, but isn't one of the common "Truther" mantras to state that the lattice of steel framing would instantly wick away heat from the fire area due to thermal conductivity? Jones seems to be contradicting that directly.

On the topic, I fail to see how this shows that thermite is a reasonable conclusion to draw. An office fire, like the one that was documented by thousands of photographs and dozens of video recordings, would heat the metal up and if kept in a "fairly-well insulated underground location" would retain heat in the same way that Jones is proposing that thermite would do. There is documented evidence of a fire that was hot enough to melt the aluminum off the side of the towers. There is no such documented evidence that thermite reactions ever took place.

 

[Disbelief]

here you go you irgnorant liar,
we dont have to get big contracts in the USA.........

Would YOU cover up murder for further work? If not, why would you routinely accuse others of doing so?

 

[DC]

Would YOU cover up murder for further work? If not, why would you routinely accuse others of doing so?

welcome to real life, its done every day.........

 

[WildCat]

Since I am an infrequent visitor to this board, please forgive me if the following has already been addressed.

Yes, it has.

For the moment, I'm going to assume that Jones' scenario is correct and from that, I will make the following assumptions:

That's a mighty long limb you're walking out on!

1) These are load bearing columns, since they were targeted for cutting during the building's collapse. And as load bearing columns go, they would experience great amounts of compressive force.

They are load-bearing columns, that's the one of the few things Jones got right.

2) A "thermite cutter charge" gets hot enough to liquefy the steel along the lines of where the cutter charge is placed, over 2500° C.

There's no such thing as a "thermite cutter charge" capable of making those cuts.

Maybe if Dr. Jones had recreated the effects of thermite on a large steel column with a compressive force comparable to supporting a skyscraper, rather than melting a steel coffee cup, we might have a better idea if that picture is an accurate evidence of what he proposes.

There's a simple reason neither Jones nor anyone else in the "truth" movement has done this - it cannot be done.

Jones made up thermite to explain the lack of audio demo charges, but he forgot that thermite cannot cut across a column. It can only cut down.

And finally, the video truthers pretend they don't see:

 

[Disbelief]

welcome to real life, its done every day.........

Really? People cover up mass murder for a paycheck?

You didn't answer the question though, would YOU cover up mass murder for further work?

 

[WildCat]

Stop ignoring the video I posted 3 times in this thread showing cleanup workers cutting the columns you claim was done by thermite.

You said you'd change your mind if shown this evidence, it appears you were lying again.

Why should anyone here bother with you if you ignore facts inconvenient to your fantasy and lie when it suits you?