Merged [Ed] Get involved detecting the ade 651 detector / Jim McCormick arrested

[The Don]

"golfball finding device"?

How many golfers were killed by uncovering explosives when they tried to use this device to locate lost balls?

The "card" allowed it to switch between target types so unless you had the wrong car you'd be absolutely safe (or something like that)

 

[justintime]

It is hard to deny the ade 651 detector is doing a better job than what the US Military uses to detect weapons of mass destruction (WMD). 10 years into Iraq and trillions of dollars spent and no WMD found. The ade 651 detector has a 50/50 chance of detecting what it is programmed for and those are still better odds than what the US was capable of with their technology.

 

[drewid]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/apr/23/somerset-business-guilty-fake-bombs

And down he goes.

 

[Garrison]

It is hard to deny the ade 651 detector is doing a better job than what the US Military uses to detect weapons of mass destruction (WMD). 10 years into Iraq and trillions of dollars spent and no WMD found. The ade 651 detector has a 50/50 chance of detecting what it is programmed for and those are still better odds than what the US was capable of with their technology.

'What it is programmed for'? You realize right it was never programmed for anything? it's claimed method for functioning had more to do with homeopathy than chemistry. Also it's been used as a bomb detector at checkpoints, nothing to do with the search for WMDs.

 

[justintime]

'What it is programmed for'? You realize right it was never programmed for anything? it's claimed method for functioning had more to do with homeopathy than chemistry. Also it's been used as a bomb detector at checkpoints, nothing to do with the search for WMDs.

From wiki: After a substance-specific "programmed substance detection card" is inserted, the device is supposed to swivel in the user's hand to point its antenna in the direction of the target substance.

"The training manual for the device says it can even, with the right card, detect elephants, humans and 100 dollar bills. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8471187.stm

 

[godless dave]

It is hard to deny the ade 651 detector is doing a better job than what the US Military uses to detect weapons of mass destruction (WMD). 10 years into Iraq and trillions of dollars spent and no WMD found. The ade 651 detector has a 50/50 chance of detecting what it is programmed for and those are still better odds than what the US was capable of with their technology.

Not true at all. There were no WMDs, and that's what the US military found - none.

 

[Ladewig]

It is hard to deny the ade 651 detector is doing a better job than what the US Military uses to detect weapons of mass destruction (WMD). 10 years into Iraq and trillions of dollars spent and no WMD found. The ade 651 detector has a 50/50 chance of detecting what it is programmed for and those are still better odds than what the US was capable of with their technology.

where did the 50/50 come from?

You seem to be implying that the Ade651 actually identified half the bombs that were trying to be smuggled past a checkpoint. It did not.
.


ETA: oh and signature line as well.

 

[justintime]

Not true at all. There were no WMDs, and that's what the US military found - none.

List of quotes by senior US officials and others claiming Iraq had WMDs.

WMD, Who Said What and When
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4882.htm

This was all before the invention of the ADE 651. So some other intelligence or technology was used to determine that as a fact before the invasion of Iraq.

 

[Ladewig]

from BBC link

Police intend to pursue McCormick's wealth under the Proceeds of Crime Act.

The 56-year-old currently owns houses in Florida and Cyprus, as well as a yacht, and recently bought film star Nicholas Cage's mansion in Bath.​

A most fascinating turn of events.

 

[Ladewig]

List of quotes by senior US officials and others claiming Iraq had WMDs.

WMD, Who Said What and When
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4882.htm

This was all before the invention of the ADE 651. So some other intelligence or technology was used to determine that as a fact before the invasion of Iraq.

Be careful.
Thread drift is tolerated at the JREF, but if one wanders too far off topic, those posts will be moved to another thread.

 

[justintime]

where did the 50/50 come from?

You seem to be implying that the Ade651 actually identified half the bombs that were trying to be smuggled past a checkpoint. It did not.
.


ETA: oh and signature line as well.

Sandia National Laboratories had carried out testing of several similar devices but found that "none have ever performed better than random chance.

Probability and Statistics Random chance of a tossed penny has a 50-50 chance.

 

[Garrison]

Sandia National Laboratories had carried out testing of several similar devices but found that "none have ever performed better than random chance.

Probability and Statistics Random chance of a tossed penny has a 50-50 chance.

Yeah if you hsd just read a little further you would have seen this(my bold):

During a two-and-a-half-year police investigation, a University of Cambridge professor had conducted a "full double blind trial" of the devices and found the results were no better than random chance. The device was right three out of 25 times.

 

[Garrison]

List of quotes by senior US officials and others claiming Iraq had WMDs.

WMD, Who Said What and When
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4882.htm

This was all before the invention of the ADE 651. So some other intelligence or technology was used to determine that as a fact before the invasion of Iraq.

And as has been pointed out the ADE 651 was nothing to do with WMDs; it was used to detect bombs at checkpoints so please stop the detour. Also I'm not sure sticking a label on a golf ball detector and making up a story about 'magical cards' counts as inventing something.

 

[Pixel42]

Sandia National Laboratories had carried out testing of several similar devices but found that "none have ever performed better than random chance.

Probability and Statistics Random chance of a tossed penny has a 50-50 chance.

Because in the case of a tossed penny, the two possibilities (heads and tails) are equally likely. That is not the case for most of the things this device is claimed to detect. For example if it's scanning for bombs in cars going through a checkpoint, it will only have a 50-50 chance of being right if half the cars contain bombs.

 

[Sherman Bay]

... a golf ball detector...

Correction: a fake golf ball detector.

 

[justintime]

And as has been pointed out the ADE 651 was nothing to do with WMDs; it was used to detect bombs at checkpoints so please stop the detour. Also I'm not sure sticking a label on a golf ball detector and making up a story about 'magical cards' counts as inventing something.

Where did I say the ADE 651 was used to search for WMD? It was invented after the US invasion of Iraq.
According to Iraqi reports.
"The Iraqi Interior Minister, Jawad al-Bulani, also defended the device, telling Al Iraqiya television that the ADE 651 had "managed to prevent and detect more than 16,000 bombs that would be a threat to people's life and more than 733 car bombs were defused."

The gadget found more bombs than what the US were using to find WMD.

 

[Garrison]

Correction: a fake golf ball detector.

I believe the word they used was 'novelty', which is fair enough given that no one will die if you don't find a golf ball...

 

[Garrison]

"The Iraqi Interior Minister, Jawad al-Bulani, also defended the device, telling Al Iraqiya television that the ADE 651 had "managed to prevent and detect more than 16,000 bombs that would be a threat to people's life and more than 733 car bombs were defused."

And of course you're quite happy to take his word for that? Likewise this:

From wiki: After a substance-specific "programmed substance detection card" is inserted, the device is supposed to swivel in the user's hand to point its antenna in the direction of the target substance.

"The training manual for the device says it can even, with the right card, detect elephants, humans and 100 dollar bills. "

Is simply a claim without a shred of hard evidence to back it up and indeed the evidence we have is that the claim is utterly fraudulent.

 

[Agatha]

Since the detector cannot detect bombs or anything else, the Iraqi minister is mistaken in ascribing any success in detecting bombs to the device. It was luck combined with good intelligence and searches which found the bombs and landmines.

I understand next Monday's Panorama programme will be about McCormick, and tonight's Newsnight will cover the story too.

His reaction after the court was disgusting, he had not a shred of remorse that his 'device' did nothing except fill up his bank account, and that fact directly led to deaths and injuries.

 

[justintime]

And of course you're quite happy to take his word for that? Likewise this:



Is simply a claim without a shred of hard evidence to back it up and indeed the evidence we have is that the claim is utterly fraudulent.

Some possible explanations. Fewer bombs were found because the US withdrew from Iraq and the need to plant bombs decreased.

The device was over provisioned/designed to be useful after the war where items other than bombs could be programmed for detection (elephants, dollar bills, skeptics etc.)